Springer vs. PCP
- Thread starter PNWTrekker
- Start date
Jonnes, you have a nice air rifle and that is a very good target. But shooting one nice group is not like touching a 1/8th inch 10 ring 20 times. Those of us that shoot the 30 yard challenge target have observed that many times. I've shot smaller groups than that but it doesn't prove much. I want me and my guns to be able to consistently hit what I shoot at. That is what benchrest shooting is all about. Groups are great for testing pellets but they are not like shooting a benchrest target.
I remain unconvinced, in other words. The pdf for the target is on the thread but if you want I'll put it in a pm if you ask. You just print it out and "waste" a few pellets. I hope you find it to be fun and do well. But if all you show me are nice groups I will be remain unconvinced your nice springer will shoot with even my inexpensive PCPs. I shot a 195 today with my Stoeger Bullshark in 22 caliber, for instance, in 5 mph winds. That gun has shot a 198 in my hands. I am not claiming to be a great shot, just providing examples of what I think a gun should be able to do to be considered very accurate.
View attachment 30-Yard Challenge Target.1654254248.pdf
I remain unconvinced, in other words. The pdf for the target is on the thread but if you want I'll put it in a pm if you ask. You just print it out and "waste" a few pellets. I hope you find it to be fun and do well. But if all you show me are nice groups I will be remain unconvinced your nice springer will shoot with even my inexpensive PCPs. I shot a 195 today with my Stoeger Bullshark in 22 caliber, for instance, in 5 mph winds. That gun has shot a 198 in my hands. I am not claiming to be a great shot, just providing examples of what I think a gun should be able to do to be considered very accurate.
View attachment 30-Yard Challenge Target.1654254248.pdf
Upvote 0
man you’re expensive! lol happy ending?
55-60 pumps is less than 2 minutes. i agree from zero is a task hehe
i don’t want to show the starting point. it’s a task from zero but 2 minutes every time after that is cake. i got the NUOGE pump for this very reason. wasted my money.
Upvote 0
I had a cheap compressor to start, it ran for a year. Gave it to my nephew when I bought my Tuxing dual cylinder. He has replaced the rings once. Still running about 3 years in. Granted he only fills a couple rifles.
That your experience was bad does not mean anyone else will have the same experience.
I am not going to waste my time hand pumping anything when I can use a compressor. Especially if you have more than one PCP or you only have one but use it regularly.
Upvote 0
i had one last 1 month. they replaced with a new one. lasted 2 months. then i got a gx-cs3
yes, i agree. a low capacity tube like notos is manageable with a hand pump. more guns.. nope. hard pass
Upvote 0
First of; don't be this condescending please, you don't know me, what I am or have done in life, nor do you know my (or my rifle's) capabilities. I've been shooting (this rifle, and many more) for quite some time now, even in national and international competitions here in Europe and elsewhere since 1987 in numerous air rifle, rimfire and long range centerfire competitions. Both as a private person, and professionally. I know what I - and my rifles - can and can't do, because I know them inside out, as if they are part of myself. This thing won many competitions already, during it's different phases of tuning over the past years. And in it's current state, it's a €1.600 euro costing springer that can most definitely compete with many PCP's, and it has because I tell you so. Telling me otherwise based on nothing but a gut feeling, is like you calling me I'm a liar. That's rather disrespectful.
That said; I think we also might have a definition problem here. Because in your opinion hitting a 4mm 10-ring consistently at 30 yards is accurate (and it is, don't get me wrong there!), and I say hitting a dime size target (or a rat's brain) consistently at 50 meters is accurate. And there it is, because it all depends on how much money you're willing to spend, what you want to achieve, your personal skills, and what the parameters are in the goals you're trying to achieve. I see people shooting 200 in the topic about the "30 yard challenge" with a fully custom built PCP match rifle from a benchrest vise. Sorry, but that is impossible to complete with, with a springer shooting off-hand. I even want to go as far that I say; shooting a rifle from a vise, where is the challenge in that?! But hey, that's my opinion. No sorry mate, what you do is comparing apples with oranges.
