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Mythbusting Precision BR

I'm making this thread to address some of the misconceptions that inexperienced shooters have when they come to their first N50 or USARB type precision BR match ...or when they first get acquainted with an experienced and accomplished precision air BR shooter. Clubs can exist where all of the shooters at the club are inexperienced and they are usually very happy shooting with each other until an experienced shooter shows up and upsets the established balance. The experienced shooter will usually have much more specialized equipment and it will be the first thing to come under the lens of the inexperienced.



What am I referring to when I say specialized equipment?



I'm talking about things that make life easier for the precision shooter. One of the main items in this category is the rest setup. New shooters often use items like sand bags or bipods to support the rifle because they are things they already have or can at least obtain with a low investment cost. The low cost items are fully able to support a rifle properly to make an accurate shot, but lack the ability to easily move to the next bull without a lot of wiggling, squeezing, and general fiddling to get the crosshair aligned and gun settled for the next shot. Here is where the mechanical front rest comes in to play. With a mechanical front rest....you can simple turn a knob or move a joystick to position yourself at the next bull. The accuracy of the gun is not improved in any way over the more modest means of support , but the convenience factor is improved dramatically. Will this improved convenience factor result in better scores? Maybe, if you are an inexperienced shooter. The reason for this is because you will be less likely to take a shot before you are optimally positioned or before the rifle is properly settled. An experienced shooter can shoot the same scores with the low budget items....but since precision BR is something they do a lot of....they don't want to.



Next up is the one piece rest vs the two piece setup. The consensus among people that have no experience with the one piece in air rifle BR is that it will surely produce higher scores. They mostly think that because some disciplines have rules that exclude the one piece setup and they apply the standard logic of thinking that if something is not allowed it is because it's unfair to anyone that doesn't have it. Most all of the rules in Precision Air Rifle BR were borrowed from established centerfire or rimfire disciplines that existed long before air. The air rifles used in precision air BR are rather anemic compared to even a 22lr rimfire rifle. The leading air rifles in n50 are about 1/2 the power of 22lr. The rifles used in usarb are yet another small fraction of that. There is no performance improvement in a one piece rest vs a two piece in precision air rifle BR. Anyone that claims there is has surely not tested that claim in a proper manner. If you shoot higher scores with a one piece it's probably because you haven't figured out how to properly set up a two piece or are simply careless when doing so. Maybe you have a bind somewhere creating a torque or you are not careful about your bag spacing or something else. Once you set up a one piece you really don't have to think about it again. I prefer a one piece because I can make the trip to and from the bench in one less trip. Rifle in one hand and rest in the other. If I use a two piece I have to make an extra trip. I also like the more rearward position of the elevation and windage controls. I made a thread a while back on my slug gun comparing the scores of a series of cards shot from both my one and two piece setup. Although I actually shot more xs off the 2 piece, they scores were identical. If I had shot 100 cards off each, there would be no significant difference unless I got sloppy on my setup. The 2 piece that runs on sand bags is actually easier to find a good setup using my slug gun than the one piece that uses hard rest points. Some one piece rests have no provision for adjusting the spacing between the front and rear rest points and are completely unsuitable with my slug gun that needs a specific spacing to shoot well. In N50...we made no rules about rest. This was because the guys that made the rules are experienced precision air rifle BR shooters and know there is no actual accuracy advantage to any of the setups in air rifle. Disallowing something would only serve to inconvenience the dedicated guys that keep the game going. The inexperienced guys come and go. Most people will never stay in the game long enough to be competitive.



Tethering is another subject that comes under false judgement. Some new shooters believe that there is somehow a score advantage to tethering your rifle to a big tank. The advantage is that you don't have to refill your rifle and can shoot all day without worrying about that. I've heard many say that they wish they could tether but can't afford the expense of an external regulator. Well, guess what? You don't need an external regulator to tether a gun with an internal regulator. All you need is an external tank that has a higher pressure than your internal regulator....but not higher than the safe fill limit of your rifle. If you can fill your rifle to 250 bar....then you can tether a 250 bar external tank and shoot until the pressure in the big tank goes below the internal regulator pressure. Everything you need to do this is already owned by pretty much every pcp owner. Don't expect your scores to go up when you start tethering unless you were prone to shooting below your internal regulator pressure, before. Your enjoyment factor will increase, though.



