N/A Which game changer do you like the best?

[Tpatner412]

I don't remember if he said it was but his wording on both of his reviews (M30 and Rem) about their features was the same. The Remington version has a much better stock in my opinion. It seems the M30's stock was just a quick cut out chunk of wood with a poorly designed and weak looking wrist without enough vertical angle. If I had one I would probably be trying to make a stock if it shot well enough.

The M30, Remington and Barra are the same action as far as I have seen. Just cosmetic differences between the stocks as best I can tell (Barra being the M30C variant). Granted, since the Remington version isn’t available in the US, it’s possible they made other changes to keep users from adjusting above 12 fpe.

Regarding the JTS, my first question to Travis Whitney at JTS when I saw the stealth hawk was whether or not it was the M30 in a new stock and he said it’s their own design. After he took me through the gun, it was clear to me that they’ve built it on their own terms. I suppose they may have taken inspiration from the M30, but then again, I could say the same thing for FX. It’s cool to see the same general design of action then translated into a bench gun and bullpup with the other models they showed. The bolt action system on the stealth hawk was pretty innovative. Being adjustable for cocking effort without a direct correlation to the hammer spring tension makes it a lot more user friendly than most bolt action systems.

 

[MACTEN]

Do they all have a shroud ahead of the air tube? They’ve been popping up so fast, I haven’t really been able to assess that. My concern would be dropping a unshrouded one off a bench and having it land on the muzzle. It’s happened a few times in my multi-decade forays. There, I’ve confessed to being a klutz and feel much better. Perhaps these air filled tubes are as strong as solid titanium - I don’t know - but I’d like to know before the muzzle hits the floor and it goes off like a rocket.

Yes they do.

 

[MACTEN]

The M30, Remington and Barra are the same action as far as I have seen. Just cosmetic differences between the stocks as best I can tell (Barra being the M30C variant). Granted, since the Remington version isn’t available in the US, it’s possible they made other changes to keep users from adjusting above 12 fpe.

Regarding the JTS, my first question to Travis Whitney at JTS when I saw the stealth hawk was whether or not it was the M30 in a new stock and he said it’s their own design. After he took me through the gun, it was clear to me that they’ve built it on their own terms. I suppose they may have taken inspiration from the M30, but then again, I could say the same thing for FX. It’s cool to see the same general design of action then translated into a bench gun and bullpup with the other models they showed. The bolt action system on the stealth hawk was pretty innovative. Being adjustable for cocking effort without a direct correlation to the hammer spring tension makes it a lot more user friendly than most bolt action systems.

Well there's a factory in China that makes the M30 and.. well. you know where I'm going. Of the cheaper variants I really like the stock on the JTS the best and hearing thee bolt has a work through is great news.. If the FX is really $1149 that's almost double the jts $599? But who knows.. Jts also seems to care about customer satisfaction as well.. I wonder when the JTS will be out in the market..

 

[MACTEN]

Do they all have a shroud ahead of the air tube? They’ve been popping up so fast, I haven’t really been able to assess that. My concern would be dropping a unshrouded one off a bench and having it land on the muzzle. It’s happened a few times in my multi-decade forays. There, I’ve confessed to being a klutz and feel much better. Perhaps these air filled tubes are as strong as solid titanium - I don’t know - but I’d like to know before the muzzle hits the floor and it goes off like a rocket.

Best thing to do If I were you is to hang back and watch to see if people hammer the designs after they are actually out and about.

 

[weevil]

Forgive me if this has already been talked about in this thread, but how many more O-rings does this configuration require? And how much more trouble is it to simple clean the barrel?

I am asking because I simply don't know.

As far as aesthetics go, I like the look, but wonder about the serviceability, reliability and costs of maintenance, etc.

Of course, until they have been out in the field for at least 2 or 3 years... nobody knows for sure.

All my best!

Kerry

The panthera and siblings have the plenum around the barrel and are not any more difficult to clean. Fx initially stated that liners should only be changed by dealers but I think people are doing that themselves. As for orings, I don’t imagine that the number would increase and in the case of FX, a few more would likely go unnoticed.

 

[weevil]

Best thing to do If I were you is to hang back and watch to see if people hammer the designs after they are actually out and about.

I’ll wait for the influencer video where they drop one on its nose, or I could just visit my doctor.

 

[Tpatner412]

Well there's a factory in China that makes the M30 and.. well. you know where I'm going. Of the cheaper variants I really like the stock on the JTS the best and hearing thee bolt has a work through is great news.. If the FX is really $1149 that's almost double the jts $599? But who knows.. Jts also seems to care about customer satisfaction as well.. I wonder when the JTS will be out in the market..

