Springer vs. PCP

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Ratzy said:
Only issue i have is cocking force. How easy is it for the child to cock the gun. If they are strong enough you are on the right track. Diana 34 is supposed to be easy, but I'd like to know first.
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An excellent springer (I own 2 of them) is the HW30S. My son and daughter learned to shoot with these rifles at the age of 6 and 7. This was actually my first air rifle I bought back in the early 80's. They are fun - for parent and kid - and (again) will last you a lifetime. You can't say that for the el-cheapo PCP stuff. And pumping up a PCP is a phase we've all been through, it get's tiring pretty fast.
 
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Jonnes said:
An excellent springer (I own 2 of them) is the HW30S. My son and daughter learned to shoot with these rifles at the age of 6 and 7. This was actually my first air rifle I bought back in the early 80's. They are fun - for parent and kid - and (again) will last you a lifetime. You can't say that for the el-cheapo PCP stuff. And pumping up a PCP is a phase we've all been through, it get's tiring pretty fast.
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Give the kids a workout until they are stronger. Then any break barrel is available.
 
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Jonnes said:
My guess is that they are according to these 10-shot groups, shot from the prone position, on 50-meter ISSF visuals shot from a distance of 25 meters.
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A great representation of what has been discussed here at 25 meters!

Repeat at 50m and 75m and the tables will likely turn, but you never know!! I think at 75m the pcp takes over with ease (likely due to the caliber, but recoil and hold sensitivity will certainly play a part). At 50m its likely the PCP will shine but at that distance a good springer can shoot well, if you have the room/time i'd love to see the results.
 
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I started with a D34 for ratting purposes, then I got a Daystate Regal and don't have a springer anymore although I would like to get an HW97 one day. I have an Umarex Notos that is my dedicated ratter, it is very affordable, accurate, compact, light and can easily be filled with a hand pump, this would be my suggestion to research. I have a RAW HMx & a Taipan Vet2 and the Notos is as accurate as these at close distances up to 20yds.
 
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JW. said:
A great representation of what has been discussed here at 25 meters!

Repeat at 50m and 75m and the tables will likely turn, but you never know!! I think at 75m the pcp takes over with ease (likely due to the caliber, but recoil and hold sensitivity will certainly play a part). At 50m its likely the PCP will shine but at that distance a good springer can shoot well, if you have the room/time i'd love to see the results.
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The HW97 springer is in .177 caliber and shoots the lighter 7.87 grain JSB's, so it's only logical that this rifle will be outshot by the .22's that shoot substantially faster with heavier pellets without practically any recoil. But under perfect (no-wind) conditions, the results should be more or less the same, with group sizes for all these rifles opening up a little bit due to differences in weight and size of the pellets. And that is what I mean by "springers can be just as accurate as PCP's ", just as long as you do each individual shot the same as the last one (hold, trigger control, breathing, between heartbeats, etc.). Same goes for my center fire and rim fire powder burners.

It's not that pellets will change it's trajectory spontaneously in those last 25 meters, so what you see here is more or less what you can expect up to 35 to 40 meters consistently. At longer ranges (especially beyond 50 meters), the .177 will lose of course, and the advantages of a larger caliber PCP will become more and more clear. Especially when shooting slugs!
 
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either way you go,springer or pcp, you will need to try several brands of pellets and pellet weights. Your best source for accurate pellets are the brands ( H&N Field Target Trophy {FTT} and JSB Diabolo ) Oh, order them from Pyramid Air. They package them the best and pellets are very easily dented. They also sell sample packs of pellets. good luck
 
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30 yards with a springer is going to get boring fast. you WILL try to shoot farther and when you realize that the springer won’t let you, you’re going to get a pcp. go for something easy to fill like a notos and a manual pump if you want to keep budget low. fill it up, shoot until about 1900-2000 psi and pump it up to keep minimal effort on pumping.
 
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daddypaddy said:
30 yards with a springer is going to get boring fast. you WILL try to shoot farther and when you realize that the springer won’t let you, you’re going to get a pcp. go for something easy to fill like a notos and a manual pump if you want to keep budget low. fill it up, shoot until about 1900-2000 psi and pump it up to keep minimal effort on pumping.
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Hand pumps start around $40

Compressor, start around $120 ($160 on Amazon)

Save $80 and spend a LOT of time pumping. How much is your time worth per hour?
 
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daddypaddy said:
55-60 pumps to fill from 2100-3650 psi. i agree that a compressor is a real time saver but not the compressor you sent a link for. i’ve had that one and it’s a big waste of money. how much is your pay per hour
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$250 if we like you
$300 otherwise.

55-60 pumps for a tiny tube/bottle that you have to do quite often. Which has to be done from zero at least one time.

The examples were just that. Show the starting point.
 