How about remote triggers? Man, those things are so unfair. Let's look at the reality of this for a bit. First off, we should examine the top scores and see what kind of trigger system they used. In the pellet class, all of the top club scores and national champions used a mechanical trigger. Wait, how can this possibly be? Well, it's clearly because it doesn't actually provide an accuracy advantage over operating a mechanical trigger on the rifle. The guns that have the remote trigger (Thomas) are the same guns that have the mechanical triggers that have shot higher scores.... by the very same people. In reality the remote trigger guns are equally as accurate...but certainly not more accurate. The remote triggers are a convenient way of firing the gun from a comfortable position. That's the big advantage....however, that big advantage doesn't show up on the target.



Lastly, we have the very common "he's not even touching the gun" comment. This one is hard to figure out because anyone can decide to not touch their gun if they want to. Often the first comment is followed up with something about how if the shooters cheek, hands, and shoulder isn't on the gun than they aren't really shooting it. In BR....There are no extra points for someone that hangs on to their rifle. There are no points deducted from someone that doesn't. The game of precision BR was invented to showcase the most accurate rifles. The job of the shooter is to manage his equipment and read the wind to make the best holdoff.... which will make the most of the rifle...every shot. Air rifle BR is not about who can hold the rifle still and interact with it the most. The guys that have the most accurate rifles and the best wind reading skills win...always.



N50 could change the rules to disallow mechanical rests, remote triggers, tethering...and require the shooter to make cheek, shoulder, and hand contact with the gun. This could possibly attract a bunch of new shooters. The problem is that the exact same guys with the exact same rifles will still be at the top of the leaderboard...and eventually the new shooters will figure that out and leave anyway. Most people don't stay very long in precision BR because it's very difficult to be competitive with those that have put in the effort. That's the bottom line.



If you don't compete in precision BR because you don't have the fancy support equipment and believe that you cannot be competitive without it....you are not seeing the real picture. If you stay in the game long enough to become competitive...you will come to the realization that everything I've written above is spot on.



Mike

I'll try to keep it humorous but I just need to complain.

Since this is me complainimg about a brand I am not going to put it in feedback. I just need y'all to be my counselor, teacher, priest, dad, whatever. Just listen to me beech about this and I will feel much better.
Here we go

American Defense Accu-tac? Accu-tec? Whatever. Please ..... screw them .....shoes in better! Lol

$500, or there abouts, on the newer F-class bipod and I need new tires on it a month later. Less than 100 shots and I lost a rubber footy in the woods.

Now there is a man who has done a better job than I ever could ripping a company for something similar. And he spent $900.


Thermals and LRF

Not sure if this is just my opinion, but after a week of watching countless videos on thermal monoculars, and scopes from different companies like AGM, Pulsar, Mileseey, and ATN. I believe ALL thermal scopes should come with LRF. It doesn't make sense to not have it, I understand a monocular having it as an option as you could be use a monocular for whatever you want, not every that wants to see things clearly at night wants to hunt. But everyone looking for a thermal scope is 100% looking to hunt or perform pest control.

CGA347 Valve?

Has anyone disassembled one of these? If so, is there a way to make it so you don't have to push in on it to open and Close? I have noticed that when I want to shut it off in a Hurry that if it's not just right, it locks up until you get it in the right groove to turn? lol Or would it rquire replacing it with a different Valve?

PCP Rifle  NLA MUST SELL Benjamin Armada .22 Semi Auto package

Barely shot includes everything to get started and more.

This Benjamin Armada Semi Automatic in .22 cal, equipped with a Hawke Airmax 30 SF 6-24 scope, fitted with suppressor and includes a brand new never used hand pump, 3 magazines, all manuals and spares.

Super reliable, the semi auto is amazingly fast for followup shots, this shoots super accurately and with the sidewinder stop it is fast to focus at different distances.

The rifle is less than a year old, I prefer shooting my FX airgun so this has just been kept in my gun safe.

$1000 OBO

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Hatsan  Have I Created The World's Ugliest Air Rifle?

Printed a tactical stock and purchased a butt stock. Main body of the stock (red) took 5 or 6 printings before I got the right material and printer combination (HS Petg on the Flashforge 5M). The grip was 3 printings (TPU 98A). The tube was just PLA.

The body has some weak spots, mainly the trigger guard. I may look into beefing that up.

Overall it seems sturdy enough and is about 16 oz lighter than the Hatsan stock. Could have saved a bit more with a non adjustable butt stock.

But thar is one ugly rifle, which to be honest was one of the objectives.

Got one uglier?

