Altaros ATP slugs took 1st and 3rd place on Long Range Challenge at the Oregon Event this past weekend shooting 140 to 300 yards.
1st used .25 ATP Smooth 49.5 grain and 3rd was used ATP .22 King 40 grain.

Congrats to winners Tony Pellegrino so also to third place Brad Stevenson. Also congrats to Scott Hull ( Scotchmo) for second place with his custom 7mm buld airgun.

We also want to thank the Centercut team for their trust in our ATP slugs and their public support.

Finally, I would like to thank Airgun Oregon very much for organizing and creating this excellent competition event and for allowing us to participate as a sponsor.
A big thank goes also to Wayne Burns without this competition would not have happened.

If you don't want to read the entire long post, just jump to the Summary section at the end of post

Practically since the beginning of the launch of our CNC turned ATP slugs on the market, we regularly receive questions about the selling price, especially when compared to other slugs produced by a different technology
I'd like to put some information out there on this topic and bring more information rather than answering the same thing over and over again.

Even here on the forum, there is a topic where the higher price of our slugs is discussed, and as the main reason most authors state that it is a unique product that has no competition on the market and that is why the price is higher.

The only part that is true is that it really is a unique product, because apart from us, no one in the world has been producing airgun lead slugs with this technology for more than 5 years. But the reason for the higher price is something else, which I will describe later in the text.

First of all, I would like to introduce the common procedure of pressed slugs or pressed pellets:

The procedure is that a lead wire of a given diameter is made and it is then introduced into a machine, which turns it into ball (pellets) or cylinders of a given length (slugs).
These blanks are then sprinkled into a pressing machine, which turns them into the final projectile.
In most cases, we can talk about the production time of one projectile in the range of 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.

These projectiles are then very often poured directly from the machine containers into a specific package and sent to the customer. Some samples can be taken continuously for control. For example, at JSB, an optical inspection by a worker is included between the production and packaging process, but it is not a standard procedure for all manufacturers.
Often manufacturers also use a harder mixture of lead, which survives simple packaging (pouring into a bag) and even harder transport without damage, but they have disadvantages in difficult insertion into the barrel or the possibility of stuck directly in the barrel at lower outputs (even 45J may not be sufficient output for shot from the barrel).

Now I will describe a very rough process of manufacturing CNC turned slugs (there is no point in trying to ask us about the details, we will never publish them)

The process begins similarly by creating a lead wire of a given diameter. This is where the similarity ends, as this wire is then manually processed by a worker and then transferred to a special single-purpose turning machine that we developed and built ourselves.
The main problem is the softness of lead, which can be damaged by practically anything, for example even with inappropriate manual measurement. I will not mention the next series of problems, but I will go to the most important.
The machining process itself from start to finish, when we get a finished 1 CNC turning ATP slug takes from 15 to 25s according to the type of slug !!!
This means that this process is 15-50 times slower than in the production of pressed slug!!!

An example of the production of CNC monolithic firearms bullets by the most famous manufacturer

The machining time alone (which is far from the end of the whole process) corresponds to the fact that one machine is able toproduce around 4 pcs of ATP 32gr .22 per minute, 240 pcs per hour!

So if you are shooting targeted precision, where it is not a problem to get to a speed of 4 shots per minute, then the same time you spend shooting, the same time the given machine must be in operation and producing slugs!

After the machining itself, each slug is optically inspected by a employee and each slug is measured to see if it meets the required dimensions, and if not, it is discarded. The required dimension must fit within a tolerance in the order of microns (ten thousandths of an inch). Of course, we can never guarantee 100% certainty of the final inspection, but we do our best to do so.

This is followed by the manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed to strengthen the package and limit contact with the atmosphere. If you think that just putting slugs into a foam matrix is a simple and quick matter, you can try it yourself on your ATP slug packaging to see how long it takes. Yes, in theory, it would be possible to invent automatic loading, but you are not sure whether there would be mechanical damage to the slugs
All these steps are necessary to preserve the properties of the slug as it leaves the turning machine, so that they are not damaged during transport or packaging and their properties are not degraded of mechanical damage.
Originally, we wanted to do packaging like other manufacturers do, but we quickly found out that this is not a suitable way to deliver a perfect slug even for the most demanding customers, because it doesn't matter how exactly you make the slugs, if it doesn't reach the customer in this perfect condition.

