Compressor damaging internals

[jarmstrong]

THE MALE FOSTER on my cheapo easy fill that only see tank to gun has very little pressure indentation, I need a magnifing glass to see
well,,, like ya said, yours was used on a compressor, while shoebox has a lesser effect,,, my most damage was done by a yong heng,, used for a short while,,, it did the mushrooming of the brass probe,,, my coltri does less damage with a lot more use, I believe it is because of the water/air seperator and desicant towers act as buffers, that the yong heng was lacking, and also since I got my bottle for filling my Weihrauch 110 and 44, it's probe fitting (male foster) has suffered no more damage,,, from bottle to gun-tank filling.
Every stroke of the piston creates vibration, the speed of vibration increases damage,, we did vibrational analysis of rotating equipment to measure the vibration, speed and amplitude,, it has affect on equipment longevity (old power plant mechanic)
I am well aware of the condition of my equipment and know when and how to replace or repair, I prefer my probes have threaded end, instead of the one piece probe/foster, so I can change just the foster half on my factory probe,,, the brass one is for my SPA P-15 china cheap stuff, good thing I have extras,,, fosters are wear points, they wearout , break , fail
while pressure indentation does exist ,, especially on brass and not all steel has the same hardness,, the pulse is far more damaging due to it's multiple hammering ,,, peening the dog turds out of it,, what wears out shockabsorbers?and associated parts? smooth road or washboard road

Quote, "it only raises the pressure in the Guppy tank about 32 psi per minute.",,, but you have to run it longer,,, it adds up to more pulses

 

[JimNM]

Cumulative wear is a whole lot different than the OP wild statement about ruination and blind accusation that a "cheap" compressor will RUIN an expensive gun. There are so many logic holes in the premise as stated, and never addressed, that we now have 2 different topics in the same thread.

Yes, I have ball bearing indents on my YH fitting. Yes, I can see how the high-speed hammering of the machine can transfer the force from the air column to the connectors. Yes and Yes. Point agreed. I also see how the higher the pressure gets, the more energy will transfer as the density of the compressed gasses increases. I have not run my YH since I got my GX3 and now GX4 pumps. I don't like to have to wear hearing protection while I refill my tanks.

It is not an issue of cost i.e. "cheap" vs. luxury pumps, nor is the cost of the airgun a factor in the rate and extent of the damage formula.

Thanks to those who have enlightened me. I will be more aware of the condition of my foster connections. I will try to limit direct to gun fills to on the go scenarios where carrying a bottle or two is not feasible.

 

[Chasdog]

I had read somewhere on one of these forums when I was just getting into airgunning that the pulsing of a compressor can damage the internals of a pcp air rifle. Since then I for the most part only fill from my scba tank.
Also started out with a noisy shoebox compressor that definitely had a pulsing rhythm. The cs4i has more of a softer tone.
Anyway I’m not sure one way or the other if it matters how you fill your gun.

 

[BSJ]

This is all silly. Every time you fire the gun, the reg. is "impacted" by a pulse of air.

Should we stop shooting them to prevent this catastrophic damage?

 

[M4Slugger]

Ever been to a Costco tire shop? Costco solved the vibration from pneumatic impact wrenches by using a "whip hose " approximately 6' long connected to the "impact wrench" then the "plug / nipple" and "coupling" are isolated from the wrenches "impacts" i.e. vibrations..

 

[Gerry52]

I cannot see what difference filling from a compressor could be any different than filling from a tank except for possible moisture ? I do not have tanks only a Omega compressor . Does a tank fill a gun faster ? high pressure Zap your filled ?

Takes about 15 or 20 seconds to air up a gun bottle from a tank. Heard it takes a couple or 3 minutes from a compressor.

 

[cavedweller]

All of my fittings are steel, so I only really can show it on the one fitting that has seen almost every fill I've ever done - the ones on the guns don't show much of anything, at least that would show up in a picture.

This is from the output of my Guppy tank, which I use for almost all fills. Thus it has seen both the input and the output usage of almost all of my airflows - over probably 3500 SCF of net airflow. So yes, it has also been connected to the compressor for fills to 4500 psi, but that compressor is a Shoebox Max that fills very slowly - it has a tiny 1/8" diameter final stage piston, and it only raises the pressure in the 18 CF capacity Guppy tank about 32 psi per minute.

Remember that those tiny ball contact points (between 4 and 6 of them, depending on Foster fitting; I use ones with 6 balls) are where all of the loading occurs from the fill pressure - 4500 psi line pressure restrained by at most 1-2 square mm of contact area. This is why I only use steel fittings and not brass . . . .

Here is what it looks like - less dramatic as it is steel and not brass, but the ball dents are still there. I'm sure you will discount it because it did have air flow into it from a compressor, but I am right on this one. People have had those brass fill fittings fail on them - I'd suggest either sourcing one in steel, or getting new ones when your brass ones start to show much more wear.

View attachment 591679

I only use steel fittings!
all three guns mentioned only had one thing in common - the cheap compressor charging them directly.
im still waiting on specifics but id take my warning to the bank. Charge/cascade fill is better for your Airgun.

