HW 85 VS HW 77
- Thread starter beerthief
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The 95/97 are the same as the 85/77. Slight differences.I do own the 95/97. Had many 77’s. I personally prefer the barrel cockers. Lighter and not so muzzle heavy. I can’t notice any accuracy loss from a good barrel cocker. This fact has been a surprise to me for 4 decades. You must be wanting to use iron sights. The longer barrel on the 85 would be a sweet easy cocker and good distance between the sights. Same probably with the long 77. I think I am in the minority and most will endorse the under lever. The under levers do make good bench guns but to heavy to tote around for me.
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Thank you
just what i wanted to know . i do not walk around Squirrels off my deck , no reason to walk with the gun, Walk in the woods with a pistol , YEAH !
just what i wanted to know . i do not walk around Squirrels off my deck , no reason to walk with the gun, Walk in the woods with a pistol , YEAH !
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Hey
thank you; for the side note knowledge. I was un aware that underlevers are heavier than a break barrel? *been looking at underlevers and was wondering the real differenceUpvote 0
According to Weihrauch the standard lux longer barrel (500mm)the K same barrel (410mm) as the 95. Also shows a tad more fps. Even in the short barrel k. Some guys have said the longer barrel is harder to hold(??) . Personly i think id like the slightly longer barrel myself.
Check out the utube vids on the 85 and see whats said..
www.weihrauch-sport.de
Just to add i do feel less weight and less maintenance on a break barrel vs side or under levers . Pretty simple.
Check out the utube vids on the 85 and see whats said..
spring piston / break barrel - Weihrauch Sport
A superior, light and well balanced air rifle of excellent accuracy for the whole family. ...product details
www.weihrauch-sport.de Just to add i do feel less weight and less maintenance on a break barrel vs side or under levers . Pretty simple.
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There is nothing at all similar about a 95 and a 97.......
Nor an 85 and a 77.
The 85/95 are essentially the same gun as far as the powerplant goes with minor differences in barrel length/sights/stocks.
The 77/97 are the same from the breech back, just different barrels and stocks.
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The 77/97 is a better gun in every way other than weight and loading convenience.
They are easier to shoot given the extra weight, they generally have better shot cycles from having shorter transfer ports and slightly less swept volume, and they never need or worry about barrel tension adjustment. They also have more weight forward and resist muzzle jump better.
But they are heavier.
Myself I take the weight penalty and choose the 77K. Fitted with a lightweight scope, I prefer the handling over a 85/95 with a heavier scope. A scope makes a huge difference in feel of a rifle.
The older 77K with the trimmer stocks were much nicer handling than the newer ones in my opinion.
They are easier to shoot given the extra weight, they generally have better shot cycles from having shorter transfer ports and slightly less swept volume, and they never need or worry about barrel tension adjustment. They also have more weight forward and resist muzzle jump better.
But they are heavier.
Myself I take the weight penalty and choose the 77K. Fitted with a lightweight scope, I prefer the handling over a 85/95 with a heavier scope. A scope makes a huge difference in feel of a rifle.
The older 77K with the trimmer stocks were much nicer handling than the newer ones in my opinion.
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HW95L specs which may be overkill but useful to some folks.
LOP = 14.25” trigger to center butt. WIN M70 30-06 = 13.875", CVA Accura V2 50 BP = 14.5". Note - LOP = length of pull measured from trigger to center butt.
The Hawke tactical medium rings put the center line of the scope 1.5” above the HW95L .22 caliber rifle bore. Rifle twist rate is 1:16”. Hawke objective lens is 8.25” to safety end of receiver.
Moderator weighs 4.32 oz, 122.6 g, 1892 gr. Moderator is 6” long and female threads start 1.7” in from beveled end of Moderator. The thread is 3/4" long & 1/2" diameter with 20 threads per inch.
Barrel length = 15.75”, 400 mm, from end of moderator to breech block end. HW95 barrel is 16 mm diameter.
Barrel without moderator = 12.188”, (12-3/16”, 309.575 mm), from thread end to breech block end.
HW95L total rifle length = 41.875”, 1063.625 mm, from end of moderator to butt center.
Rifle is 29”, 736.6 mm, from end of moderator to end of compression tube, receiver action.
Installed a ARH kit with a Vortek piston seal, cleaned/polished, re-lubed with GPL-205 on 5/21/2021 due to POI changing & lower chrono numbers in early 5/2021. This problem was caused by the Weihrauch factory over oiling/greasing the rifle which allowed dieseling that damaged the piston seal.