Summary

Pressed slugs:
- speed of production: 0.5 - 1,2s, i.e. you will make 120-50 pcs per minute , 7200-3000 pcs per hour.
- production control: often checking only random samples, not each individual slug
- packaging: often pouring into the bag directly from the machine's magazine -some manufacturers separated slug in package from itself
- hardness of lead: some manufacturers use hard lead to make it easier to pack the slugs and still not risk much damage during transport

Altaros ATP CNC turned slugs:
- speed of production: 15 to 25s according to the type of slug, 4 pcs of ATP 32gr per minute, 240 pcs per hour !
- production control: optical checked and measured each slug
- packaging: manual insertion of each individual slug into the manufactured foam matrix, which is then manually vacuumed
- hardness of lead: uses almost pure lead for maximum slug softness


We can make a comparison of the most requested oure slugs ATP King 40gr, where the price is 0.15 - 0.18 $ per piece
Again:
similarly heavy FX Hybrid Slugs 44gr, where the price is 0.17 $ per piece. Utah, USA
similarly heavy Patrito slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.13 $ per piece. Krale EU
similarly heavy Zan slugs 40gr, where the price is 0.09 $ per piece. Krale EU

so it can be seen that in some cases ATP King is not even the most expensive slug on the market and when we compare the price of 0.15 $ vs 0.09 $, it is a difference only of 40%.

I then decide for each of you whether we demand a higher price for our unike products that we make 15-50x slower production speed, or on the contrary, some other manufacturers who, unlike us, all use similar production technology are not only using their strong marketing position on the market to sell you a similar slugs at a much higher price, which someone else is able to produce 2-5 cheaper in almost the same quality.

In the firearms ammunition market, it is common for the highest ranges of ammunition intended for the most accurate shooting, where every several % of total bether accuracy is paid dearly, to cost up to 5 times more than the basic range. An example is the top .22 LR ammunition from LAPU or RWS again standard .22 LR.

If we were to compare the price of our production with a similar production, then the closest comparison is this cutting edge 40gr .223 bullets where the price is 0.7 $ per piece, i.e. almost 5 times higher, and at the same time, compared to ours, it is a classic standard machining, of normally machinable materials, for which you can directly buy a CNC machine, you do not have to develop and build it.

Cutting Edge 40gr .223 bullets


I have already been asked by a few people from my surroundings, who are active in the world of CNC machining or have a machining company themselves, whether we are even able to make a profit with such a poor production speed/price ratio. Yes, we are, and it costs us a lot of effort, but it is definitely not the kind of profit you might have imagined before reading this post.

A very long story made short, went into the ER with a heart attack and woke up two days later
In the ICU. I had gone into cardiac arrest while in the hospital and being that I was there when it happened is certainly the only reason I am here today. I was “out” for 23 minutes and spent a lot of time in the hospital.
anyway I am grateful to be alive today. Life is short.

also picking up a new shooting buddy

My .30 cal Red Panda Bench (RPB) is on the way and I wanted to get a thread going to share my setup and test results. The first shipment of .30 cal Benchrest guns are currently available and a shipment of PRS models are expected to arrive in about a month. I will also be snagging a PRS gun in .22 cal. I will report back in a few days when it arrives.

Looking to put together a field target setup. Appreciate any opinions on these two guns and their accuracy. Both are in the same price range.

Thanks...

In my effort to try and find a slug that shoots OK (yeah ive Come to the point that OK has to be good enoug) ive burned through 33, 35, 37and 41gr zans, 33,49gr KO and KO mk2, NSA 43.5gr and some wildmans. That being said, I can get them to group well at 54m, but when I try out to 104m its a shotgun, the speeds are from 950 to 1020 with steps around 5-10fps.
Today i was fed up again and turn down the reg to 100bar and shot some king heavys (i know they shoot good in this M3) and to my supprise i actually shot 10 shots within 5cm at 104m (there was no Wind at all). But when the leaves was slightly moving the shots started to throw off and I was Just thinking this would have been alot more forgiving with slugs. So now I am thinking maybe try 28gr and the new 26.5gr mk2 from zan to see if lighter slugs Will work.
What do you guys think?
M3 700mm tension heavy liner

For sale an FX Crown sythetic stock hydro dipped bt Utah Airguns. $150 shipping included. Paypal, Zelle.