Air Guns and Cancer up date

Morning all, I posted a few years back about my diagnoses of stage four pancreatic cancer in August of 2021 during the pandemic. Dr. gave me less then six months to live. Well after over ninety rounds of chemo and the hardest battel I ever fought as of the last scan Dr. say I'm am for now CANCER FREE. I have a few side effects from all the chemo, bad neuropathy in both hands and feet and Im now on a feeding tube, both a small price for the gift of life. I've been an air gunner for over fifty years and had collected a lot of air guns but when I thought I was a goner I went on a tear and bought every air gun I ever lusted after. Well I now have a lot of guns, scopes and stuff I can post about. I thought about selling some and I might but they all helped me get through a lot. I have a 20 yard range in my back yard and would shoot on my good days but there where days when I couldn't even get out of bed. Well now that I feal among the living Im having a ball shooting all these guns. I'm mostly a spring gun guy but now have lots of PCP and for air supply my son works for a company that supply's breathable air so I have a unlimited supply, life is good. I can hope that my post well give some of you who are fighting your own battle to have hope and never give up. Well enough for now POTPIE out.

Other  Helium vs air shot power comparison for a .22 Notos

While at my local propane supplier recently I noticed that they had 50cf and 100cftanks of compressed (1800psi) 'Balloon grade' for sale or rent. Back in the 1980s, I tested the increase in shot power for different airguns when run on Helium compared to air for posting on the old Yellow Forum. The relatively recent development of high-power PCPs with adjustable regulators and variable power bypasses most of the motivation for increasing airgun shot power by using Helium. But I was still curious to see if using Helium in a friend's regulated .22 Notos carbine would significantly increase the shot power compared to using air.

Here are some test results for the velocity and FPE for 12 kinds of pellets, tested with air and then with Helium. The actual % power increase resulting from using Helium depends on the specific brand of pellet. On average the power gains were roughly in the 40% range (from ~20fpe on air up to~27fpe on Helium). That's a modestly substantial power increase for are relatively low power carbine like the Notos which has limited options for power adjustment.

The topic of Helium has come up many times on different airgun forums over the years. I've rarely seen any actual power curve tables posted with test results for different pellets in different airguns though and wanted to post the results as a reference for anyone searching the forum for Helium. Even though commercial cylinders of Helium were only available in 1800psi (50cf) and 2200psi (100cf) cylinders, it was simple enough to feed low-pressure Helium directly into the intake port on a compressor for 300+ BAR.

It would probably be more interesting to see some air vs Helium power comparisons in the unregulated Huben GK1 pistols at different settings on the power adjustment control. Especially for the Shortened version of the .25 GK1 pistol, which is easier to carry and holster than the standard full-length GK1, but also has a somewhat reduced power output on air compared to the full-sized GK1. It would involve considerably more power tests than on a Notos due to the lack of a regulator and very high gas flow through the GK1 at higher power settings. However, it would also be very interesting to know if a shortened GK1 run on Helium would produce a significantly higher maximum shot power than a standard GK1 run on air. At least for the first few highest-power shots after recharging which people always seem to focus on when posting their 'maximum power produced' results.

JP

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PCP Rifle  SOLD Sumatra Carbine.25cal $300

Sumatra Carbine .25 cal $300 okay condition, great shooter with lots of power , has some wear from use , but great collection airguns , hard to find now , Has a leak coming from fill nipple , I dont work on airguns at all , not my thing , will consider a trade for just about anything AirForce and 22cal on up, located in Texas, 254 fourtwofour 88oneseven.
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  • Question
moderator / suppressor ? How many decibels do they decrease the report on a break barrel air rifle ?

What is a reasonable decrease in the report from a break barrel rifle using a moderator / suppressor ? I have a UMAREX .177 black hawk , sounds like a 22 rim-fire . I live in a residential area and I am worried that I am going to freak out the neighbors . Also will I have to use taller scope mounts with a suppressor ?

  • Question
FX  FX Impact Mk2: Pop after removing air cylinder

A few months ago I purchased a used Impact Mk2 (.25 cal) with the old Power Plenum and Huma air regulator. The gun shot well and had no major problems until recently. When I tried to increase the regulator pressure from 160 to 180 bar to shoot heavier slugs, the needle on the fx regulator pressure gauge wouldn't move at all. After loosening the regulator screw half a turn, I stopped increasing the pressure and let the gun sit for a while. The needle was still at 160 and nothing had changed. After bleeding the airgun, I set the regulator pressure back to its original position, refitted the air cylinder (filling pressure about 200 bar) and left it untouched overnight. The next day I unscrewed the air cylinder to see what was going on, but there was a continuos resistance to it half the way on the thread. Just before unscrewing the cylinder, I suddenly heard a loud crack like a popping balloon or blown seal from the gun.
After screwing the bottle back on, I checked the pressure gauge on the back regulator valve and it showed a fill pressure of about 100 bar, even the bottle pressure gauge was still about 200 and the regulator was set to 160.