The .22 rifle is accurate using the H&N FTT 14.66 gr 5.53 mm pellets with a 10 shot average of 720 FPS (5/21/2021), Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.13 gr at 617 FPS, 3/21/2021. FPS is 720/725 after about 5K shots.
Pellet Rifle Swept Volume formula:
Rifle bore radius squared x Pi (3.14159) x piston stroke = cubed mm. Convert to cubed centimeter by moving decimal point 3 positions left.
Example:
HW95L .22 caliber 26 mm Bore radius = 13 squared (1/2 diameter) = 169 mm x Pi (3.14159) = 530.929 x HW95L Stroke 85 = 45,128.9 mm cubed. Convert to CC (cubic centimeter) = 45.128 or 45.13 CC for Swept Volume.
- HW95L .22 caliber pellet rifle S/N 2316xxxx
- Hawke 4-16 x 44 mm IR, SF, compact scope S/N N19B0xxxx
- Hawke tactical 2 piece medium rings
LOP = 14.25” trigger to center butt. WIN M70 30-06 = 13.875", CVA Accura V2 50 BP = 14.5". Note - LOP = length of pull measured from trigger to center butt.
The Hawke tactical medium rings put the center line of the scope 1.5” above the HW95L .22 caliber rifle bore. Rifle twist rate is 1:16”. Hawke objective lens is 8.25” to safety end of receiver.
Moderator weighs 4.32 oz, 122.6 g, 1892 gr. Moderator is 6” long and female threads start 1.7” in from beveled end of Moderator. The thread is 3/4" long & 1/2" diameter with 20 threads per inch.
Barrel length = 15.75”, 400 mm, from end of moderator to breech block end. HW95 barrel is 16 mm diameter.
Barrel without moderator = 12.188”, (12-3/16”, 309.575 mm), from thread end to breech block end.
HW95L total rifle length = 41.875”, 1063.625 mm, from end of moderator to butt center.
Rifle is 29”, 736.6 mm, from end of moderator to end of compression tube, receiver action.
Installed a ARH kit with a Vortek piston seal, cleaned/polished, re-lubed with GPL-205 on 5/21/2021 due to POI changing & lower chrono numbers in early 5/2021. This problem was caused by the Weihrauch factory over oiling/greasing the rifle which allowed dieseling that damaged the piston seal.
The .22 rifle is accurate using the H&N FTT 14.66 gr 5.53 mm pellets with a 10 shot average of 720 FPS (5/21/2021), Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.13 gr at 617 FPS, 3/21/2021. FPS is 720/725 after about 5K shots.
| Weihrauch factory spring = 11.25”, 285.75 mm.HW95L | 26 Bore Diameter Piston Seal Size (mm) | 85 Piston Stroke (mm) | 45.13 Piston Swept Volume (cc) | 3 x 15 Transfer Port x Length (mm) | 0.106 Transfer Port Volume (cc) | 426:1 SCR | 254 Piston Weight in Grams (g) |
Pellet Rifle Swept Volume formula:
Rifle bore radius squared x Pi (3.14159) x piston stroke = cubed mm. Convert to cubed centimeter by moving decimal point 3 positions left.
Example:
HW95L .22 caliber 26 mm Bore radius = 13 squared (1/2 diameter) = 169 mm x Pi (3.14159) = 530.929 x HW95L Stroke 85 = 45,128.9 mm cubed. Convert to CC (cubic centimeter) = 45.128 or 45.13 CC for Swept Volume.
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I probably wasn’t very clear. Sorry. The question was referring to the 85/77 comparisons. I meant the 95/97 would be a relative comparison respectively. With the 95/97 I could offer a personal opinion. That’s all any of us can do. Offer personal options. No facts in stating one model is “better“ than the other.
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Id take a 77 vs 97 caise i shoot irons so it a fit for me. 85 vs95 .... Id go with best price at time to buy. With a hw your going to more then likely get a quality gun in any you choose anyway. Thing with the 85 is its a overseas buy like from krale ( just about anything in choice is overseas anyway . Hmmm...) Not the same ol copy and paste what pa or aoa offeres in the usa.
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Although i prefer break barrels, there is little doubt the HW77 was a much better gun than the 85.
End of discussion.
I have tuned dozens of both to know the difference.
At that time, the HW77 was the Goto for FT, where it destroyed all of the competition for 5 years, which certainly included the 85 and the 80.
Nothing could touch it. Even today, few would argue that even the 97 is clearly better than its 77 cousin…a gun itself, often touted as the best Springer air rifle of all time….Marginal better underlever operation and catching perhaps.