I hear ya. But different factories. The M30, Remington and Barra from one. The JTS in another.

I heard May, then I heard fall. We shall see as the year progresses I suppose. Either way, lots of cool new stuff to play with on the horizon.

 

[MACTEN]

I hear ya. But different factories. The M30, Remington and Barra from one. The JTS in another.

I heard May, then I heard fall. We shall see as the year progresses I suppose. Either way, lots of cool new stuff to play with on the horizon.

Well if the JTS is just a copy of the airtube idea ( and it would be as Spa started this whole thing) I hope they went through the M30 and worked anything they found wrong with it out. I have seen a few issues it had., At least the earlier release of it. Is it beech wood or something else used for the stock? Or do you know?

 

[MACTEN]

I’ll wait for the influencer video where they drop one on its nose, or I could just visit my doctor.

Pretty sure the same thing that would happen to it would happen to all the other air tube airguns.

 

[JungleShooter]

Game changer?

⭞​

To me a game changer is how we can get good quality multi-purpose SCOPES.
Until not too far back, we had mainly narrow-purpose scopes, with often very limited functions even for what they were designed for.
But now we get jacks of all trades — AND they are good at almost every "trade" — at affordable prices!


𖦏 Huge magnification ranges — at very affordable prices — with good glass quality and repeatable turrets:
1-10x
2-12x
3-18x
4-24x
5-30x
——— And a bit more pricey:
4-32x
6-36x
5-40x
5-50x



𖦏 And I usually can get all the features I can imagine:
• holdoff reticles — with all kinds of features, center dots, gridded reticles, etc.
• 0-stop turrets, or locking turrets
• turret revolution counter
• illumination, adjustable, and day bright
• FFP or SFP — whatever I prefer
• MIL or MOA —whatever I prefer
• 10mil/ 25moa turrets
• and increasingly: 10y parallax



➧ Game changer for me, yupp.
These are great times to be an airgunner (and scope nut!).

Matthias

 

[BackStop]

The panthera and siblings have the plenum around the barrel and are not any more difficult to clean. Fx initially stated that liners should only be changed by dealers but I think people are doing that themselves. As for orings, I don’t imagine that the number would increase and in the case of FX, a few more would likely go unnoticed.

Forgive me, I thought the entire pressure vessel was encasing the barrel, not just the plenum. My bad.

In any case, how can FX use more O-rings than it already does...

Oops... silly question... (grin)

All my best!

Kerry

 

[MongooseV8]

Forgive me, I thought the entire pressure vessel was encasing the barrel, not just the plenum. My bad.

In any case, how can FX use more O-rings than it already does...

Oops... silly question... (grin)

All my best!

Kerry

In the case of the Panthera/Dynamic models, a gigantic plenum is housed in the barrel shroud area and around the barrel. The new DRS models have the air reservoir in the barrel shroud area; and a plenum on the bottom side of the breech block that can be seen dipped below the stocks like a fake magazine. So you pretty much had it right

 

[Trucker3573]

I hear ya. But different factories. The M30, Remington and Barra from one. The JTS in another.

I heard May, then I heard fall. We shall see as the year progresses I suppose. Either way, lots of cool new stuff to play with on the horizon.

Yeah hard to say when they will show up as JTS was still showcasing a gun this year that they also did last year and it still hasn’t shown. Lol.

 

[BackStop]

In the case of the Panthera/Dynamic models, a gigantic plenum is housed in the barrel shroud area and around the barrel. The new DRS models have the air reservoir in the barrel shroud area; and a plenum on the bottom side of the breech block that can be seen dipped below the stocks like a fake magazine. So you pretty much had it right

Thanks. That was my impression. In that the "shroud" has become the pressure vessel.

So much for a shroud making the gun quieter?

Anyway, I do like the look, but wonder about the long term feasibility of the design.

And does it reduce or add O-rings?

Only time will tell.

Thanks again!

All my best!

Kerry

 

[Vetmx]

I have zero concern about who copied who. My only concern is who makes the best one. Unless someone can prove to me that the FX version came out of a China factory, I have no problem doubling down. I always thought the Snowpeak air tube over barrel gun was cool. I remember checking it out on Krales site years ago. But I know who made it. The whole spinning the roulette wheel everytime I ordered a gun thing lost its luster for me. When you get a bad cheap gun, you just go yep, I took a risk. When you get a bad upper tier gun, every thing goes differently.

 

[BackStop]

I have zero concern about who copied who. My only concern is who makes the best one. Unless someone can prove to me that the FX version came out of a China factory, I have no problem doubling down. I always thought the Snowpeak air tube over barrel gun was cool. I remember checking it out on Krales site years ago. But I know who made it. The whole spinning the roulette wheel everytime I ordered a gun thing lost its luster for me. When you get a bad cheap gun, you just go yep, I took a risk. When you get a bad upper tier gun, every thing goes differently.

