HW 85 VS HW 77

[beerthief]

I have a HW97k tuned ,and it will do a ragged hole at 40 Yards (my home range) i am sure it will do the same out to 55 yd. SO why would i get a 77 ? So i was looking at the 85 But no sales in USA.

 

[beerthief]

Dang, no takers?! What are the mechanical differences between the 97 and 77? I have about 100 shots through the 97 long I just got and am really starting to love it. About to go out and put some more through it. Wondering if the 77 shoots differently enough that I should look for one.

My 458 is in the shop trying to get 520 or so out of it

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Ok guys sorry for the ”End of debate comment” I meant it as figure of speech rather than wanting to close out the discussion….Of course i would not want to do that.

When tuning these guns for many years, the first variants of the HW85 had the same solid threaded trigger receiver unit of its heavier duty cousins, but threaded into a slimmer walled cylinder.
You sure had to be careful to not cross thread, as it was not nearly so robust. So much so, that it later got dropped for the later slide in, non threaded receiver. Not nearly so nice.
They also dropped the raised rail, which put the scope mounts too high high for some shooters liking, and often left some de-frazing issues where the holes broke through into the inner cylinder.
Its thinner wall cylinder never damped out as much recoil as its heavier cousins.
The heft and recoil killing nature was just not as good as the muzzle heavy HW77 even in its K version.
The static barrel under controlled tests, saw a HW77 edge a HW80, even if i preferred the convenience of the HW80.…and no barrel adjusting issues of course.
This test was not compared with an 85, but we have to acknowledge the jaws of the 80 were more massive than the 85.

As a hunter rig, yeah sure you might prefer the lighter build and break barrel convenience…but better gun than HW77….a tour de force in build, perfect compression parameters and muzzle heavy balance..
First choice tune by all the leading tuning houses for good reason.

Very informative Steve. As usual. Thank you.

 

[beerthief]

Although i prefer break barrels, there is little doubt the HW77 was a much better gun than the 85.
End of discussion.
I have tuned dozens of both to know the difference.
At that time, the HW77 was the Goto for FT, where it destroyed all of the competition for 5 years, which certainly included the 85 and the 80.
Nothing could touch it. Even today, few would argue that even the 97 is clearly better than its 77 cousin…a gun itself, often touted as the best Springer air rifle of all time….Marginal better underlever operation and catching perhaps.

The only real Challenge to this is that posed by the TX200, but its loading port making it less easy to load, and the noisy anti bear spoils it for the hunting option, if not FT…
I also argue the Rekord trigger is easier to tune to total perfection.

MY lefty TX200 tuned should be here next week , what intrigued me was the long barrel and supposedly smooth shooting of the 85.

 

[crowski]

I have 2 85’s, .177, .22 and 3 77’s, .177, .22 and .25. Love them all but partial to break barrels.
I moved a 77 and put a 85 under to compare size, tried to keep barrel block same position but 77 1/2 inch back.

Crow

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Well beef.... If its a gun your interest in its krales . They offer the lux and a std. Stock but not the k. ( Seems if wanting a k may as well just go with a 95 anyway). To try the longet barrel of one. Or it the same ol same ol what your allowed in the usa stores / another 95..lol

 

[Steveoo]

I have a dear friend that is basically stuck home alone, on a walker and he just lost his wife. He loves to shoot pellets indoors and thinks he can handle a HW30 that I’m bringing him. I can tell you that he would not agree that that a HW97/77 is a better gun. Like Mo-Ron is saying, different people have different needs. ”Better” is relative. AGN is and has been a good place for objective facts. Giving subjective opinion is fine to but should not be confused with the other.

Yes, i accept the argument. He should buy what is better for him.
I might have been coming at this from a purely mechanical, purist perspective.
Its testimony to how good the 85 is that we are having the discussion in the first place.
I still got it right up there bytheway.

 

[beerthief]

a picture say a 1000 words , thanks Crowski is that an ambi stock ?

