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New R9 in the collection. NOW can I join the HW fan-boi club?

Forums Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Replicas Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Replicas – Discussion New R9 in the collection. NOW can I join the HW fan-boi club?

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    pdxFrank

     

    I'm sure you're quite proud of the 10-dimes challenge, I'll get around to it, but who the hell here is talking about how awesome I am or cares?  I'd rather you come by and I just run circles around you in person.  Or get out-shot by a pro.  Don't care, it's fun either way.

    Uh huh…

    https://www.oldspooks.com/agstuff/Targets/challenges/Ten-Dimes-v2.pdf 👈

    Generally speaking a rifle is worth about what you pay for it.  Now and then you get lucky.  You want a light rifle, easy to shoot and an exceptional buy?  Get yourself an HW50S from AoA in .177.  That thing is a meat maker and a tack driver, if you do your part.

    On the challenge … everyone always says the same thing … "I'll get around to it."  They never do.  It just seems to me like there are plenty of folks who have a fifty dollar rifle that will "shoot under a dime at 25 yards every shot".  That's exactly why I made that target.  If you are an NRA Expert Rifleman, you probably should be able to do that challenge no problem, don't you think?

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    Deerstalker
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    My HW95 will shoot MOS at 25 yards BUT I doubt that I will ever be able to shoot MOA at that distance.  At 82 my old eyes just are not that good any more.  About 100 years ago I did shoot expert with the M1 while in the Marines but now with the scope on 16x I have trouble seeing close pellets shots on my paper targets.  This rifle is a lot of fun to shoot off the back deck and so far the neighbors don't seem to mind or complain.

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    Deerstalker

    My HW95 will shoot MOS at 25 yards BUT I doubt that I will ever be able to shoot MOA at that distance.  At 82 my old eyes just are not that good any more.  About 100 years ago I did shoot expert with the M1 while in the Marines but now with the scope on 16x I have trouble seeing close pellets shots on my paper targets.  This rifle is a lot of fun to shoot off the back deck and so far the neighbors don't seem to mind or complain.

    Yeah, I hear you.  Minute of Squirrel is enough to make meat and it's all about the gumbo, isn't it?  That dime is actually almost a full MIL at 25 yards.  About fifty years ago I put three under a dime with my service rifle at 25 meters the first time we went to the range to zero.  Now I can't hardly see a dime at that distance.  What a great rifle that M1!  I never had the pleasure of shooting one.  We were shooting the M14 course with M16s when I joined up.

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    BryanH
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    Cornpone

    Yeah, I hear you.  Minute of Squirrel is enough to make meat and it's all about the gumbo, isn't it? 

    Amen to that.  I hunted almost exclusively with a MM tuned Chinese xs28m for probably 3 years and it was a great gun.  I used a Gamo Big cat for a long time too, it was decent for squirrels 15-20 yards and a bundled scope on there might get you through a couple seasons if you only hunt.  But a full day of plinking wrecks the scope and if you run a full tin every weekend it’s time for springs and seals in a month.  And it’s never gonna be a 50 yard gun.

     

    On the opposite end, I have not done worse than about 3/4” with any pellet from 25 yards in my R9.  2 moa at 50 yards with two so far, even with some wind.  probably 3 of them on a calm day.  Right out of the box making every shot count.  First group I ever shot was one of the best that day.  
     

    mr Frank-  I am sorry my friend.  If you imply that a $150 Gamo can touch the R9 I gotta tell you, as a instructor you should know the difference and know better than that.  There are new shooters out there expecting the world from Gamo that will walk away from airguns for good when they are let down.

     

    it’s immoral what you are doing and someone has to shine a light on the truth.

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    BryanH
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    And yes by 2 moa I mean one inch @ 50

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    jasmlowe
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    pdxFrank

    Cornpone

     

    Ah, that's where I saw that before … Look your Excellency someone needs to explain to you that there are a whole lot of people here who know as much (or considerably more) than you merely think you know  WRT "all sorts" of firearms and airguns.  That's the second time I've seen your business card and I am less impressed this time than I was last time.

    You make a patently NOVICE air gunner mistake of expecting any spring rifle to be "regularly" used to shoot beyond 50 yards.  Clearly you fail to understand why the BEST AIR GUNNERS ON THIS PLANET limit their range in Field Target to 55 yards… You are coming off as a "know-it-all".  That's generally the last sort of personality who should be coaching new shooters.  Maybe that's why you are here shilling for business?

    I'll bottom line this for you. I'm just a regular Joe. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that you can't pass the "Ten dimes challenge" with any springer in your stable or any rim fire in it as well.  Print yourself off one of these targets and put your target where your mouth is… ok?

    https://www.oldspooks.com/agstuff/Targets/challenges/Ten-Dimes-v2.pdf

    Show me.  I'm really tired of you trying to TELL me.  Otherwise, maybe spend a little more time using your ears and eyes … you never know what you might learn.