 

[cavedweller]

Cumulative wear is a whole lot different than the OP wild statement about ruination and blind accusation that a "cheap" compressor will RUIN an expensive gun. There are so many logic holes in the premise as stated, and never addressed, that we now have 2 different topics in the same thread.

Yes, I have ball bearing indents on my YH fitting. Yes, I can see how the high-speed hammering of the machine can transfer the force from the air column to the connectors. Yes and Yes. Point agreed. I also see how the higher the pressure gets, the more energy will transfer as the density of the compressed gasses increases. I have not run my YH since I got my GX3 and now GX4 pumps. I don't like to have to wear hearing protection while I refill my tanks.

It is not an issue of cost i.e. "cheap" vs. luxury pumps, nor is the cost of the airgun a factor in the rate and extent of the damage formula.

Thanks to those who have enlightened me. I will be more aware of the condition of my foster connections. I will try to limit direct to gun fills to on the go scenarios where carrying a bottle or two is not feasible.

Please remember that reporting a “thing” is not “ accusing “ anything - it is simply advisory in nature. I believe that a Daystate revere, an FX Crown were at least two of the damaged new guns.

 

[cavedweller]

The three damaged guns we’re - a Daystate Sapphire, a Daystate Revere, and a FX Crown. Still do not know the name brand of the compressor but it was one of the “cheap ones“ off of Amazon.

 

[JimNM]

Wear...........Damage........"Ruined" ...... Nuclear Mushroom cloud.... - what's the diff, eh? All the same to you? Words are neat, Words are powerful - but DIFFERENT word mean DIFFERENT things. That is how words work. I would think that as a professional man in Uniform that accurate usage of the written language would be priority for you. At the end of the dayt, you are not an E-5 rating.

I detest sloppy communication.

I detest snobs who look down on things that are "below" them.

"Cheap" compressor works just like any other compressor - squeeze and push air from outside to inside. You imply that just because an items costs less than another that it is somehow responsible for the increased wear rate. Your prejudice is showing.

Good day, sir.

 

[cavedweller]

Wear...........Damage........"Ruined" ...... Nuclear Mushroom cloud.... - what's the diff, eh? All the same to you? Words are neat, Words are powerful - but DIFFERENT word mean DIFFERENT things. That is how words work. I would think that as a professional man in Uniform that accurate usage of the written language would be priority for you. At the end of the dayt, you are not an E-5 rating.

I detest sloppy communication.

I detest snobs who look down on things that are "below" them.

"Cheap" compressor works just like any other compressor - squeeze and push air from outside to inside. You imply that just because an items costs less than another that it is somehow responsible for the increased wear rate. Your prejudice is showing.

Good day, sir.

I’m in agreement that good communication is indeed important. But it’s also important to report things in hopes that others may chime in and help us all learn. I’d hate to be the owner of an expensive airgun only to accidentally ruin it AND void a warranty.
I suspect that we will learn much more about this particular issue as more information becomes available.

 

[cavedweller]

This is all silly. Every time you fire the gun, the reg. is "impacted" by a pulse of air.

Should we stop shooting them to prevent this catastrophic damage?

We definitely should not stop using our Airguns as designed. But, we should become very aware of our air source quality and our high pressure charging systems/ methods for a multitude of reasons.

 

[cavedweller]

Anyone new to PCP Airguns should take the time to educate themselves about high pressure air and the dangers associated with it, and the potential issues that can occur from any charging system like compressors, expensive or inexpensive:

Google Search

 

[cavedweller]

Anyone new to PCP Airguns should take the time to educate themselves about high pressure air and the dangers associated with it, and the potential issues that can occur from any charging system like compressors, expensive or inexpensive:

Google Search

edit-these words are from the web and not my own

yes inexpensive high pressure air compressors can damage airguns,
primarily due to the risk of moisture contamination, oil carryover, and overfilling. While these tools make filling a Pre-Charged Pneumatic (PCP) airgun more convenient than a hand pump, it is critical to use them correctly and take precautions to protect your equipment.

Primary risks to airguns

Moisture contamination

• The problem: Compressing air generates heat, which causes water vapor in the air to condense. Inexpensive compressors often have less effective filtration systems, allowing this moisture to pass into the airgun's air cylinder.
• The damage: Water inside the air cylinder will lead to rust and corrosion, especially on steel and aluminum components. This corrosion weakens the metal and can cause catastrophic failure over time.

Oil carryover

• The problem: Many compressors use oil for lubrication. Some budget models may have insufficient separation, causing aerosolized oil to be pushed into the airgun.
• The damage: Oil contamination can damage the airgun's internal seals and components. It can also contaminate the air itself, which affects shot consistency and accuracy.

Overfilling

• The problem: All PCP airguns have a maximum rated fill pressure (e.g., 3,000 PSI). Carelessly using a powerful compressor can quickly exceed this limit.
• The damage: Overfilling stresses the air cylinder beyond its design limits, weakening the material over time and increasing the risk of a dangerous rupture. It can also damage the gun's regulator and valve components, even if a catastrophic failure doesn't occur.

