Springer vs. PCP

[3Crows]

So no challenges for you? LOL

"Hunters" are the only unethical thing in the equation, an airgun is just an airgun, it can't do anything on its own... Don't push BS that a springer is "unethical", the meat popsicle selecting the rifle, prey and pulling the trigger is the only issue when it comes to hunting ethics.

When the top springer shooters shoot pcp in competition, the pcp shooters better be on their A game or they will get crushed. Train accordingly or get destroyed.

Springers are not ethical for the animals I hunt and pest. I clearly said "sizable" animals. A springer cannot have the power or range of a strong pcp in .25 or larger caliber. Springers are too large, too heavy, too long, lacking in power and the few .25 caliber springers I have seen including owning one was like getting slapped in the face with a hammer everytime I pulled the trigger. When, wich will never be, there is a sub 40 inches, sub 8 pounds fully equipped springer that can reliably and accurately drive a .25 caliber pellet at 900 fps without the obnoxious scope destroying reverse recoil I will give them another look see. Something like the TX200 under lever with a titanium tube and barrel (lined) to keep bare weight below 7 pounds, 39 inches long and running a .25 pellet at least 800 fps. And no reverse recoil. I will have a look see.

 

[Jonnes]

without the obnoxious scope destroying reverse recoil

You do know that most known brands in the airgun world like Element Optics, Hawke, UTG, Vortex, etc. offer "safe for springer" rated scopes, right?!

Springers are not ethical for the animals I hunt and pest.

Which are? If you're talking deer, hog or any other medium to large size game, no one in his right mind will tell you to use a (small caliber) PCP, let alone a springer. That's the kind of job for a large caliber, fast shooting, center fire rifle. This forum is called "Airgun" Nation, not "Big game fire boomsticks nation". Heck, I just might start that forum. You joining me?

But seriously. Anything with feathers from the size of a phat goose downwards, to something with fur like trash panda and smaller, at close range, can safely and humanly be shot with a (hight power, .22 and bigger) springer. As long as you place an accurate shot in the nugget, preferably cleanly behind the ear according to the "aim small, miss small" principle. You must know the retaining energy, ballistics, to be able to do that. Would I advice it? Nope, but that's a different story. With PCP's, you can hunt medium to large sized game at close range (100 yards) as long as the caliber and speed offer enough energy to cleanly kill the animal at it's distance. I have hunted hogs in Texas (at the range of my friends father) once with a .45 caliber slug slinging PCP at ranges varying from 40 to 120 yards, dropping them instantly with a nice clean and ethical headshot. I'm even convinced it will kill basically anything with a heartbeat at those distances.

But regardless, TS is asking about what is wise to buy for a lot of father/(young!!!) son time learning the little one how to handle a gun and shoot safely, asking if he should get a springer or (for lazy shooters) PCP for that. So let's not introduce hunting (not small critter pest-control) into the equation. Not relevant IMHO.

Might be better to keep Apple's to Apple's and so on so forth.

Now that's probably the most sensible thing I've read so far in this topic.

 

[coastal drifter]

I like them both, that being said if you're looking for accuracy at distances beyond 50 yards it would be hard to beat a PCP, especially if you're looking for power in larger calibers.22+. Springers are a much simpler gun with less support items needed like a high-pressure air compressor or even a scope. As I said in the beginnig of my post I like them both for deferent reasons. My HW95 (springer) will hit a 2inch spinner 10 out of 10 times if I do my part with plenty of power to humanely kill most small game.

 

[.20calguy]

I just looked it up. Somehow it had escaped my notice. Beautiful rifle!

They are that and more.

 

[.20calguy]

Anybody that thinks springers are just as accurate as pcps needs to print out some 30 yard challenge targets and prove it. The only springer scores I've seen are much lower. But my poor view of springers is no doubt in large part because I've never shot a nice one.

Like you said, It depends on which guns you're comparing.