    Lol, what the frak is wrong with you folks?

    I just explained I was in the business.  Never said shit about my "expertise".  My abilities and teaching is "basic" at best.  So what I can shoot a break-barrel. That and 5 bucks gets me a cup of coffee.  I don't claim guruship, but a business card IS an advert.

     

    WHERE did I say a spring regularly used for 50 yards?  Just said that's what I wanted.  Since 25 is such a breeze, 50 should be reasonable.

     

    Dunno where this "know it all" crap comes from, as all I've done is spent the last few posts defending myself.

     

    I'm sure you're quite proud of the 10-dimes challenge, I'll get around to it, but who the hell here is talking about how awesome I am or cares?  I'd rather you come by and I just run circles around you in person.  Or get out-shot by a pro.  Don't care, it's fun either way.

    This thread hasn't been about my skills in the least.  Just my dislike of… ah ya know what, frak it.  Y'all are just a bunch of strangers to me and ain't worth the effort.

    Anyone with half a brain can read what I've said and come to their own conclusions.  Which isn't at all what you trolls seem to be feeding on.

     

    Meanwhile, another piss-ant to block, bleh.    Eh, ya know what, screw it, I get no joy here and no reason to stay.

     

    Have at my corpse vultures.  later Cornhole.

     

    /exit

     

     

     

    Don't worry about Cornpone he has been running his mouth and starting fights on several air gun forums for a long time and he is still a below average shooter. He has not friends and he will start a fight on here everyday if you let him (and basically he has). Best thing to do with him is hit the (Hide) button. By the way, I like your R-9 set-up and tune. Looks good!

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    pdxFrank
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    jasmlowe

    Don't worry about Cornpone he has been running his mouth and starting fights on several air gun forums for a long time and he is still a below average shooter. He has not friends and he will start a fight on here everyday if you let him (and basically he has). Best thing to do with him is hit the (Hide) button. By the way, I like your R-9 set-up and tune. Looks good!

     

    After much thought, I think THIS is the part that messed with with some folks mind:

    "It [R9] shoots fine.  But heck, at just 25-yards bench-rest, everything does.  My $150 Gamo can do this too."

     

    That ain't a lie.  I can regularly shoot just about any break-barrel 25-yards sub-1" benchrest.  I thought that was pretty standard.

    Who, shy of a handicap or brand new shooter, can't?  With just about any decent b-barrel?  Not every time, but oh, at least one x5 target out of 10, and that's generous IMO.  One out of three sounds about right for backyardplinkin'.  I see many others do way better with cheap guns.  I don't assume they lie, it drives to do better.  I'm thinking under those conditions, it's more about the shooter than the gun.  Unless the gun's broken.

     

    I don't use stock scopes typically, so pick whatever you choose there.  I like Hammers and Hatsan so far.  Sub-$100, I'm cheap and that distance it's unnecessary to have something fancy.  In my experience.

     

     

    Perhaps I should be bragging?  Dunno, not been out to prove that, but might need to just to shut some little biatches up.  If any of them followed me for any amount of time, or been by to visit as many have, they'd know better.  But they'd rather hackles up over a brand-name that likely doesn't know them from Adam.

     

    But it sure isn't saying my nice R9 is somehow junk or on-par to something $150-ish.  Regardless of brand, that's unlikely.  Again, I have zero complaints about the Beeman itself.  Just not happy with the fit.  The whole point of the original post until a couple folks insisted on taking offense.  And worse, becoming so.

     

    f

     

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by pdxFrank.
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    BryanH
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    There is a difference between cherry picking a sub 1” group and the truth.  And more on that, my R9 can do a whole lot better than 1” at 25.  Keep on trying to bury your outrageous claims with something that sounds reasonable and I’ll keep shining a light on it.  No one is gonna read the whole thread right?  Don’t make me go back and start posting links to some of the stuff you’ve been posting.  I really don’t have time 

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    BryanH
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    And I’m not an airgun snob by any means.  Just a hillbilly trucker that took a chance I on a nice gun and was rewarded.

    let’s not forget a little bit ago in this very thread you say well maybe an hw97 will do it I’m leaning that way, then you also say oh I’m not an underlever guy but this ole Chinese underlever be a great gun for someone else.

     

    Cant you just try to keep the narrative consistent?

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    BryanH
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    God  is in control and this is just a distraction from what really matters in life.  God bless you Frank

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by BryanH.
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    pdxFrank
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    Decided to see if I'm just losing my mind, or if what I said is REALLY true.  (Well, it can be both I guess, but meh.)

     

    Went out cold (literally too, 43F and windy, but it ain't snowing at least!) and shot the silent cat.