NLA

Greetings, colleagues in arms!

Has anyone tried out the new product from KalibrGun Snipe?

If there are such guys, write about your experience and operating conditions (caliber, barrel length)

Thank you

Andrew

@SMH

I am dedicating my L2 setup for all around tool, backyard defence up to 20M but also for 50 M target rings in my club.

I am looking for a pair of pellets that shall work well with same Reg and same dope card for both application.

I have tried these pairs, rings up to 50 M and pesting below 10 M. I have all of these weights below and time is up for me to prepare for hords that started visiting my walnut trees.

16 gn - AirArms Diablo Field and JSB Hades works pretty consistent, but when the air starts moving in the open space nomore shooting rings.
18 gn - AirArms Diablo Field Heavy or HN Baracuda needs a slight detune for HN Baracuda Hunter. Still the air movements nerve wrecking in open space.
21 gn - HN Baracuda would be my choice for outdoor rings, handels the air movement pretty decent, but not seeing what to pair with for pesting?
25 gn - JSB MRD, yes works well up to 50 M rings even with air movement, but I would stay away from this weight for pesting considering safety.

So, my goal is not to tweak the Reg all the time for best POI. Because yes, there is a difference between +/- 20 fps.

Looking to sell a Omega Trail Charger Compressor manufactured by Raptor Pneumatics and from Airguns of Arizona, the US distributor for Omega Compressors.

Omega Trail Charger 4500psi Portable 12V Air Compressor

• 12V Power
• 110V Inverter Included
• 4500 psi Output
• Easy Adjust Pressure Shutoff
• Water and Air Cooled
• Self-Sufficient Portable Design
• Manual Moisture Bleed

This compressor has a very low overall run time and has been taken care of and in great condition. It can run off a regular outlet in your home or from a car battery. It has a built in water cooling system, grease pot for internal lubrication, and replaceable burst disk. This is one of the more higher quality portable compressors that use a dual cooling system and has an automatic shutoff at the designated pressure. It can refill tanks as long as the unit is allowed to cool.

They sell for $839.99 + shipping from AOA

I will sell this for $700 SHIPPED (in a very sturdy box and packaged well) Price is negotiable.

For sale is the .22 cal Taipan Veteran Long. This is in mint condition. Green laminate stock with absolutely NO scratches or blemishes. It features an extended plenum for power tuning(done by Talon Tunes). It shoots slugs and pellets great with its CZ barrel. 1/2x20 muzzle with thread protection can accept your favorite LDC or moderator. JSB 25.39gn shot consistently at 935fps home in hole at 50 yards. Comes with 2 magazines with onboard mag holder. Fill probe and fill probe holder also included.Also an added cheek comb has been installed. Paid $1,875.00 but selling for $1,000.00 or reasonable offer. Buyer pays shipping. Will include a hard case if needed and 1 tin of 25.39gn JSB Redesigns and Knockouts and 1 tin of JSB 18.39gn. Believe me I know what this rifle is worth and it’s not sentimental value being considered. It has one of the best triggers I’ve ever put my finger on.

In very good condition. Mechanically sound (tracking, turrets, magnification etc work as they should). Some scratches in the finish, shown below. Model number 26015, MOA-2 non-illuminated reticle. 2nd owner, & I do not have the factory box.

$275 shipped CONUS, PP F&F or USPS money order. Not interested in trades.

I have several sets of scope rings that I am not going to ever use, most are new and unused.

Small Print:: Just select the letter of the pair you want. PM me your selection, attach your address and Ill throw them in a padded envelope and mail them off to you. Ill strike that letter off the available list until they are all gone. This is first come, first choice.

Throw me a few bucks for shipping and we are all happy!

E & I, F & G, A & B, H, C & D, J are taken and removed from the list.

Rings are in the wind!


K

L

So far I'm not that disappointed in it - I'll do some more testing tomorrow but ran a few mags through it and not bad.

Cycling is smoother than I thought it would be - I was expecting your typical AEA crap quality, it's not refined but it's not their usual crap either.

Magazines are the typical AEA Plastic pieces of shyte. my 308gr slugs are 0.75" and it pretty much maxes out the depth - so I'm thinking max depth to be 19mm or 20mm max.

************* This is unfortunate - magazine unseats sometimes while pumping - so while trying to cycle the next round, magazine pops out and you can't rack it forward. Happened a couple times now. Will see if this keeps happening.

