Thanks for the update Tommy
Only to 250 bar....hmmm
Nope...it stays in the box as a costly reminder not to buy gimmicks + i couldn't sell it in good conscious. I think it is junk
Hope the repairs hold out
Mike
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EaZy Trigger Fill for PCPs
- Thread starter tommyb
- Start date
Only to 250 bar....hmmm
Nope...it stays in the box as a costly reminder not to buy gimmicks + i couldn't sell it in good conscious. I think it is junk
Hope the repairs hold out
Mike
I don't want to be an @rse but where you guys finding 300 bars refilling from a bottle? Especially from those small ones.I tried several times to top up my 14L bottles (I believe these are the largest scba we have seen so far) to 300 bars with multiple last push, after an hour cool down max I was reading on the digital gauge about 280 ish. So I gave up pushing my compressor so hard several runs only to get a very last 10%.
Just asking for a friend
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Getting a fill from a dive shop or a paintbal store, they will fill to 4500 psi.
I tried several times to top up my 14L bottles (I believe these are the largest scba we have seen so far) to 300 bars with multiple last push, after an hour cool down max I was reading on the digital gauge about 280 ish. So I gave up pushing my compressor so hard several runs only to get a very last 10%.
Just asking for a friend
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I refill with a nice slow, cool Shoebox compressor, so I don't lose much of anything on cool down - maybe a few bar, but no more than about 5 or so. So a fill to 4500 psi easily ends up a bit over 300 bar. The first few fills are easily that high out of the 9L, but I used to have the issue you face when all I used was my Joe B Guppy, which I think is a 1.8L or so bottle. That was part of why I added the 9L to the mix . . .
I tried several times to top up my 14L bottles (I believe these are the largest scba we have seen so far) to 300 bars with multiple last push, after an hour cool down max I was reading on the digital gauge about 280 ish. So I gave up pushing my compressor so hard several runs only to get a very last 10%.
Just asking for a friend
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Not only that but $150 is a lot of money for a problematic 1st generation device that is having frequent repair issues from our members.
I wonder if Brian is working on an updated more reliable EzAy fill 2 to replace the first generation. Even if so, I would not pay another $150.
I will report back on this thread once I get the replacement and see how it goes.
Honestly, for some owners like me, I didn’t use it above 250 BAR max fills. I personally can attest that my dive shop fill intervals were longer using the device. I could physically look at my GW tank pressure gauge and easily assess if I was conserving air based on 8-10, or more top off from 175 BAR as an example.
It makes sense if you only bleed once vs 8-10 times during a session that a user must be saving some air from which is in the hose.
But, I understand your frustration and only hope the new one works better.
I’m not holding my breath.
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After thinking more about this 250 bar "recommendation," the more ridiculous and nonsensical I think it is (no offense to you Tom as you were sharing what they said - it's meant for EdGun . . . ).
This device is intended to be used on the output of an SCBA tank to control the amount of air being fed into guns. So by definition, and by design it will be put on full SCBA tanks that will have the valve opened with full pressure applied to the device - so up to 310 bar from a full tank, restraining it all against no restriction until hooked to a gun and opened up to flow air. That is the highest load it will see - when not actually flowing air. If EdGun was worried about the strress of flowing air rather than static load, the worst condition would be filling an empty tank from a full SCBA - a 310 bar active "flowing load" into a zero bar reservoir. As the reservoir fills, the flowing differential drops and thus the flowing load would drop. Stopping at 250 bar leaves a flowing load of ~50 bar, followed by up to ~300 bar "static load" as soon as the valve closes as the 250 bar would be vented - which is the same load the device saw before the fill (technically a bit less as some air from the tank would have been sent to the gun). Filling guns to higher pressures should be no more stress on the fill device as the flow will eventually balance with no "flowing load" occuring at all (which is what happens with high fill guns like thir L2). Do they honestly believe that their "durability issues" are caused by the air that has already flown through the valve?
Bottom line, I think they are just making excuses, as their statements don't even stand up to the physics involved in what they are talking about. So if they are having durability issues, the device is under designed, it is not being misused by anyone, even if the line is left charged for long periods of time - do we expect our SCBA valves to fail because the tanks are full for long periods of time? I'll admit that venting the line when not in use is probably a good safety practice, but it should not be required for longevity of their fill device. If they are having durability issues, EdGun needs to get their act together and either fix or recall the products (or at least offer a discounted exchange program to current owners on an improved version).
I plan to continue to use mine, and may repair it at least once if needed as I already have one repair kit, but I certainly won't be buying another unless it is fixed in the future - nor any other EdGun products, for that matter . . . That said, if it ever does anything I feel is unsafe it will be in the trash ASAP.
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D
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Bingo! They think everyone is a moron. This device had been poorly designed, maybe on purpose...
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Alan, very well said. If… I thought Brian or anyone would listen, I would love to have them read this entire post.
The concept and use are great, kudos to them for the invention. Time to up their game and engineer a much better product!
