Understanding the hammerless system

[Pale_Rider]

HUBEN

Uses two valves. One to open air flow, one to close it. When the gun is first pressurized air flows through the closing valve then into the opening valve chamber. This pressure allows the opening valve to seal itself. The opening valve consists of two parts. When pressurized they move in opposite directions to seal the opening chamber. 

The opening valve is held forward by a sear preventing airflow. When the sear releases the opening valve it moves back letting air flow through to push the pellet. After the air pressure drops in the opening valve chamber the closing valve stops air flow by overcoming the lower pressure with spring tension. When the closing valve seals, it doesn’t really seal. It just stops the flow of air enough for the spring tension to overcome air pressure. A tiny channel in the closing valve’s seal allows air to flow through and pressurize the opening valve. It is now ready for the next shot.



The opening valve is not adjustable. It only responds to adjustments made by the closing valve or the reg pressure. The closing valve is adjustable via the wheel on the bottom of the butt stock. Turning the wheel CCW will weaken spring tension allowing more air to flow through before the valve is closed. Turning CW will do the opposite. 



https://youtu.be/v8qJ5-p_YkM

 

[Loren]

That is very clever engineering genius!!! Thanks for sharing!!

 

[cootertwo]

It is still way above my head. But I do like my Huben, and SK19 too. However, I have had a couple of serious miss-haps with my Huben. "IF" you get carried away, and not pay attention to your pressure, and shoot, say below 1500psi, you can get a pellet jammed in the barrel, magazine locks up, and rifle dumps remaining air. It can be a pain, trying to clear the barrel, even by using a rod, to push the pellet/slug back towards the magazine, as the magazine might be half way rotated to the next hole, and not enough room to shove the stuck pellet back into the magazine. And "TWICE" when I tried to air up the rifle, at this stage, it fired the stuck pellet into the ceiling. Luckily, I wasn't trying to look at the gauge! Also, both of these times, once the stuck pellet fired, the rifle went back to operating normally. I'm really surprised I haven't heard of any accidents with the Huben. Not knocking the rifle at all, but it does require serious attention to safety.️

 

[Enkey]

Hi

Thanks for the warning!!! 

I had heard from other brands that when you shoot at low pressure the valve stays open and the magazine rotates

I have never fired with low pressure, I will bear that in mind, being semi-automatic without a hammer I would never put my face in front of the barrel with pellets in the magazine

Regards 

Enkey 

 

[randy_68]

Very good explanation of the system. The Hubens can be very picky on settings and air pressure as Cooter stated. If you get too low on air it stops working correctly and causes problems as he described. I try to never shoot below 150 bar and my regs are usually set at 120 to 140 depending on pellet and what the gun likes. Once set correctly they are great guns and have pretty good triggers and accuracy.

I have found the close valve of the 2016 guns (as in the diagram above) functions better than the plastic valve of the newer 2018's . 

 

[Pale_Rider]

Loren

That is very clever engineering genius!!! Thanks for sharing!!

Clever engineering indeed! 

It is still way above my head. But I do like my Huben, and SK19 too. However, I have had a couple of serious miss-haps with my Huben. "IF" you get carried away, and not pay attention to your pressure, and shoot, say below 1500psi, you can get a pellet jammed in the barrel, magazine locks up, and rifle dumps remaining air. It can be a pain, trying to clear the barrel, even by using a rod, to push the pellet/slug back towards the magazine, as the magazine might be half way rotated to the next hole, and not enough room to shove the stuck pellet back into the magazine. And "TWICE" when I tried to air up the rifle, at this stage, it fired the stuck pellet into the ceiling. Luckily, I wasn't trying to look at the gauge! Also, both of these times, once the stuck pellet fired, the rifle went back to operating normally. I'm really surprised I haven't heard of any accidents with the Huben. Not knocking the rifle at all, but it does require serious attention to safety.