***** Finding #2 - looks like the stupid Fin on the "buttplate" is now loose after 6 mags. There is literally no space in there to fit ANY kind of hex wrench - a hex BIT barely and i mean barely fits in there.

15" .45 Megalodon -

I only filled to 3,000 PSI, so 8 shots brought me down from 3k to 2k. 308gr slugs

I guess my initial post was confusing for some folks so, I'm editing for clarity. This is NOT the Sidewinder Mini. It's a standard length Sidewinder that I had the barrel machined 2.5 inches shorter and crowned (my thought process was, it's not a mini...it's not standard length...I'll call it a compact). The same machine shop rethreaded the gauge ports as well. I apologize for any confusion...

I'm selling my .25 cal Sidewinder, as pictured. I shot a magazine through it prior to modifying it and then, another magazine through it after the modifications. It's pretty low mileage. I shortened it 2.5 inches and retreaded the gauge ports for 1/8 BSP to accommodate the Sekhmet gauges. I'm selling it as pictured with the Vortex scope, DFL moderator, Hogue grip, Magpul rail cover, Steiner laser/light, bipod, and whatever else you see that I'm forgetting at the moment. I'm having trouble locating the original soft case that came with it so, it included the case pictured. Also, it will come with the factory shroud and moderator pictured as well as the charging cabled for the gauges. The Vortex is new and I have the box and literature for it as well but, none of that for the Steiner. I installed the hair roller type "moderator" thingies around the barrel toward the bottom of the shroud. The moderator adapter is DFL and was a limited run he put out a while back.

There are a couple hard to notice marks (near rear gauge, optics mounting mark on the rail, by the regulator, and some wear on the Steiner from it being on a pistol in a former life) that could be easily touched up or "sharpied" a little better than my quick attempts. Anyway, it comes as pictured. Although the other moderators are for sale as well, they are not included in this listing...I just forgot to clear the bench before taking pictures. Only the one on the gun is included.

I'll take 2k for the entire package on Paypal F&F plus $45 shipping to the lower 48. Kelly at Krazkool gave me permission to list him as a reference that I'm a real person and honest in his experience however, he cannot vouch for the gun since he's not handled it. Thanks for looking and, this is my first sale post so, my apologies if I jacked it up. Oh yeah, I'm in Missouri...north of KC about 45 minutes if someone wanted to pay cash and pick it up.

Hi all,

I just ordered the 0db 160S .30 moderator from AOA. It will go on my incoming Benjamin Gunnar .25 riffle. Please let me know if there is anything I need to watch out for with this moderator. Thanks.

So got a beautiful /Benjamin Cayden few mon. ago. got scope rings, mod.....you know the drill! very excited to receive .finally put together ,and got out into the woods. beautiful walnut wood, excellent trigger , deep dark bluing......gorgeous. had been studying and found out i could cut down hammer spring to 2.8 inchs. for 80 + shots around 850 fps.....STOKED! Sat down against a tree, shooting off knee, which i'm wont to do, commenced to shooting ..... 2 pellet size groups at 32 yds. kept going into same very small hole! superb accuracy!!!
Pretty much in love at this point......BUT you know when you shoulder a rifel and it just feels right? I just could not get it to fit my arms shoulders. the length of pull just doesnt fit....period!!!
Question to you good sirs???? was thinking of finding someone to cut off about 2 inchs of the stock and re attach the but pad? do you guys know anyone capable and worthy? dont have alot of money to spend and got a great deal on this rifle. should i try to fix, or just sell and find one that fits. love the rifel ,but just does not fit! any advice thoughts ,and input GREATLY APPRECIATED as i'm kind of bummed and torn between trying to get fixed, or selling ? thank you

Built my pellet trap target today

Looking to part with my FX Crown VP. Purchased from UA Christmas of 2022. Single owner.

Synthetic Stock

380mm .22 Barrel - STX Superior 1:24 Twist

Comes with 1 Mag

Case not included

Current tune , Velocity is maxing out at 915-920fps with 18gr FX pellets.

Small scratch on shroud(pictured)
light scratch on bottle(pictured)

Asking $750 shipped CONUS.

Pay pap FF please or usps Money order. Will ship after it clears.

Please PM if interested.

