Just learned about a person ruining 3 different expensive airguns by charging directly off a cheapo compressor because the pulse hammers the internals and regulators.
anyone else experience this?
anyone else experience this?
Compressor damaging internals
- Thread starter cavedweller
- Start date
To me not a clear question ? are you asking if the damage was to the guns ? or the compressors ?
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Can it prematurely wear static seals in regs?Absolutely, especially bottled guns. large 700 cc bottle guns even more so. now this is only if you’re filling below reg pressure. If you’re using a spring loaded foster fitting, it’s even possible to pick up a noise in the regulator as it’s filling because the two can be just out of sync.
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To three different pcp airguns
ill do my best to get more specific information
but this is important information for PCP owners who may be charging directly from a compressor rather than cascading from a air bottle
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I can see a possibility if it's the type of gun with reg on the bottle. Never thought about it before, but then, I've never filled a gun directly from compressor, only from tanks.
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I cannot see what difference filling from a compressor could be any different than filling from a tank except for possible moisture ? I do not have tanks only a Omega compressor . Does a tank fill a gun faster ? high pressure Zap your filled ?
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Define "expensive"
Define and Prove "ruined"
Prove "by air pump"
There are several things that are claimed but not explained. From what has been presented, I am not convinced there is a concern.
What would concern me is water filtration on the compressed air.
Maybe vibration could be induced by into a regulator by high pressure air pulses coming off the pump, however, I remain dubious of the air column transferring enough energy through the compressed media to damage a regulator. Those are made to handle high pressure differentials (it's in the job description!).
The story has gone from "cheapo" pumps to all pumps in general.
I do believe the sky has not fallen.
Define and Prove "ruined"
Prove "by air pump"
There are several things that are claimed but not explained. From what has been presented, I am not convinced there is a concern.
What would concern me is water filtration on the compressed air.
Maybe vibration could be induced by into a regulator by high pressure air pulses coming off the pump, however, I remain dubious of the air column transferring enough energy through the compressed media to damage a regulator. Those are made to handle high pressure differentials (it's in the job description!).
The story has gone from "cheapo" pumps to all pumps in general.
I do believe the sky has not fallen.
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Reason 173 to use a buddy bottle, which increases shooting time by allowing you to fill the bottle as you shoot if needed
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Keep in mind that "cheapo" portable compressor can mean anything from a Young Heng to an Omega Trail.
Furthermore, it does not take into consideration any kind of filter volume present. Example is the GX filter that will not pass air until it reaches about 2000 psi internal. That alone will buffer quite a bit of vibration.
A N D the provision mentioned above by AR, filling from below regulator set pressure.
Furthermore, it does not take into consideration any kind of filter volume present. Example is the GX filter that will not pass air until it reaches about 2000 psi internal. That alone will buffer quite a bit of vibration.
A N D the provision mentioned above by AR, filling from below regulator set pressure.
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+1. I agree with, "I remain dubious of the air column transferring enough energy through the compressed media to damage a regulator.".
I simply don't accept that damage to the gun, or regulator specifically, will occur due to compressor pulsations. The pressure pulsations wouldn't seem to be sufficiently excessive. OTOH, if such pulsations were an issue, why wouldn't pulsations due to firing, cause such failures.
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Keep on mind the majority of the type of folks that pick up the hobby. Not everybody is as enthusiastic about mechanical theory as some of us.
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I would be interested in hearing more, specifically, the brand and type of compressor used to fill the airguns. I'm betting it was a faster filling compressor like a YH or similar. I would think a slower filling air compressor like the GX Pumps CS series wouldn't be as bad. Plus, the use of any larger filter in-line would have some buffering effect on the output that would mitigate any hammering of the inner airgun components, so it would be interesting to know if any sort of filter was being used, and the type is there was one.
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I've filled all the pcp guns I've had from a GX CS2 (or for a while CS3), and no issues. I did use a empty filter housing to "buffer" the air pulsing when I first started, but now I don't use it anymore and haven't for quite a while. I can imagine it "could" damage orings, but if you fill with a reasonable amount of air in your gun, the difference between the pulse pressure and the static would be minimal in my mind and not enough to cause damage. Now, IF you were filling from empty every time, yes, that could be a problem. But even filling from empty only would be concern from 0 to say 100 bar or whatever, then once orings are forced into sealing, it's a non issue to me.