    A few warm up targets, not bad in themselves, and does what I said it would.  sub-1" at 25-yards.  A better shooter, or a better day for me, tighten that up easy.

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    BryanH

    And yes by 2 moa I mean one inch @ 50

    Ayup and isn't that a quarter of an inch at 25?  😉

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    pdxFrank

    jasmlowe

    Don't worry about Cornpone he has been running his mouth and starting fights on several air gun forums for a long time and he is still a below average shooter. He has not friends and he will start a fight on here everyday if you let him (and basically he has). Best thing to do with him is hit the (Hide) button. By the way, I like your R-9 set-up and tune. Looks good!

     

    After much thought, I think THIS is the part that messed with with some folks mind:

    "It [R9] shoots fine.  But heck, at just 25-yards bench-rest, everything does.  My $150 Gamo can do this too."

     

    Nope, in my case is was the business card and the attitude.

    But hold that thought…  It takes more than one group to establish the accuracy of a rifle.  Sometimes it takes more than one target.  Sure pretty much anything can be made to shoot under a quarter at 25 yards.  It is also pretty easy to forget that a quarter sized group at 25 yards is one millimeter less than FOUR MOA. If you are hunting squirrels and you keep your range under thirty or thirty five yards that is good enough. If all you expect out of a rifle is quarter sized groups that's all the rifle is going to give you.  Maybe challenge yourself.  Anyone and I mean ANYONE can shoot one dime sized group.  It proves nothing.  We already had this chat and it ended with you saying you didn't have time to do a proper comparison between the two rifles (well that's a polite way of saying what you said). 

    Same thing as before, take the time to shoot the groups, let the groups talk for the rifle.  That's how you AVOID confirmation bias.  There is no other way.

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    jasmlowe

    Don't worry about Cornpone he has been running his mouth and starting fights on several air gun forums for a long time and he is still a below average shooter. He has not friends and he will start a fight on here everyday if you let him (and basically he has). Best thing to do with him is hit the (Hide) button. By the way, I like your R-9 set-up and tune. Looks good!

    Yeah, your right.  It's tough to be hated by so many people.  They just never let up on me.  The funny thing is the people who seem to dislike me the most are a lot like you…  They post one good group at the end of four hours of shooting… Then they say something like, "My rifle will keep EVERY SHOT under a dime at fifty yards!  See here is a group to prove it." 

    Here is your target, show me. Talk is cheap.

    https://www.oldspooks.com/agstuff/Ten-dimes-challenge.pdf

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    pdxFrank
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    and since someone will ask for a video…

    I claimed even cheap guns can do sub-1" at 25-yards.  I didn't say better than an (whatever).

    I should've know I'd call out the real fan-bois with that title and what turned out to be a bold statement or two.

    Well, hind-sight as it is, I stand my ground.  Any decent break-barrel can group 1" shots CONSISTENTLY at 25-yards benchrest.
    As well as, as long as, as comfortably as, as butter-smooth as, etc. etc.  a gun 3x's it's price???  Probably not.  Never said that.
     

    Again, ain't claiming' fame here, just sayin' ya don't have to spend big money to get good shots.  About the same half-inch holes I get with other break-barrels.
     

    That doesn't mean to imply some diminishing of any other brand.   Dunno how much clear I can be.

    I assume if I can fit myself to the R9, we'll be golden.
    Nor does it mean I'll quit trying.  Believe me, I want to love it.  Ugh, that didn't sound right.  Anyway, it's zero reflection on flyingdragon or Beeman or HW or whomever.  I could have tried on the suit before taking it home.

     

    I'm sure there's flies buzzing around me. But until I provide something to end the 10-dime challenge conversation killer, not really interested in swatting them anymore.

    I don't get the big deal, but I've tried hard enough, other things in life to triage.

     

     

    f

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    pdxFrank

    and since someone will ask for a video…

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I claimed even cheap guns can do sub-1" at 25-yards.  I didn't say better than an (whatever).

    I should've know I'd call out the real fan-bois with that title and what turned out to be a bold statement or two.

    Well, hind-sight as it is, I stand my ground.  Any decent break-barrel can group 1" shots CONSISTENTLY at 25-yards benchrest.
    As well as, as long as, as comfortably as, as butter-smooth as, etc. etc.  a gun 3x's it's price???  Probably not.  Never said that.
     

    Again, ain't claiming' fame here, just sayin' ya don't have to spend big money to get good shots.  About the same half-inch holes I get with other break-barrels.
     

    That doesn't mean to imply some diminishing of any other brand.   Dunno how much clear I can be.

    I assume if I can fit myself to the R9, we'll be golden.
    Nor does it mean I'll quit trying.  Believe me, I want to love it.  Ugh, that didn't sound right.  Anyway, it's zero reflection on flyingdragon or Beeman or HW or whomever.  I could have tried on the suit before taking it home.