That is the downside, having to keep track of the air. I make it easy by reminding myself to refill after the 4th mag. 
The huben requires the most attention to safety than any other gun being that when it’s loaded there is always a pellet ready to fire. That being said, I have never fired a pellet by accident 

Hi

I would never put my face in front of the barrel with pellets in the magazine

Regards 

Enkey

Kinda makes me wonder why manufacturers still put gauges where you have to turn the muzzle of the gun towards your head lol

Very good explanation of the system. The Hubens can be very picky on settings and air pressure as Cooter stated. If you get too low on air it stops working correctly and causes problems as he described. I try to never shoot below 150 bar and my regs are usually set at 120 to 140 depending on pellet and what the gun likes. Once set correctly they are great guns and have pretty good triggers and accuracy.

I have found the close valve of the 2016 guns (as in the diagram above) functions better than the plastic valve of the newer 2018's .

It’s dumping all the air because the low air pressure can’t overcome the closing valve spring. I have a theory that if a weaker closing valve spring is used it will allow it to run at lower pressure.

I currently have mine set at 110 bar and routinely shoot it down to 110 bar with no issues. 


Thats interesting about the 2016 close valves compared to the 2018. What effect does the plastic valve have vs the metal?

 

[mazinga]

I have recently experienced an accidental misfire. New Leshiy 2 . Pressure was within specs (280 the time). After firing 3 rounds a 4th discharged without touching the trigger . 

 

[wimpanzee]

It is still way above my head. But I do like my Huben, and SK19 too. However, I have had a couple of serious miss-haps with my Huben. "IF" you get carried away, and not pay attention to your pressure, and shoot, say below 1500psi, you can get a pellet jammed in the barrel, magazine locks up, and rifle dumps remaining air. It can be a pain, trying to clear the barrel, even by using a rod, to push the pellet/slug back towards the magazine, as the magazine might be half way rotated to the next hole, and not enough room to shove the stuck pellet back into the magazine. And "TWICE" when I tried to air up the rifle, at this stage, it fired the stuck pellet into the ceiling. Luckily, I wasn't trying to look at the gauge! Also, both of these times, once the stuck pellet fired, the rifle went back to operating normally. I'm really surprised I haven't heard of any accidents with the Huben. Not knocking the rifle at all, but it does require serious attention to safety.

I recently had a similar issue. A pellet slipped too far forward, and would not fire, and blocked the magazine. I dumped the air trying to shoot it out (only a couple shots, and the valve seemed stuck open.

Kelly @ KrazKool had given me a 5mm carbon fiber rod to tap out a slug that had gotten stuck before.

HOWEVER - I knew that the valve was air controlled, and that when refilling, it may trigger the action to release. So I put my gun on a table outside, pointing to a safe place. Sure enough, when that tube hit 1600psi, it discharged. Really glad I had the forethought to be extra careful there.

Ever since then, it has shot great! Not a gun that is easy to test ammo with. I am sticking with JSB redesigned monsters from now on.

 

[sticman77]

has anybody had a misfire while the huben was in safety?



while i agree with the safety concerns, seems it should be just as safe as a chambered sidearm with safety on (that many carry daily)?



i never trusted the huben safety as much though.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Had my huben almost 3 years now without any misfires. If for whatever reason someone had to have it loaded(perhaps it’s your truck gun) then I would leave one chamber empty. Will take a second longer to rotate the mag onto a loaded chamber but the extra safety is worth it

 

[Airgunmann]

Doesn't sound to safe to me having to worry about a stuck pellet come flying out when airing up the tank and if the air gauge is on the end it's just a matter of time before a accident happens . If your aware of the fact that this is going to happen that's different but being a newbie to huben I wouldn't have known until I read this thread and you guys told me about it and the fact the gauge is on the muzzle end not trying to knock the gun it's cool design and everything just sounds unsafe 

has anybody had a misfire while the huben was in safety?



while i agree with the safety concerns, seems it should be just as safe as a chambered sidearm with safety on (that many carry daily)?



i never trusted the huben safety as much though.

Fact is I would feel safer with a loaded side arm even a Glock without external safety than I would trust the air actuated system. I could see someone putting on the safety and refilling the gun with no idea that was going to happen while looking at the gauge just saying unless the gun has warnings all over the place that this could happen when jammed 

 

[Airgunmann]

Had my huben almost 3 years now without any misfires. If for whatever reason someone had to have it loaded(perhaps it’s your truck gun) then I would leave one chamber empty. Will take a second longer to rotate the mag onto a loaded chamber but the extra safety is worth it

I agree with you on that

 

[Kenjeepman]

Clever engineering indeed!