Also, these stories of "expensive airguns" are kind of dubious. I mean when I think of expensive, you're talking FX, Daystate, Skout, Brocock,,, etc, and I have some of those with no damage, and I don't think quality regs, like Huma, FX etc could be damaged in such a way. I would be interested in how this person correlated the damage to filling the gun??? I mean did he stop filling them from a pump and found that all problems were solved?
Also, these stories of "expensive airguns" are kind of dubious. I mean when I think of expensive, you're talking FX, Daystate, Skout, Brocock,,, etc, and I have some of those with no damage, and I don't think quality regs, like Huma, FX etc could be damaged in such a way. I would be interested in how this person correlated the damage to filling the gun??? I mean did he stop filling them from a pump and found that all problems were solved?
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If Rudy and I were talking to the same source on this topic, the theory is the compressor ‘pa-PAH pa-PAH’ ratcheting the pressure against the airgun internals is harsher than filling from a bottle.
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the only place I have seen pressure-pulse damage is on foster fitting on fill line fittings, here is a example on my SPA brass fill probe
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That is likely not pressure-pulse related damage - that is plastic deformation from the load applied through the retaining ball bearings in the foster fitting. It is common on brass fittings like that one, even if they are only used in tank fill situations.
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show me the deformation on a tank to gun filling,,, where it has never seen the pulse from a compressor
common you say,, then seeing it should be easy
common you say,, then seeing it should be easy
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I can see a logical reason filling from below the regulator setting would create cycling of the regulator but I've used my CS2 to refill one of my SPA guns (not an expensive brand) from zero multiple times and not seen any ill effect. I like doing this because filling an empty gun is a large drain on the bottle. I usually refill from my 45 minute SCBA tank but my CS2 still has about 5 hours on it - it gets used some. My CS2 goes through a GX filter.
I'm surprised someone would experience or claim damage of this type. Air is unlike water or oil. It expands and compresses readily with pressure difference evened out quickly. It seems difficult for a "pressure pulse" to travel far in compressed air before it is dissipated. The regulator action during filling from zero is just more cycles of what the regulator does all the time. It will only cycle for the brief period of a pressure spike above the regulator setting falling off to below the setting before another increase closes the regulator again. In a few cycles the pressure will stay above the regulator setting and there won't be more cycles.
I could be wrong and would love to know more but my initial reaction is that something else damaged the affected guns.
I'm surprised someone would experience or claim damage of this type. Air is unlike water or oil. It expands and compresses readily with pressure difference evened out quickly. It seems difficult for a "pressure pulse" to travel far in compressed air before it is dissipated. The regulator action during filling from zero is just more cycles of what the regulator does all the time. It will only cycle for the brief period of a pressure spike above the regulator setting falling off to below the setting before another increase closes the regulator again. In a few cycles the pressure will stay above the regulator setting and there won't be more cycles.
I could be wrong and would love to know more but my initial reaction is that something else damaged the affected guns.
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All of my fittings are steel, so I only really can show it on the one fitting that has seen almost every fill I've ever done - the ones on the guns don't show much of anything, at least that would show up in a picture.
This is from the output of my Guppy tank, which I use for almost all fills. Thus it has seen both the input and the output usage of almost all of my airflows - over probably 3500 SCF of net airflow. So yes, it has also been connected to the compressor for fills to 4500 psi, but that compressor is a Shoebox Max that fills very slowly - it has a tiny 1/8" diameter final stage piston, and it only raises the pressure in the 18 CF capacity Guppy tank about 32 psi per minute.
Remember that those tiny ball contact points (between 4 and 6 of them, depending on Foster fitting; I use ones with 6 balls) are where all of the loading occurs from the fill pressure - 4500 psi line pressure restrained by at most 1-2 square mm of contact area. This is why I only use steel fittings and not brass . . . .
Here is what it looks like - less dramatic as it is steel and not brass, but the ball dents are still there. I'm sure you will discount it because it did have air flow into it from a compressor, but I am right on this one. People have had those brass fill fittings fail on them - I'd suggest either sourcing one in steel, or getting new ones when your brass ones start to show much more wear.
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