     

    I'm sure there's flies buzzing around me. But until I provide something to end the 10-dime challenge conversation killer, not really interested in swatting them anymore.

    I don't get the big deal, but I've tried hard enough, other things in life to triage.

     

     

    f

    Nobody called you a liar, Frank.  Why would they need video proof that you can shoot a quarter sized group with any air rifle?

    You claimed cheap guns can shoot under an inch at 25 yards.  Well then there is no disagreement.  I also claimed pretty much any rifle can shoot one inch groups at 25 yards BECAUSE that is only four minutes of angle.  You can almost do that with a slingshot.  Matter of fact I've seen people DO THAT with a target bow at 25 meters.  You also said you wanted a rifle that would let you shoot over 50 yards more or less routinely.  That $150 Walmart springer is one hell of a lot less likely to do that for you than a premium spring rifle from a company like Weirauch, RWS or AA…  We both know that is true.  You get what you pay for.  If you are happy with an entry grade rifle more power to ya.

    I'm not an HW fan boy but I do like good German engineering.  Well my favorite rifles are Diana's and anyone who has been around this forum for a few years knows that quite well.  So methinks you are imagining "fan bois" behind every corner.  Your statements weren't bold.  They were flat out wrong, starting with MOA at 25 yards but meaning 1 inch at 25 yards.

    Again almost any springer will group one inch at 25 yards, only the VERY BEST will group ONE MOA at 25 yards.  Said another way?  One inch at 25 yards is EASY, really, really, really easy Frank.  It's easy.  You are absolutely right.  It's trivially easy unless it is blowing a gale.  It literally proves nothing.

    Speaking of those half inch holes … Show me a clean target with three of them on it, 5 shots in each hole, no other shots on the paper.  Otherwise it has not happened except in your imagination.  Show me, Mr. Instructor, don't tell me.  You showed me one FOUR MOA group and claimed it proves your point.  I guess it does prove your point.

    Your point was, "I like rifles that can shoot under an inch at 25 yards and I can buy them all day long for $150."  It's all good.  I like slingshots and shoot them sometimes for fun.  I also like precision rifles and it has been my consistent observation that precision rifles COST MORE and are generally BETTER MADE than cheap starter grade rifles.

    Yeah, on the challenge.  You are a master instructor.  It should be trivially easy for you to pass it with that R9.  The rules are simple.  You cut that center circle the shot counts.  You don't it is a miss.  Scoring is pass/fail.  You need 30 consecutive shots in groups of three, one group per bull to pass. One miss, you fail. To hear you talk about it, it should be trivial with that R9 so let's see you do it with your $150 air gun.  It's possible but I suspect you will find it a hell of a lot more difficult with the starter rifle… and THAT is MY point.

    But take your time, wait for good weather, there is a whole thread dedicated to shooting the challenge.  There is plenty of time.  You can join all of us "fan bois" here:

    https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/ten-dimes-hw-98-you-be-the-judge/?view=all#post-986922

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    BryanH
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    How do you correlate a 1” group at 25 yards as equivalent performance to an R9?

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    luckybuckeye
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    I have two Weihrauch air rifles and I bought them for the build quality and brand reputation. I don’t doubt that some gamo’s are great shooters. Gas rams are probably pretty consistent and barrels are all made on automated equipment that are capable of holding tight tolerances. I’m sure if you get one with good sharp rifling it will be a good shooter.

    My boss is powder burner bullseye shooter and he told me all barrels are made the same three ways. He buys and sells the same make and model of gun over and over until he gets a shooter. Luck of the draw. Cheaper brands undoubtedly run more barrels before changing the tooling. If you get a barrel made at the start of a run with sharp tooling or a new mandrel (hammer forging) you got a winner.  I’m sure air rifle barrels are the same way. 

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    Duckfish
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    Frank,  you hold and bench your R9 like it is a powder burner.  Lose the death grip, do not weld your cheek, get a soft bag to shoot off, not that hard support, adjust eye relief toward you so you are not cramming the gun into your shoulder.  
    Let the gun float, don’t try to control it.  Good luck with your beautiful new gun.  

    And no, you can not be a fan boy till you own at least 5 Weihrauch guns.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Duckfish.
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    Duckfish

    Frank,  you hold and bench your R9 like it is a powder burner.  Lose the death grip, do not weld your cheek, get a soft bag to shoot off, not that hard support, adjust eye relief toward you so you are not cramming the gun into your shoulder.  
    Let the gun float, don’t try to control it.  Good luck with your beautiful new gun.  

    And no, you can not be a fan boy till you own at least 5 Weihrauch guns.

    😏😁👆

    Now you see how much you could have prevented if you had just been paying attention and been first responder to the thread?  WHERE WERE YOU?

    +1 Green for you.  Thanks for setting the example. I'll try to follow it in the future.

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