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I have my Ez-Fill since day one it surfaced.
In very beginning I had to fix the seal inside ones because of a user error, and ones to re-tune the valve/ball spring in February sub -20C.
This thing is serviceable very easy but oh well cannot expect everyone is a mechanic.
Anyway, this is working for several years flawless for me, I have never paid attention was that any 250 bar limit but more likely about 280 ish as I know that I am topping up my airtanks reasonably well.
I am maintaining all my toys well and I am impressed with Edgun engineering and quality.
Do I am getting it in a bad way that some of the opponent posters leaning a bit political? I have no other explanation for some complains and how those were addressed. Anyway, you do with your money whatever you want.
In very beginning I had to fix the seal inside ones because of a user error, and ones to re-tune the valve/ball spring in February sub -20C.
This thing is serviceable very easy but oh well cannot expect everyone is a mechanic.
Anyway, this is working for several years flawless for me, I have never paid attention was that any 250 bar limit but more likely about 280 ish as I know that I am topping up my airtanks reasonably well.
I am maintaining all my toys well and I am impressed with Edgun engineering and quality.
Do I am getting it in a bad way that some of the opponent posters leaning a bit political? I have no other explanation for some complains and how those were addressed. Anyway, you do with your money whatever you want.
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I have not had mine as long as you, but I've said in this post and others that I've had it for a few years, used it a lot and that it has worked well for me and that I like it. But many others have had issues, and I seriously doubt that their issues are based on politics . . . .
I too fix and do pretty much everything myself, but that's not for everyone. When someone spends the kind of money that these things cost (the originals, not the knock-offs) then they should work or be made right ASAP. No excuses - premium brand with premium prices, so deliver the premium experience. Stop blaming the customer - these are simple devices (in terms of use) and should work as advertised.
I'll say I that I don't like what Putin is doing in the world (who does, other than his oligarchs and the like) but I don't hold normal Russian companies or citizens to blame for that - nor do I think most others do either. People may choose to not deal with a Russian company out of principle, and that is their right - but I doubt they would fake an issue over it. When people have issues and the company spews the BS that Tom was told, they should be called out for it. I'll say I sense no "political bias" in this thread at all. Nobody but you has raised it - that is just a poor defense of EdGun on this matter . . . .
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I asked Brian from Edgun West to clarify a couple of concerns mentioned in this thread. Below is our email exchange.
Brian,
Can you respond/ address this issue?
As I understand it, if you have a fill tank that is filled to 4500 psi ( 310 BAR ), the EzAY fill will bleed out the air in the fill tank from 310 BAR until it reaches 300 BAR because of the 300 BAR burst disk on the EzAY fill trigger. If so, it is actually wasting 350 PSI in the 4500 psi Great White, as an example.
Also, is it true that Edgun West actually recommends not filling guns past 250 BAR, even though it is rated to 300 BAR.
I am going to update my AGN post to reflect your clarification.
Thanks
Tom
Brian,
Can you respond/ address this issue?
As I understand it, if you have a fill tank that is filled to 4500 psi ( 310 BAR ), the EzAY fill will bleed out the air in the fill tank from 310 BAR until it reaches 300 BAR because of the 300 BAR burst disk on the EzAY fill trigger. If so, it is actually wasting 350 PSI in the 4500 psi Great White, as an example.
Also, is it true that Edgun West actually recommends not filling guns past 250 BAR, even though it is rated to 300 BAR.
I am going to update my AGN post to reflect your clarification.
Thanks
Tom
1. Burst Disk on the EaZy
The burst disk on the EZAY is set to rupture around 350 BAR, not 300. It's a last-resort safety device—not a regulator or bleed valve. It doesn't "bleed off" excess pressure at 300 BAR. If your supply tank is at 310 BAR, the EZAY will still fill your gun until either you stop the fill or equilibrium is reached.
The burst disk is passive it only activates if pressure spikes above its rating. In other words, it's there in case something goes wrong, not as a pressure regulator. If your supply tank is at 310 BAR, the EZAY doesn't start venting at 301. You're still filling until equilibrium is reached, or you shut it off. The only way you're "losing" air is if the disk fails, which would indicate either a faulty disk or an over-pressurized scenario, neither of which should happen under normal conditions.
If you're losing pressure in your Great White down to 300 BAR just by connecting the EZAY, that's either a misdiagnosis or something else in your setup is leaking or venting. The more likely cause is
Gay-Lussac's Law
At constant volume, the pressure of a gas is directly proportional to its temperature.
In other words:
- P₁ / T₁ = P₂ / T₂
2. Why I Tell People to Stop at 250 BAR
- Let's clear this up, too.
- I don't say that because it's unsafe. All Edguns are rated for 300 BAR fills—they're built for it, tested for it, and safe if you go that high.
- I recommend 250 BAR in practical terms, especially when you're filling from a large tank like a Great White, because:
- The last 50 BAR takes disproportionately more energy (the pressure differential drops, so the flow slows).