Beautiful safe queen. No regulator,no leaks, no problems. Scope and mounts not included. Anthony Story direct fit moderator and 3 factory magazines are included. Has Best fittings foster fill upgrade. 850.00 shipped conus.

Okay folks, I now have access to a fully stocked machine shop, we have mills with DROs (Bridgeport & clones), lathes (South bend, Logan, Acer dynamic), cnc 3 axis converted knee mill , tormachs (pro slant), millport CNC lathe, vertical bandsaws, horizontal band saws, and all the accessories you could imagine, collets, chucks, drills, toe clamps, vises, rotary tables, dividing heads, turning tools, end mills, etc

Here’s my question for all of you-> Of course I’m working on the fundamentals right now (seeing how perfectly square I can get a piece of bar stock, speeds and feeds, etc). But what would be some fun Airgun related projects you’d recommend (or good general starters) Here’s my current list:

• ***EDITED***DO NOT POST ABOUT MODIFICATIONS TO MODERATORS OR LDC ***-
• An adjustable height & length widget to put between my SI folding stock and the shoulder pad so it sits right. I think this will just be some thin bar stock with the center milled out and I’ll just use nuts and bolts to secure the pieces that allow for y and z axis (from user’s perspective) adjustments.
• Air tube to pic adapter for the GK1. Practice boring and slotting.
• Speed loaded for rattler, still taking shape in my mind but thinking every time you rotate the mag it pushes a lever/pin that allows for another slug/pellet to drop in. It would be gravity fed.
• Collapsing stock for GK1. Much more difficult. In my mind I’m envisioning 2 parallel square/rect tubes that have solid square/rect bars inside which are spring loaded that when a button is depressed a latch is unlocked and the stock shoots backwards. Then using notches on the inner bar it essentially locks in place (can’t be pushed back in) when the notches reach a cut out in the tube. The stock can be collapsed by depressing the notches back into the tube then pushing the bar back in which again compresses the internal spring and locks back into the forward notch.
• Extra mags for select fire Evanix, will probably need to use CNC to hit the dimensions.

Thank you!

I didnt include a poll because I'm 98% sure it would be overwhelmingly Notos based on existing threads.

That said, I'd like to do a comparison pros/cons of each one before making a decision. I get that they're both basically the same thing, but I'm looking for the interesting differences between them.

For reference, I'm looking for a 30-35 yard plinker that is a small carbine style for my kiddo, and can be fun for me too as a bit of pistol. Something that has some fun customization options. Most importantly is the potential to be a bottle gun for max plink between refills.

pp750 differences (that i consider a plus):
comes in .177
right hand lever

What do y'all got as notable differences in the platform as to why one should be chosen over the other?

I couldn’t wait for the FX Walnut stocks and I had a little different idea of what I wanted my stock to look like . I have a GRS Dreamline which I I love the feel in hand every time I pick it up. But once you set the length of pull and the height of the comb it pretty much never gets changed for hunting purpose’s. I had a special curly maple stock blank I was given by a deceased friend that I was waiting for the right gun to stock with it. I laid out the pattern using elements of the GRS grip and the DRS cheek pad shape. Unfortunately when cutting away the perimeter I cut on the wrong line at the top of the forearm. I cut the line which represented the bottom of the barrel. Oh well I wasn’t going to throw this wood away so I glued it back the best I could and moved on. Inletting this action and barrel was so easy compared to most rifle actions being that it was all straight parallel lines, perfect to do in my vertical milling machine. I had it all done in about 3 hours. But next came the shaping. I used a grinding tool with an aggressive cupped wheel from Harbor Freight. Man that thing removes wood fast. The hardest thing I found in the whole process was final sanding. Maple wood is light in color so it does not show scratches . I had to stain it to reveal them and it took me along time of sanding to finally get them out. I left a reveal of 1/4” past the plentum which gives the rifle a look like a Rigby big bore rifle. I’m going to 3 D print or machine a floor plate for it . Im hoping that a medium size plentum is made for this platform . it is amazing how this stock has transformed this rifle from the synthetic stock . It looks and handles so differently. The wood was a soft silver maple which is light in weight. It only added 4 ounces over the synthetic stock. I used the recoil pad from the original stock. I’ll probably do a stippling pattern on the forearm later to hide the cement line along with something in the grip as well. These pictures are with only two coats of an oil finish. It will get another four or five more to properly fill to a glass smooth satin finish.