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glr59

Member
Sep 23, 2019
202
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Midlothian, VA USA
So to give background I have been competing in WFTF and HFT for about 20yrs now. Have a lot of experience off my knee and bucket and sticks. The long range game intrigues me(100yards with pellets) Enter Long range FT. I shoot FT with a TM1000 .177cal so I purchased an HM1000X .22cal for 100yard FT. I quickly found out 30cal would be better so with the help of a very generous individual I converted to 30cal. Here is where I start scratching my head. I figured I'd shoot off of a bench to test for the best pellets and move to bucket and sticks for FT competition. I set the HM1000x on a front and rear rest and I say to myself this is going to be a piece of cake. I've never had a scope so steady in my life. Well I set my cards out at 100yards and I can't group for crap! It was suggested to go back to 50yards and start over. I've shot a couple times and my 50 yards groups still arent acceptable to me. I shot again today on bucket and sticks both the HM1000x and TM1000. Not much difference in groups compared to off the bench. I'm completely confused, other than I'm NOT a bench rest shooter at this point. This bench rest thing may be some black magic.
Any thoughts or ideas would be welcome. I wouldn't mind trying N50 or EBR to save my old back but I dont want to embarrass myself either.

By the way I think the Jts 45 gr shoot better than the AEA 45gr. The 45grain pellets are shooting at 880fps and the 50grAEA at 845fps
Now that I'm looking at these pictures before I post the Bucket and sticks groups are better. WTF

Jerry L

Bench 1.jpg


bench 2.jpg


bucket&sticks.jpg
 
I'm not a 30cal shooter, but I have two 1000x rifles (22 and 25) and the 25 shot sort of like that till I emailed Martin and asked his opinion. He suggested upping the hammer spring to increase the speed and voila, that brought the groups and placement in where they should be. I suggest either calling or emailing him. https://www.airguns-usa.com/
 
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rsfrid said:
I'm not a 30cal shooter, but I have two 1000x rifles (22 and 25) and the 25 shot sort of like that till I emailed Martin and asked his opinion. He suggested upping the hammer spring to increase the speed and voila, that brought the groups and placement in where they should be. I suggest either calling or emailing him. https://www.airguns-usa.com/
Click to expand...
Can I ask what velocities you are using?
 
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FT and BR are two very different games. Your FT KZ at 50 yards is at least 3/4". Your BR "X" at 50 yards is 1/8". At 100 yards the BR "X" is still only, what, 1/2 - 3/8"?

BR is a game of splitting hairs. As JEFFPPC said, he who reads the wind best wins. Your gun must be very consistent, and you must know what the wind will do to your pellet.
 
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JimNM said:
Here is a little bit of Zen for your bench rest kit.

FLAGS do not show you when to shoot...
...they show you when NOT to shoot.

Flag observation and time management will both increase your scores.
Click to expand...
I agree.....and disagree.
Flags can show you when not to shoot, especially not in a reverse. But once you learn them, flags most definitely DO tell you when to shoot. When you sit down at the bench you should know what your looking for and only shoot when you get it. Lack of patience will hurt you but proper time management will be your friend. You need a clock on your bench.
A wind probe tells me when not to shoot if I put one out but a often do not, flags tell all.
 
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I am new to probes having recently added two to my set of flags. I like them and was told they tell me when not to shoot which is a quicker visual indicator than judging wind velocity by the sail tails. However, indicators only give you the most valid information in full value winds and the tails give you information in any wind angle.
 
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I see nothing horribly wrong with your tests? I see potential , there are 2 things I would avoid if you can? (Ok, three or 4)

1st, it is very difficult to get true barrel/tune/pellet potential outdoors! It will just frustrate you? Wind, temp even if fairly calm makes it pretty hard?
Once you know your guns potential ? Have at it, but benchrest is a constant road of seek perfection! Starting a pellet tune combo in a 7mph wind is tuff, I would only do this to just get a glimps of course info, but bench is a game of .010 “, not inches. At 100, you are looking for a .5’’ gun if you do your part, (5 or more shots and move around, lift your head)

2nd, as stated earlier , you really need to be sticking with one pellet at a time and put it through its paces, I like to go from 850-970, especially in 30 cal, do not mix pellets, they will drive you crazy! AEA pellets or JTS will kill my barrels for a time if I have been shooting JSB, until cleaned and reseasoned, but back and forth can be a head scratcher.

Last, if you are going to take it serious? Dive in! You will have fun and you will learn a ton, I see potential in your groups! You may be 10 to 20 fps off from serious mojo? One thing I tell all that ask, do not take anything you read or hear for gospel! Do not listen to me or anyone else only, drive the road yourself and find out what it looks like👍🏻 and don’t take it too serious, serious people just bring drama and excuses 😂 good luck.
 
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Jayson said:
I see nothing horribly wrong with your tests? I see potential , there are 2 things I would avoid if you can? (Ok, three or 4)

1st, it is very difficult to get true barrel/tune/pellet potential outdoors! It will just frustrate you? Wind, temp even if fairly calm makes it pretty hard?
Once you know your guns potential ? Have at it, but benchrest is a constant road of seek perfection! Starting a pellet tune combo in a 7mph wind is tuff, I would only do this to just get a glimps of course info, but bench is a game of .010 “, not inches. At 100, you are looking for a .5’’ gun if you do your part, (5 or more shots and move around, lift your head)

2nd, as stated earlier , you really need to be sticking with one pellet at a time and put it through its paces, I like to go from 850-970, especially in 30 cal, do not mix pellets, they will drive you crazy! AEA pellets or JTS will kill my barrels for a time if I have been shooting JSB, until cleaned and reseasoned, but back and forth can be a head scratcher.