- The frictional heat and flow resistance at those final few BARs cost you efficiency.
- You'll get more usable fills out of your supply tank if you stop at 250, rather than trying to cram every last bar in.
- It's like topping off a battery to 100%—technically acceptable, but less efficient and potentially stressful to the system over time.
- Therefore, the recommendation to fill to 250 BAR is primarily about efficiency and maximizing your supply tank, rather than safety.
- The last 50 BAR takes disproportionately more energy (the pressure differential drops, so the flow slows).
- The frictional heat and flow resistance at those final few BARs cost you efficiency.
- You'll get more usable fills out of your supply tank if you stop at 250, rather than trying to cram every last bar in.
The Physics Behind the 250 BAR Recommendation
- We'll use the Ideal Gas Law and concepts from isentropic flow to explain why filling to 250 BAR is more efficient when pulling from a supply tank (like a Great White at 310 BAR).
1. Ideal Gas Law:
- PV=nRTPV=nRT
- At constant temperature and tank volume, pressure is proportional to the number of moles of air (n). That means the difference between 250 BAR and 300 BAR isn't linear in terms of usable fills it's exponential in terms of energy required and volume extracted.
2. Available Fills from a Supply Tank:
- Let's assume your supply tank is 12L at 310 BAR, and your gun reservoir is 0.25L.
- To find out how many fills you get from your tank to different pressures, we use:
- n=P⋅VRTn=RTP⋅V
- But what matters here is the usable pressure delta during the fill:
- If you're filling from 310 BAR down to:
- 250 BAR, you have a 60 BAR pressure differential.
- At 300 BAR, you have only 10 BAR before the tank pressure drops below usable levels.
- Because flow rate and energy transfer depend on ΔP (pressure differential), the closer your fill target is to the supply pressure, the slower and less efficient the transfer becomes.
- 250 BAR, you have a 60 BAR pressure differential.
- At 300 BAR, you have only 10 BAR before the tank pressure drops below usable levels.
3. Why It's Less Efficient to Push to 300 BAR
- As pressure equalizes, your mass flow rate (ṁ) drops:
- m˙∝2⋅ΔP/ρm˙∝2⋅ΔP/ρ
- So, when ΔP is small (e.g., a tank at 310, trying to fill to 300), the flow slows, heat builds up from friction, and you waste time and energy.
- Meanwhile, your usable air volume decreases at high pressures. Here's a basic comparison:
- Usable fills
- ≈Vsupply⋅(Pstart−Pend)Vgun⋅(Pfill−Pgun start)Usable fills≈Vgun⋅(Pfill-Pgun start)Vsupply⋅(Pstart-Pend)
- Filling to 250 BAR instead of 300 BAR drastically increases the number of fills because you're not trying to squeeze every last drop out of the pressure delta. You're also not dumping as much energy into heat.
Hope this clears everything up for you
Brian
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WHAT!! I'm sorry, but this is crap. Scientific , but still crap. It's leaks and i am making a misdiagnosis.
Thank you Tommy for going the extra distance to resolve the issue
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I did not comment on it before, but I did not see how the Eazy Fill could accomplish what you were describing - it clearly does not have a regulator in it, and burst discs work by "bursting" when their pressure level is exceeded, so they vent everything after they burst.
I do think that what they said is correct - there must be some kind of leak occurring when you hook yours up . . .
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Everything he said is physically true, but he is misapplying where the events occur. The heating and "loss of efficiency" (more on that later) occurs in the tank, not at the valve. The fill valve actually experiences a cooling effect as it is the restriction in it that leads to the pressure drop as the air flows from the high pressure tank to the low pressure tank (for fellow old timers, think of carburetor icing in the right conditions for it back in the day - freezing up when the temp is above freezing).
The "lost of efficiency" can only be measured in fill time, not in actual air usage - no air is "lost" from the system doing these fills either way (250 bar or 300 bar) other than what is vented after the fill. I will admit that my fill method on my Huben with my Eazy Fill is "wasteful" (I hold it open to fill to whatever is in my 9L tank, and yes it slows down a lot at the end - then I let it go and vent it, and wait 10-15 seconds or more then hit it again to top it up the rest of the way, "wasting" a second vent of the small amount of air in the Eazy Fill, but gaining probably 15 or more bars into the gun, which is close to a full mag of shots).
Nothing written in his response speaks to why 250 bar fills would be better for the fill device than 300 bar fills, other than his inccorect comment about heating (which does not apply to the fill device, other than when the line to it is initially pressurized).
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I'm using a clone from Aliexpress. The 1st one I bought worked after I adjusted the trigger. I liked it so much I bought another, but from a different supplier from Aliexpress. That one leaked forever, once the trigger was pulled. After attempting repairs I returned for full refund.
Can't see paying a premium price for the real deal when it also has issues and poor support!
Can't see paying a premium price for the real deal when it also has issues and poor support!
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