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Lux stocks are ambidextrous ,standard stocks are not/ right handed. his is a standard in that picture.

In the link i have earlier seems hw break barrels they show are now kinda all luxus stocked . I wonder if there discontinuing the standard stocks for the lux's ambidextrous ?

 

[Steveoo]

My listing based on hands on tuning of the lot…
HW97/HW77 barely enough difference to spit on and the greatest number of FT wins between them.
TX200 slightly bettered by the above due its annoying Anti Bear and slightly lesser trigger…but still superb.
HW80 …Its tour da force of strength and weight can marginally whip any break barrel when tuned.
HW85 a lesser, lighter built 80 …The later ones were better quality controlled than the following pair.
HW98 You can get marginally more out of one than its 95 cousin.

Its the same order that VMach put them when tuning..

 

[crowski]

a picture say a 1000 words , thanks Crowski is that an ambi stock ?

Had to go down and look. No it’s not. Not much of a rise. A piece of leather would do the job. I think deerstalker has on his. Looks awesome. Sucks to be a right handed shot. Didn’t realize you were so limited. Crow

 

[beerthief]

Had to go down and look. No it’s not. Not much of a rise. A piece of leather would do the job. I think deerstalker has on his. Looks awesome. Sucks to be a right handed shot. Didn’t realize you were so limited. Crow

yup lefty only , well i suppose i could shoot righty buy never was any good at righty

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Lux stocks are ambidextrous ,standard stocks are not/ right handed. his is a standard in that picture.

In the link i have earlier seems hw break barrels they show are now kinda all luxus stocked . I wonder if there discontinuing the standard stocks for the lux's ambidextrous ?

I’m a lefty and been using right hand Weihrauch’s for decades. The tiny little cheek piece in my book does not qualify it to be labeled a right hand gun. The way my cheek hits the stock most left hand Stocks with a tiny cheek ”bump” don’t feel any different than nothing.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

yup lefty only , well i suppose i could shoot righty buy never was any good at righty

Then go lux the cheek rise is both sides.lol then like bear says it's kinda insignificant. And at krale there the same price anyway.... Lux or std


The 85 standard

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

The biggest difference between the two 85’s is the drop in the stock. The Luxus model is so high on the comb it makes using the open sights difficult. The standard model is absolutely better for iron sights. The Luxus for scope. Forget the cheek piece as it does not matter at all.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

For the past 40 years I have removed countless number of cheek pieces (right hand) off these Weihrauch’s. Sold them to right hangers and nobody ever complained. I don’t bother anymore because they look nice anyway. Unless a cheek piece is really large like CSStocks LTD puts on their stocks, they are more decorative than functional.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

The biggest difference between the two 85’s is the drop in the stock. The Luxus model is so high on the comb it makes using the open sights difficult. The standard model is absolutely better for iron sights. The Luxus for scope. Forget the cheek piece as it does not matter at all.View attachment 323146

A great point . I also like the rounded teardrop profile then the stright line angle look .

 

[rapstarD]

I would like to own and try both.

 

[thumper]

Just to clear something up:

The "85" that Steve keeps referring to with the threaded rear block, hasn't been made in more than 20 years. It was the "R10" as we know it in the states, and mentioning it here is completely irrelevant since you can't buy one.

Presently, the 85 and 95 have identical actions and internal dimensions. The differences are only in the stocks and barrel lengths.

The OP asked about buying a new gun, and tossing out details about a gun that's been out of production for more than a couple decades simply adds to the confusion....

 

[beerthief]

Just to clear something up:

The "85" that Steve keeps referring to with the threaded rear block, hasn't been made in more than 20 years. It was the "R10" as we know it in the states, and mentioning it here is completely irrelevant since you can't buy one.

Presently, the 85 and 95 have identical actions and internal dimensions. The differences are only in the stocks and barrel lengths.

The OP asked about buying a new gun, and tossing out details about a gun that's been out of production for more than a couple decades simply adds to the confusion....

So the 85 500mmbarrel is not new
@ Krale ?