Last, if you are going to take it serious? Dive in! You will have fun and you will learn a ton, I see potential in your groups! You may be 10 to 20 fps off from serious mojo? One thing I tell all that ask, do not take anything you read or hear for gospel! Do not listen to me or anyone else only, drive the road yourself and find out what it looks like👍🏻 and don’t take it too serious, serious people just bring drama and excuses 😂 good luck.
Click to expand...
Gooo advise, Thanks
 
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Jayson said:
I see nothing horribly wrong with your tests? I see potential , there are 2 things I would avoid if you can? (Ok, three or 4)

1st, it is very difficult to get true barrel/tune/pellet potential outdoors! It will just frustrate you? Wind, temp even if fairly calm makes it pretty hard?
Once you know your guns potential ? Have at it, but benchrest is a constant road of seek perfection! Starting a pellet tune combo in a 7mph wind is tuff, I would only do this to just get a glimps of course info, but bench is a game of .010 “, not inches. At 100, you are looking for a .5’’ gun if you do your part, (5 or more shots and move around, lift your head)

2nd, as stated earlier , you really need to be sticking with one pellet at a time and put it through its paces, I like to go from 850-970, especially in 30 cal, do not mix pellets, they will drive you crazy! AEA pellets or JTS will kill my barrels for a time if I have been shooting JSB, until cleaned and reseasoned, but back and forth can be a head scratcher.

Last, if you are going to take it serious? Dive in! You will have fun and you will learn a ton, I see potential in your groups! You may be 10 to 20 fps off from serious mojo? One thing I tell all that ask, do not take anything you read or hear for gospel! Do not listen to me or anyone else only, drive the road yourself and find out what it looks like👍🏻 and don’t take it too serious, serious people just bring drama and excuses 😂 good luck.
Click to expand...
So true, test, test, test
 
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glr59 said:
So to give background I have been competing in WFTF and HFT for about 20yrs now. Have a lot of experience off my knee and bucket and sticks. The long range game intrigues me(100yards with pellets) Enter Long range FT. I shoot FT with a TM1000 .177cal so I purchased an HM1000X .22cal for 100yard FT. I quickly found out 30cal would be better so with the help of a very generous individual I converted to 30cal. Here is where I start scratching my head. I figured I'd shoot off of a bench to test for the best pellets and move to bucket and sticks for FT competition. I set the HM1000x on a front and rear rest and I say to myself this is going to be a piece of cake. I've never had a scope so steady in my life. Well I set my cards out at 100yards and I can't group for crap! It was suggested to go back to 50yards and start over. I've shot a couple times and my 50 yards groups still arent acceptable to me. I shot again today on bucket and sticks both the HM1000x and TM1000. Not much difference in groups compared to off the bench. I'm completely confused, other than I'm NOT a bench rest shooter at this point. This bench rest thing may be some black magic.
Any thoughts or ideas would be welcome. I wouldn't mind trying N50 or EBR to save my old back but I dont want to embarrass myself either.

By the way I think the Jts 45 gr shoot better than the AEA 45gr. The 45grain pellets are shooting at 880fps and the 50grAEA at 845fps
Now that I'm looking at these pictures before I post the Bucket and sticks groups are better. WTF

Jerry L

View attachment 590814

View attachment 590815

View attachment 590816
Click to expand...
Jerry,

Just saw this post.

First off, Ross is right in suggesting you contact Martin Rutherford. If you send him the action only ( no stock ) he will go through your action and barrel “soup to nuts” until he gets it shooting MOA or sub MOA groups at 50y. The firmer HS may really help as Ross indicated. Rather than you continue to get frustrated, let him work his magic. At the very least, he will ensure the gun or barrel is not the cause of unacceptable groups.

I looked closely at your 50y groups. Your JTS and JSB groups look pretty good. Measure them and I bet some are MOA and less.

My FX Boss .30 shot the JSB .44g consistently 1/2” average MOA at 50 yards at 890 FPS. Different gun and brand, but I sense those pellets need to fly a bit faster in the .30 RAW Poly barrel.

Also, if you’re shooting groups only for pellet and velocity testing purposes, try and pick a light wind day. Can’t tell you how many times I incorrectly misjudged my results when tuning & testing accuracy on windy days.
 
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You have a long road of just shooting and testing ahead. Its not a piece of cake or cheap to play in the benchrest pool. You have to prove everything at 50yds then move out and see what still applies.
Its frustrating too. If you like puzzles and are detailed then great, otherwise lower your expectations and just have fun.
If your trying to do well then you have opened the door to a rabbit hole so deep, you will never hit the bottom.
I decided to go the fun route and am using my Avgx .25 for all 50y and 100y benchrest events. It is what it is.
You can get your RAW shooting better but you have to figure out what THAT gun likes as far as pellet and speed combo.
We can all give you things to try but you have to keep TUNING until you find the right combo.
Then comes wind and rests. Each piece to the puzzle. Its endless really.
Good luck, its a long endless road.
The more you shoot, the more you learn.
 
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