I disassembled the gun and checked all the common seals, but could not find anything unusual. After reassembly, I turned the regulator set screw all the way in and attached the air cylinder. While slowly releasing air into the empty plenum via the regulator set screw, I heard hissing and air coming out of the muzzle, which stopped after the set screw was backed out enough. Even with pressure building up, the regulator gauge remained at 0. I replaced the gauge with a Wika gauge and was able to increase the pressure to previous settings (air still escaping when too slowly released into the plenum). I also found that the bottle valve was leaking slightly when left unscrewed and ordered a new valve as well.

What could possibly be the source of the loud bang, should I be worried or was it just the pressure gauge blowing up?
How can unscrewing a airbottle cause something to blow up in a airgun? (Using only silicon based airgun lubricants)
Is the airleak from the barrel normal on low pressure when refilling an empty plenum? (I checked all O-rings on the valve house/ valve stem no apparent damages)

PCP Rifle  SOLD Gen 1 Maruader 357 action

B&M big bore breech
16.5" TJ barrel .357
- carbon fiber sleeved
- 1/2 UNF adapter
Don Cothran powerhouse valve
RAI drop block
RAI 5/8-18 bottle adapter (M18x1.5 also available at NewEnglandAirgins)

Comes with the factory fill valve and cap.
Will come will all my 357 ammo as well.

Capable of 150+ FPE

$250 shipped


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PCP Rifle  SOLD WTT for a western sidewinder .35 or .45🤣

Ok so I doubt tbere are any .45 sidewinders on the used market, so I’ll settle for the .35. Would also consider new Benjamin bulldog M version in 35 or 45

I have a few options to trade. If interested in 1 or both, we can discuss to figure out trade parameters.

$1100 shipped with savior soft case: First is a Edgun Matador R5M, wood stock with a Bat moderator. Only issue I’ve noticed is the pressure gauge is like 10 BAR off from what my compressor says.

Sold Second is a 2022 Huben K1 with black stock and tanto moderator. Great shape and shoots slugs the best.

Both are .25 caliber.

Also have a NF NX8 2-20 F1 MOAR reticle I’d be willing to trade. I have a few other scopes I could work in as well (Trijicon credo 2.5-10, Optisan 4-16, Leupold VX6HD 3-18x50 in NF rings, Kahles k525-1 LSW SKRM4 in ARC mount).

Will post photos tonight or tomorrow. Message me if you want to work out a trade.

I might also consider other rifles but I’m really leaning towards the sidewinder. Not interested in AEA or similar right now. Would need to be be capable (safely) at LEAST 150FPE and some type of repeater.

Thanks for reading

  • Locked
The actual interpretation of our crazy air gun laws. The reason the answers are so twisted and hard to interpret is because our air gun laws are

This is the full interpretation of airgun laws and regulations in Canada. I debated coming online to answer this question. First of all. Law enforcement has absolutely no understanding of our gun regulations. By law enforcement i mean city police RCMP any law enforcement personnel. I'm only saying this one time. So tell all your friends. All airguns rifles pistols markers home defense paintball. 500 + fps / 5.7 j PAL 500- fps no limit for FPE. 400 joules no pal. Period. Both thresholds must be met. You can have a airgun shoot a cannon ball at 495 fps and the energy is unlimited. Crazy isn't it. But once over 500 fps energy is capped at 5.7 joules. That is how it is period in a Court of law.

Traditional Rifle  SOLD Walther LG55 Tyrolean with DS Trigger

Price has been reduced. This rifle is super accurate, exceptional condition internally and externally. Reblued, Maccari tune kit (spring, tophat and spacer). Vortek piston seal adapter with seal, and JM lubes.I just did the chronoy; velocity is 570 fps avg. Asking $1300. Free shipping CONUS. Will be shipped in a hard rifle case. I'm on the Old Yellow Forum BOI with all A++ transactions for the past 35 years and the Airgun Nation Forum with all A++ transactions. Will take more photos if desired.
I'm selling because I want to buy the new Excalibur RevX Crossbow.

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HW/Weihrauch  Rainy day with the HW97

It rained for the first time in months. The wind blew. I had my heart set on shooting the "Ol' 97" today but decided to do a couple projects in the shop with it instead.

I made a new little cleaning block that doubles as a breech seal saver.

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A safety block for cleaning. You can flip it around for breech seal replacement.

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And to prop the comp tube open a bit in storage...

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I also made a little grip shoe for it. It's really narrow in the grip and It was annoying. I was always up to my second knuckle in the trigger guard. Now the trigger is under my finger when the gun is in my hand...

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