Most efficient PCPs with 3000 psi fill?

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I don't think anyone except one of the tuners like Ernest (or air gun store owners) will be able to answer that kind of question accurately as our experience will be limited to the guns we've owned. Someone like Ernest has direct experience of tuning a wide range of air guns where he specifically looks at shot count (among other things). 

Also, "efficient" means different things depending on the context. A gun could be efficient with air a get 3 powerful shots per fill. I think most people would mean shot count but it's hard to do direct comparisons as they have different size air reservoirs and power levels. 

Maybe start with narrowing it down to a caliber and desired power level. If you were looking for a 22, for example, with great shot count on a 3000 psi fill, I would concur with Black Diesel - the 22 cal Hatsan guns I have owned have done well on shot count with a 3000 psi fill (but not the 25's). With an added regulator, they would do even better. They don't get the same shot count as the Cricket or the Mutant though. My new 22 Mutant Shorty gets more shots from a smaller reservoir.

I would be looking at one of the factory regulated high quality guns from FX, kalibrgun, Taipan etc if the goal is efficient use of air and max shots per fill. These guns can be filled higher than 3000 psi but they also do well with just 3000 psi. They all get great shot count in 22 and even in 25. When tuned for max shot count, the number of shots can be impressive.... Regulators make a huge difference to efficiency.

From my collection, I am constantly impressed by how rarely I need to fill my 25 Cricket considering the power it puts out. It has a large cylinder but still, 60 consistent shots at close to 50fpe makes it a pleasure to use. If it was tuned down, I can only imagine....


 
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"blackdiesel"I'm not concerned with efficiency from an engineering perspective. Basically, interested in discussing guns that will do 50+ shots at 30 FPE or higher with a 3000 psi pressure. I know the Daystates with the slingshot valve system are probably some of the most efficient guns using air but they use higher fill pressures.
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What about air capacity? If you don't distinguish guns based on how much air they hold then a bottle gun is the way to go. 

The 22 cal Impact gets more shots per fill than any 30fpe tube gun. 
 
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"blackdiesel"The impact has a higher fill pressure so it's disqualified for this discussion. :D The Royale gets a super high amount of shots too but it's higher pressure too.
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Why wouldn't you just look at the shot count for a 3000psi fill? 

Just because they can be filled higher, doesn't mean you have to. I only fill my cricket more than 3000 psi when I have a fresh air fill with my tanks. Most of the time, the fill is around 3000 psi and it gets more shots with 3000 psi than most. 

I think I'm misunderstanding something about the objective....

 
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"blackdiesel"Ok no objective I just wonder which PCPs get the highest shot counts at 3000 psi fill. I have a Cricket also so I'm not trying to compare guns just interested in guns with power at 3000 psi fills.
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I understand that part. I assumed the issue was that your tank, pump or compressor was limited to 3000 psi. That wouldn't prevent you using a regulated gun with a 300 bar max fill pressure with a 3000 psi fill though. That's the part I'm not getting - the reason for excluding guns just because their tanks are rated to hold more air without breaking. 

In regulated guns like the Cricket, their power is consistent at 4000 psi 3000 psi and 1500psi so the only difference running it at 3000 psi is shot count. I could understand the issue in extreme big bores or dump valve guns which have to be run at either 3000 or 4500psi depending on the tuning. 

In any event, shot count is going to be largely based on air capacity, power and the efficiencies created by regulators. Even high end unregulated guns don't seem to have shot counts that are out of the ordinary. Using the Daystate Regal as an example, it's valve is better than average but the shot count is just average. 



 
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Of all guns I have owned (a lot, Hatsan AT44/BT65's, Weihrauch HW100's, Bsa Scorpions, SPA M10, Steyr LG110's RAW HM1000x and now mostly FX's) the FX guns are by far the most efficient.
Due to the floating hammer priciple, there is a total absence of hammer bounce, which is very good for shotcount numbers.
I increased the reg. pressure of my LG110 HP hunting to 140bar, and it made it more efficient than it was.
Also a lot less noise because there is less waisted air.
 
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Very often, a PCP rolls out of the factory with its valve system not optimized to work efficiently even though they are very much capable of doing so. This goes for many models priced as those (or higher) in the elite class. To give you an example, I discovered that my Cricket .22, although it was shooting very consistently at 32 FPE out of the box, had its hammer and valve spring tension and regulator setting imprecisely adjusted. Thus these components were not working harmoniously to produce efficient shot charges. The extreme spread was very impressive 6 - 8 FPS; however, I was only getting a maximum of 56 shots from 220 - 150 BAR. Lessening the hammer spring tension, tightening the valve spring tension, and cleaning and tuning the regulator increased my shot count to 98 shots, though with a slight drop in energy (29 FPE).

In light of the above, having a PCP that has an adjustable valve and hammer spring tension, as well as a regulator, helps a great deal in having some degree of control in air usage. With my Cricket now powered down to shoot 14.3 grain pellets at 525 FPS (that is, 8 FPE), I am able to get over 430 shots with an extreme spread of 10-13 FPS from 220 - 50 BAR. At this power level, it is still able to shoot with one-hole precision all the way to my maximum shooting distance of 27 yards in my backyard. Of course, that’s with the valve system tuned—not modified. 
 
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Hello.

I'm new to tis forum but not new to airguns. IMO best way to compare efficiency is to calculate it, I use metric and it goes:
(volume of reservoir in ccs)x(pressure drop)/(number of shots)/(power)
Result is in CCM per J, ccs oc air used to produce 1 Joule. bigger the number, less efficiency.
I did not invent this formula, i adapted it for metric from RSTERNE.
It is ver useful because You can compare guns directly, no need for pressure range, bottle capacity etc...
There is very little information in tis type of format on the internet, whenever i look for efficiency i need to calculate it time and time again.
I was thinkin of starting a tread about efficiency, only numbers for each airgun at specific power and caliber. If each individual calculates this little formula, a lot of information could be gathered very easely.

My friend has .25 cricket, we got 11,6cc/j at 82J and 6,7cc/j at 65J which is the best i have ever seen.
He also managed 8,4 cc/j at 101J with BT65 unregulated.
My hatsan AT44 .25 did aprox 8cc/j at 65J for 18 shots, unregulated, 3mps ES.

Jakob

 
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I accidently filled my Cricket 22 to 340 bars, as read on my tank gauge,
I thought I was going to blow my seals, I can not tell you how many shots I got from the cricket as I did not count, I can tell you it was a lot of shots eight Magazines easy, I shot targets , Poles, Sparrows and steel pipes, I just wished I would have counted , I shot for hours.
I was told its very bad for the seals so I have not done it again,
Most I have ever shot one gun at one setting ,
Mike 
 
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