The only real Challenge to this is that posed by the TX200, but its loading port making it less easy to load, and the noisy anti bear spoils it for the hunting option, if not FT…
I also argue the Rekord trigger is easier to tune to total perfection.
End of discussion.
I have tuned dozens of both to know the difference.
At that time, the HW77 was the Goto for FT, where it destroyed all of the competition for 5 years, which certainly included the 85 and the 80.
Nothing could touch it. Even today, few would argue that even the 97 is clearly better than its 77 cousin…a gun itself, often touted as the best Springer air rifle of all time….Marginal better underlever operation and catching perhaps.
The only real Challenge to this is that posed by the TX200, but its loading port making it less easy to load, and the noisy anti bear spoils it for the hunting option, if not FT…
I also argue the Rekord trigger is easier to tune to total perfection.
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I am looking at the HW85 with the long (500mm) barrel , the 97/77 does not come with that barrel , HMMMM ? wonder if i can get the 85 /500mm barrel and put it on a 97/77 ?
While I do respect Seveoo‘s Opinion, and I really do, “end of discussion”??? Really? That’s quite a claim.
Gentlemen, “better” is a relative term. Pluses and minuses for both.
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True... What's best for me, you and some guy off the street the next guy may not find it so great for him.
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“Better” also has to factor in the intended use. Most would argue a Ferrari 458 is a better car than a 4wd F-150. If you have a 458 and want to race for pinks and let me pick the course I’ll let you decide which is “better“ ha ha ha.
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Ok guys sorry for the ”End of debate comment” I meant it as figure of speech rather than wanting to close out the discussion….Of course i would not want to do that.
When tuning these guns for many years, the first variants of the HW85 had the same solid threaded trigger receiver unit of its heavier duty cousins, but threaded into a slimmer walled cylinder.
You sure had to be careful to not cross thread, as it was not nearly so robust. So much so, that it later got dropped for the later slide in, non threaded receiver. Not nearly so nice.
They also dropped the raised rail, which put the scope mounts too high high for some shooters liking, and often left some de-frazing issues where the holes broke through into the inner cylinder.
Its thinner wall cylinder never damped out as much recoil as its heavier cousins.
The heft and recoil killing nature was just not as good as the muzzle heavy HW77 even in its K version.
The static barrel under controlled tests, saw a HW77 edge a HW80, even if i preferred the convenience of the HW80.…and no barrel adjusting issues of course.
This test was not compared with an 85, but we have to acknowledge the jaws of the 80 were more massive than the 85.
As a hunter rig, yeah sure you might prefer the lighter build and break barrel convenience…but better gun than HW77….a tour de force in build, perfect compression parameters and muzzle heavy balance..
First choice tune by all the leading tuning houses for good reason.
When tuning these guns for many years, the first variants of the HW85 had the same solid threaded trigger receiver unit of its heavier duty cousins, but threaded into a slimmer walled cylinder.
You sure had to be careful to not cross thread, as it was not nearly so robust. So much so, that it later got dropped for the later slide in, non threaded receiver. Not nearly so nice.
They also dropped the raised rail, which put the scope mounts too high high for some shooters liking, and often left some de-frazing issues where the holes broke through into the inner cylinder.
Its thinner wall cylinder never damped out as much recoil as its heavier cousins.
The heft and recoil killing nature was just not as good as the muzzle heavy HW77 even in its K version.
The static barrel under controlled tests, saw a HW77 edge a HW80, even if i preferred the convenience of the HW80.…and no barrel adjusting issues of course.
This test was not compared with an 85, but we have to acknowledge the jaws of the 80 were more massive than the 85.
As a hunter rig, yeah sure you might prefer the lighter build and break barrel convenience…but better gun than HW77….a tour de force in build, perfect compression parameters and muzzle heavy balance..
First choice tune by all the leading tuning houses for good reason.
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Dang, no takers?!
What are the mechanical differences between the 97 and 77? I have about 100 shots through the 97 long I just got and am really starting to love it. About to go out and put some more through it. Wondering if the 77 shoots differently enough that I should look for one.Upvote 0
I have a dear friend that is basically stuck home alone, on a walker and he just lost his wife. He loves to shoot pellets indoors and thinks he can handle a HW30 that I’m bringing him. I can tell you that he would not agree that that a HW97/77 is a better gun. Like Mo-Ron is saying, different people have different needs. ”Better” is relative. AGN is and has been a good place for objective facts. Giving subjective opinion is fine to but should not be confused with the other.
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