I had no idea that using the shroud area as the pressure tube/vessel was around for that long. If I am correct in what you are saying?

Having said that, apparently the shroud pressure vessel in the Snowpeak didn't do well or I would have been hearing about it here on AGN or elsewhere long ago? Right? (shrug)

All my best!

Kerry

 

[Vetmx]

I had no idea that using the shroud area as the pressure tube/vessel was around for that long. If I am correct in what you are saying?

Having said that, apparently the shroud pressure vessel in the Snowpeak didn't do well or I would have been hearing about it here on AGN or elsewhere long ago? Right? (shrug)

All my best!

Kerry

I didn’t order it for two reasons. One, who made it. Two, it’s a goose gun. If the DRS Classic only came in 600mm to get proper velocities, I wouldn’t have ordered it. You also have to understand we get caught up in some serious trends in this hobby. More power, then bigger shot counts, then smaller gun, then bigger plenums, then 300b fills, then even smaller guns, then back to even more power because we have more air. I think the Snowpeak showed up right when it didn’t jive with whatever trend we were in. I don’t think it had much to do with who made it. The room full of guys who moved on from the China gambler guns is much smaller than the room full of guys ready to sit down at the poker table.

 

[BackStop]

I didn’t order it for two reasons. One, who made it. Two, it’s a goose gun. If the DRS Classic only came in 600mm to get proper velocities, I wouldn’t have ordered it. You also have to understand we get caught up in some serious trends in this hobby. More power, then bigger shot counts, then smaller gun, then bigger plenums, then 300b fills, then even smaller guns, then back to even more power because we have more air. I think the Snowpeak showed up right when it didn’t jive with whatever trend we were in. I don’t think it had much to do with who made it. The room full of guys who moved on from the China gambler guns is much smaller than the room full of guys ready to sit down at the poker table.

Understand. I use my airguns for pesting in my backyard and at times out to ~96 yards for pesting. All I shoot is .177 and although I have tried a few slugs, the guns I have don't like them as far as accuracy/precision.

So, I guess I use my airguns (for the most part) for what I think they were designed for. Short range (usually less than ~60 yards) and shooting 10.3g pellets at from 750-850fps. Don't remember what the fpe is, but MUCH less than 20fpe because I don't need that much for what I do and I like to reduce the chance of pass through and collateral damage in the urban environment I have to shoot in. Another reason I have chosen to stay with .177...

This more power, larger plenums, etc, etc, etc... isn't something that I am ever going to fall for. If I need that much power, I will buy a PB and spend a LOT less money and be a LOT more accurate/precise without all the "tuning", etc. Been there and done that already, but I was burglarized a few years back and all of my rifles were stolen along with pretty much everything of value. In other words, I was cleaned out. I would tell you who did it, but then I would be cautioned or banned by AGN for telling the truth about an invasion that is still ongoing... But I digress.

Lost my train of thought... thanks for the reply!

All my best!

Kerry

 

[MACTEN]

I hear ya. But different factories. The M30, Remington and Barra from one. The JTS in another.

I heard May, then I heard fall. We shall see as the year progresses I suppose. Either way, lots of cool new stuff to play with on the horizon.

I saw the shot show interview and paused the video. I do really like that stock and the bolt handle looks pretty beefy! He did mention the shot count on high power was only15 which is not the best, so the cylinder must be smaller or pressure is around 200 bar I guess. I see FX has mentioned carbon fiber tube upgrade for 250 v 230 bar and shot count is higher. Still the JTS also has what looks like the better aluminum mags and local company appeal which I really appreciate...

 

[MACTEN]

I have zero concern about who copied who. My only concern is who makes the best one. Unless someone can prove to me that the FX version came out of a China factory, I have no problem doubling down. I always thought the Snowpeak air tube over barrel gun was cool. I remember checking it out on Krales site years ago. But I know who made it. The whole spinning the roulette wheel everytime I ordered a gun thing lost its luster for me. When you get a bad cheap gun, you just go yep, I took a risk. When you get a bad upper tier gun, every thing goes differently.

I doubt the FX is made in China. I also don't think the Altaros is but maybe.... It's certain the others on the list are for sure which is fine.
It's just funny when companies tout how the new innovative product they are presenting is something they invented though.
I've had several bad upper crust airguns for sure, and it does leave a different taste in the mouth vs a bad cheap one.. I think the place to find out more about the success or failures of the platform would be the European forums as they were released to that Asian and European markets. Some over there like the concept and look but didn't like the build quality of the M30 early on.