Also, I see different caliber sizes being used in this challenge, but as you surely know, a .25 caliber pellet makes bigger holes, this will - when shooting less accurate - hit the 10-ring more often, than the 1.4 times (in diameter) smaller .177 pellet. I don't see anyone compensating for that. Wait, let me get my .72 cal Beaumont PCP and compete with you in this, that will be fun and competitive... NOT!
I use this (.177) springer for pest control also, next to my FX Dreamline Tactical Compact (in .22). The FX (at low power) is for shorter distances (5 to 25 meters) in stables, this HW97 I shot mostly in the field for distances from 10 up to 50/55 meters. Both hitting rats in the nugget each and every time. Both doing their job accuratly in their respective fields.
So let's agree to disagree and conclude that it all depends on your capabilities, the level of tuning, and the purpose. TS is talking about getting his kid ready for the introduction into the shooting sports, and asks if a springer is as accurate as a PCP in that respect. And from that perspective, it abso-effing-lutely is, taking in account all relevant factors. In this case; a new shooter, being a small kid in this case, that needs the best tool to learn how to shoot. And for all novices, it is not a PCP (that's for lazy people) but a springer that wil teach you how to shoot properly.
Regardless, I'm always in for a challenge and willing to put my money where my mouth is, so I printed out 4 of these "30-yard challenge" targets and will shoot them as soon as the wind dies and the rain stops. I will shoot them with my FX Dreamline GRS in .22 caliber and with this .177 HW97 springer, because these are my two most accurate air rifles. I will get back to you with the results soon, you infidel!
Thanks, a couldn't agree more with you. This beaut has been in the making for years, and is now at the point that I just can't and won't try to improve it any more because it's perfect as it is now.
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Jonnes,
Great! I hope you shoot a 200 or at least 195 or better with one of your guns, hopefully your nice springer.
With respect to scoring we use a 22 caliber scoring plug regardless of caliber. I don't think it works great for 25 caliber holes but most people shoot 177 or 22 and it works well for those calibers. A scoring plug with magnification seems to be the most used but mine is just a turned cylinder with a scoring lip.. Works for me. I think a 25 has an advantage due to the hole size and even bigger more so but if your review the spreadsheet they are not often used. One of my 198s on the current year spreadsheet is with my P35-25, however.
We are shooting from a bench rest. At least one top shooter at least used to use bags. Many use a bipod in the front and a rear rest, sometimes one that is adjustable for elevation and windage. There is probably somebody with a really nice joystick rest. I am using a Caldwell Rock BR front rest that adjusts for windage and elevation this year but I shot my 2 200s in prior years with a bipod and home made windage and elevation adjustable monopod. I don't think there are any rules about what sort of rest you use. Anything you have should be fine.
Sorry if I was offensive in some way. You are right that we do not know each other. I am skeptical about springers and we still disagree about what a novice should start with but in the end that is up to the novice. I'm glad that you apparently enjoy both.
Jim
Great! I hope you shoot a 200 or at least 195 or better with one of your guns, hopefully your nice springer.
With respect to scoring we use a 22 caliber scoring plug regardless of caliber. I don't think it works great for 25 caliber holes but most people shoot 177 or 22 and it works well for those calibers. A scoring plug with magnification seems to be the most used but mine is just a turned cylinder with a scoring lip.. Works for me. I think a 25 has an advantage due to the hole size and even bigger more so but if your review the spreadsheet they are not often used. One of my 198s on the current year spreadsheet is with my P35-25, however.
We are shooting from a bench rest. At least one top shooter at least used to use bags. Many use a bipod in the front and a rear rest, sometimes one that is adjustable for elevation and windage. There is probably somebody with a really nice joystick rest. I am using a Caldwell Rock BR front rest that adjusts for windage and elevation this year but I shot my 2 200s in prior years with a bipod and home made windage and elevation adjustable monopod. I don't think there are any rules about what sort of rest you use. Anything you have should be fine.
Sorry if I was offensive in some way. You are right that we do not know each other. I am skeptical about springers and we still disagree about what a novice should start with but in the end that is up to the novice. I'm glad that you apparently enjoy both.
Jim
Upvote 0