 

[JimD]

Jonnes may yet prove his position that springers are just as accurate as PCPs but he posted two 200s with PCPs and a 185 he shot with a nice springer. I do not truly know one way or the other but the fact that the scores for springers are not on the 30 yard challenge thread or, to my knowledge, elsewhere suggests PCPs have an advantage when shot from a bench rest. That would not mean springers are not great airguns. I would be happy to be proved wrong but at this point I don't think springers are as accurate from a bench.

 

[jkingrph]

Not having, nor having ever shot a PCP I cannot actually compare. Now I have 18 extremely nice springers and one SSP. I would think the PCP would inherently be more accurate as you do not have a spring and piston suddenly accelerating and then suddenly stopping while the pellet is transiting the barrel. Of the springers 3 are pure target models, two older FWB 150 and one FWB 300 and for my shooting find them about the same in accuracy as the SSP FWB 602, and much easier to shoot. I can stretch shooting to about 45 yards at my house, but since getting some severe rather painful arthritis in one knee, I generally limit my shooting to 10 or 20 yards, and use aperture sights on most of my favorite guns.

 

[beerthief]

Should? No, why? Could? When you have the balls, yes! Is it fun to outshoot those "lazy" PCP shooters, see those jaws drop when you outshoot them, and feel like an actual boss when you do? HELL YEAH!



According to the postal service, my new shooting bags will arrive today. In the coming days I'll mount the SideWinder to my HW97K and do the last target to see what it does with a better reticle and larger magnification. To be continued...



That's my experience also.



And that my friend, is what shooting springers makes such a s..t load of fun! But springers outshooting PCP's can be done, if and when the shooter plays it's part well. I.e., when the shooter knows how to shoot. That's why I always say; learn (kids) to shoot with a springer, if they can handle that, they can handle practically any type of weapon. From a "lazy" zero-recoil PCP, to a large caliber center fire rifle. Especially now (here in Europe), that might come in handy when those damned Ruskies try to cross our border.



That man is a legend! I've haven't had the privilege yet. Most of us can learn a lot from that man.

Should springer shooters be shooting the same scores as the pcp shooters in field target?
I get that same look when i beat .22 powder burners at Bench rest with my "BB' gun ( Mac 1 USFT .177 #233 ) am trying to do the same with HW97 but it is a lot harder Why did my type switch ?

 

[beerthief]

Jonnes may yet prove his position that springers are just as accurate as PCPs but he posted two 200s with PCPs and a 185 he shot with a nice springer. I do not truly know one way or the other but the fact that the scores for springers are not on the 30 yard challenge thread or, to my knowledge, elsewhere suggests PCPs have an advantage when shot from a bench rest. That would not mean springers are not great airguns. I would be happy to be proved wrong but at this point I don't think springers are as accurate from a bench.

this is 30 yards yesterday , bench TX200 .177 12.25 FPE just playing with a new target i pasted up

 

[RCope]

I'm a little late to this thread (on vacation for a couple weeks). But in my limited experience (12 amazing springers and 4 high end PCP's), the best springer (for me FWB 150) cannot approach the accuracy and repeatability that the PCP's can. But I'm an inexperienced amateur that shoots in my back yard. So take my experience and opinion with a grain of salt. I routinely post in both the "what springer have you shot today" thread and the 30 yd challenge thread. My 192 with the FWB 150 was great, but I freely admit that the same rifle, in a better marksman's hands, could do a lot better. But even I shot a 200 with a Red Wolf.

I shoot off of a cheap front rest and a rear bag for both springers and PCP's, as do most of the competitors in the 30 yd thread. It is a friendly competition. I do have a new Seb AR 250 front rest that I'm anxious to dial in. Not that there is anything wrong with a "vice" for benchrest. And the scoring is normalized by using a .22 scoring plug. Without that, accurate scoring is really challenging. For example, @Jonnes scoring for 1B in his springer example is suspect as an "X" ;-).

Cheers! Rick