Rapid heating

• The problem: Filling an air cylinder too quickly with a compressor can cause the air to rapidly heat up.
• The damage: This rapid thermal expansion can damage the airgun's seals, which are often made of rubber or plastic.

How to mitigate the risks
To use a compressor with a PCP airgun safely and prevent damage, follow these best practices:

• Add an external filtration system: Most inexpensive compressors benefit from an aftermarket air filter and dryer to more effectively strip moisture and oil from the compressed air. Look for a filter with color-changing desiccant to indicate when it needs to be replaced.
• Fill slowly: Fill your airgun in gradual, short bursts instead of one continuous fill. This prevents the air cylinder from overheating and damaging seals.
• Use the correct pressure: Always check your airgun's manual for the maximum fill pressure and use a reliable, separate gauge to monitor the fill. Never exceed the manufacturer's recommended pressure.
• Inspect and maintain: Regularly inspect all hoses, fittings, and O-rings for wear and tear, and replace them as needed. Also, perform routine maintenance on your compressor according to the manufacturer's instructions.
• Bleed the line: After filling, and before disconnecting the hose, always use the bleed valve to release the remaining pressure in the line. This prevents fittings from snapping off unexpectedly.

 

[JimD]

I have some issues with your explanation of risks, Cavedweller, but your recommendations are pretty good in my opinion. I don't fill in multiple runs but I don't fill guns from my Yong Heng. It fills my bottle. My CS2 fills guns slowly because that is all it can do.

With respect to your risks discussion, heating up air allows it to carry more moisture, not less. Compressing it doesn't allow it to carry nearly as much moisture, however. The air gets heated in that process which allows it to carry some of the moisture out of the compressor but as it cools the moisture will come out. That is why my lines run up hill to the filters so the water can condense and run back to the YH where I vent it (every 5 minutes). Why this happens is not terribly important, however. Moisture in the air inside the guns is not at all a good thing. I do not understand what it does to aluminum but I don't think it is best described as "rust". But it can be damaging which is what is important.

I can fill my guns really fast from my bottle and if I do the air heats up as you describe. But as long as I stay under the maximum pressure for the gun the only impact is I have less air to use in the gun. It will cool and the pressure will go down. So it's better to fill slowly as you recommend.

 

[cavedweller]

I have some issues with your explanation of risks, Cavedweller, but your recommendations are pretty good in my opinion. I don't fill in multiple runs but I don't fill guns from my Yong Heng. It fills my bottle. My CS2 fills guns slowly because that is all it can do.

With respect to your risks discussion, heating up air allows it to carry more moisture, not less. Compressing it doesn't allow it to carry nearly as much moisture, however. The air gets heated in that process which allows it to carry some of the moisture out of the compressor but as it cools the moisture will come out. That is why my lines run up hill to the filters so the water can condense and run back to the YH where I vent it (every 5 minutes). Why this happens is not terribly important, however. Moisture in the air inside the guns is not at all a good thing. I do not understand what it does to aluminum but I don't think it is best described as "rust". But it can be damaging which is what is important.

I can fill my guns really fast from my bottle and if I do the air heats up as you describe. But as long as I stay under the maximum pressure for the gun the only impact is I have less air to use in the gun. It will cool and the pressure will go down. So it's better to fill slowly as you recommend.

@JimD
Thanks - I just caught that the copy and paste I used left the link out … so the words are not directly mine, and are google search related.

 

[Avator]

Just curious...
Do any of these big money gun makers warn against using budget compressors to fill their products?
Do they recommend using any particular brands? Are we at risk of voiding warranties if don't adhere to those recommendations if they do exist?

 

[cavedweller]

Just curious...
Do any of these big money gun makers warn against using budget compressors to fill their products?
Do they recommend using any particular brands? Are we at risk of voiding warranties if don't adhere to those recommendations if they do exist?

Good question! No direct warnings that I have ever read. But, I bought a very new but used pcp once that was still under a 3 year warranty, when the regulator failed within two weeks of my possession, we learned the failure was from substantial internal corrosion / pitting etc to the regulator that could only have come from bad air. My warranty claim was rightfully denied. lesson learned. I use a very good Alkin compressor with a very good moisture separator to fill my air bottles, so we knew it was from the previous owners air system. That said I’ll do some research as ??? I Dunno.

 

[Chasdog]

Good question! No direct warnings that I have ever read. But, I bought a very new but used pcp once that was still under a 3 year warranty, when the regulator failed within two weeks of my possession, we learned the failure was from substantial internal corrosion / pitting etc to the regulator that could only have come from bad air. My warranty claim was rightfully denied. lesson learned. I use a very good Alkin compressor with a very good moisture separator to fill my air bottles, so we knew it was from the previous owners air system. That said I’ll do some research as ??? I Dunno.

Very interesting topic here. I have been following it and curios about learning a bit more.

 

[Avator]

Yep, might be a good question for some of these manufacturers. We all know that it's important to keep moisture out of our guns and tanks but this is the first time I've considered this surging of the slow speed compressors and the affects they may have on the guns (regulators and valves). I don't think it's much of an issue with tanks.
But if I think about it, as mentioned before, every shot produces a surge as the regulator and valve recharge after each shot.