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daddypaddy said:
30 yards with a springer is going to get boring fast. you WILL try to shoot farther and when you realize that the springer won’t let you, you’re going to get a pcp. go for something easy to fill like a notos and a manual pump if you want to keep budget low. fill it up, shoot until about 1900-2000 psi and pump it up to keep minimal effort on pumping.
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Hate to disagree with you daddypaddy but both my springers 48 and 97K can easily compete any PCP of which I have 2 top tier models, at 40 and 50 yards...assuming they all have scopes and all use JSB Exact Monster 13.43 pellets. I am talking about .177 which is my caliber which competes and exceeds .22 at the longer ranges (13.43gr .177 at .22 pellet weight, but .177 flat trajectory). If you are talking about iron sights at 30 yds. you are correct....but that includes PCP's as well.
 
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1911Tex said:
Hate to disagree with you daddypaddy but both my springers 48 and 97K can easily compete any PCP of which I have 2 top tier models, at 40 and 50 yards...assuming they all have scopes and all use JSB Exact Monster 13.43 pellets. I am talking about .177 which is my caliber which competes and exceeds .22 at the longer ranges (13.43gr .177 at .22 pellet weight, but .177 flat trajectory). If you are talking about iron sights at 30 yds. you are correct....but that includes PCP's as well.
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hmm Op did say it was going to be for inking and no larger than squirrels… maybe a sprinter might suit his user case scenario better. i do have to say that even a cheapie pcp that’s properly tuned will perform at and most of the time better than almost all springer. they’re much easier to shoot accurately as well
 
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PNWTrekker said:
Thanks for all the advice, everyone. Given the input, I think I'll snoop around for a good deal on a Diana 34 or similar. As some of you mentioned, I will probably end up having a blast, slip fall down and accidently buy a PCP as well. Best case scenario, I get a springer I love and never stray. Worst case scenario, I end up with a springer and a PCP and have twice the fun.
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Slip fall down into a rabbit hole lol.
 
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daddypaddy said:
hmm Op did say it was going to be for inking and no larger than squirrels… maybe a sprinter might suit his user case scenario better. i do have to say that even a cheapie pcp that’s properly tuned will perform at and most of the time better than almost all springer. they’re much easier to shoot accurately as well
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PCP are absolutely easier to shoot.
Single shot, lever action, semiauto or full auto.

Bigger for me
No taking your eye(s) off the target to cock and load.
 
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I've stayed off this thread for awhile but I will repeat what I said earlier. All those who claim their springer is just as accurate as a PCP need to shoot a 30 yard challenge target and prove it. It's easy to type out a note and claim something. Prove it. Last I looked the best springer score as a 192 if I remember right. 200 is the goal and has been reached multiple times this year by PCPs. I have several 198s posted. Get up to 195 or better if you want to claim your springer can complete. You might be able, I am interested to see.

My 198s were not shot with PCPs that cost thousands of dollars, they were shot with PCPs that cost less than $500. Less than some of your springers. If you only look at one gun the cost of getting air to refill a PCP makes the cost higher but if you have several guns I do not think it is fair to argue springers are less expensive. It could go either way depending on what you choose. My latest compressor was a GX CS2 with cost $250 delivered from GX last I looked. That is not my only fill option but I also have 8 PCPs so my compressor/gun cost is not that significant relative to the cost of the guns. Getting air to my guns cost me less than $100/gun to have two compressors and a bottle with fill set. When you start with mostly relatively inexpensive guns your total cost is still not excessive.
 
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JimD said:
All those who claim their springer is just as accurate as a PCP need to shoot a 30 yard challenge target and prove it. It's easy to type out a note and claim something. Prove it.
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30 yards is 27.5 meters, this was shot at 25 meters. Those 2.5 meters aren't going to make much difference.

I disagree with you, a springer can absolutely be just as accurate as a PCP. It has been proven many times over, and during competitions I frequently outshoot PCP's at 25 and 50 meters. A well tuned high quality springer like this one in the right hands, can absolutely do that. Proof? Here you have it! Yes, it this thing costs twice the amount of a standard FX DRS, but still... it's a springer.

IMG_1660.jpg
 
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Jonnes said:
30 yards is 27.5 meters, this was shot at 25 meters. Those 2.5 meters aren't going to make much difference.

I disagree with you, a springer can absolutely be just as accurate as a PCP. It has been proven many times over, and during competitions I frequently outshoot PCP's at 25 and 50 meters. A well tuned high quality springer like this one in the right hands, can absolutely do that. Proof? Here you have it! Yes, it this thing costs twice the amount of a standard FX DRS, but still... it's a springer.

View attachment 578388
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Great for you Jonnes.....I love my HW97K as well! Super accurate, smooth and oozes quality. And the best part...no compressor, no filters, no worry about running out of shots. Need it at a spur of the moment...grab it and go! If you are in for experimenting, pick up a tin of JSB Exact Monster 13.43gr; another super accurate 97K load....with a heavy body of a .22 and flat trajectory of a .177.......FUN! Best part your generations down the line will enjoy your 97K as well....my 48 dated 2012 purchased new fires like fine watch today....I wonder how my PCP's will operate 13 years from now or even 5 years from now? I know your 97K and my 13 year old 48 will run perfectly well another 13+++++years in the future.
 
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