That is the downside, having to keep track of the air. I make it easy by reminding myself to refill after the 4th mag.
The huben requires the most attention to safety than any other gun being that when it’s loaded there is always a pellet ready to fire. That being said, I have never fired a pellet by accident





Kinda makes me wonder why manufacturers still put gauges where you have to turn the muzzle of the gun towards your head lol



It’s dumping all the air because the low air pressure can’t overcome the closing valve spring. I have a theory that if a weaker closing valve spring is used it will allow it to run at lower pressure.

I currently have mine set at 110 bar and routinely shoot it down to 110 bar with no issues.


Thats interesting about the 2016 close valves compared to the 2018. What effect does the plastic valve have vs the metal?

Theres 2 springs, what spring is responsible for closing the valve ?
I put the new v3+ valve, spring, etc in my GK1, gregor said the longer and softer spring should allow the gun to shoot down lower.
I dont see how the striker spring has anything to do with that? In my pee brain, i was thinking that a softer closing valve spring would do that?

 

[sb327]

The striker spring is the spring for the opening valve. A strong spring requires more pressure to open. Although it is called a striker, it isn’t in the traditional sense.

The closing valve takes another couple of springs (above for positioning the closing valve open once the opening valve area has reset/pressurized…..below to control the closing action upon pressure drop/firing).

Dave

 

[bubbahotep]

I always figured these worked like an adjustable toilet flapper.

 

[Kenjeepman]

The striker spring is the spring for the opening valve. A strong spring requires more pressure to open. Although it is called a striker, it isn’t in the traditional sense.

The closing valve takes another couple of springs (above for positioning the closing valve open once the opening valve area has reset/pressurized…..below to control the closing action upon pressure drop/firing).

Dave

almost got it .. whoever designed this
Gun is Einstein level genius lol
I have 2 GK1’s, a 22 and 25, both v3’s but the 22 now has the v3+ firing valve, striker and spring.
22 is currently run around 30 fpe, 25 is around 40 fpe.
22 from new always had a larger fps spread and would really start to open up (spike) at 20 mpa and dump air at 17-18 mpa. Expected if i had the power at max but i dont.
With the v3+ upper valve, striker,spring, etc its better but still starts opening up at that 20 mpa mark.
With my 25 i can shoot it down much lower, i don’t typically.. i have shot it down to 10 mpa without it dumping.


Got this picture from Kelly.

 

[Kenjeepman]

almost got it .. whoever designed this
Gun is Einstein level genius lol
I have 2 GK1’s, a 22 and 25, both v3’s but the 22 now has the v3+ firing valve, striker and spring.
22 is currently run around 30 fpe, 25 is around 40 fpe.
22 from new always had a larger fps spread and would really start to open up (spike) at 20 mpa and dump air at 17-18 mpa. Expected if i had the power at max but i dont.
With the v3+ upper valve, striker,spring, etc its better but still starts opening up at that 20 mpa mark.
With my 25 i can shoot it down much lower, i don’t typically.. i have shot it down to 10 mpa without it dumping.


Got this picture from Kelly.

Not sure why the pic didnt post

 

[Kenjeepman]

almost got it .. whoever designed this
Gun is Einstein level genius lol
I have 2 GK1’s, a 22 and 25, both v3’s but the 22 now has the v3+ firing valve, striker and spring.
22 is currently run around 30 fpe, 25 is around 40 fpe.
22 from new always had a larger fps spread and would really start to open up (spike) at 20 mpa and dump air at 17-18 mpa. Expected if i had the power at max but i dont.
With the v3+ upper valve, striker,spring, etc its better but still starts opening up at that 20 mpa mark.
With my 25 i can shoot it down much lower, i don’t typically.. i have shot it down to 10 mpa without it dumping.


Got this picture from Kelly.

This is with 22 gr pellets. Bumped up to 35 fpe .. 5k fill.
1 mag with only a 11 FPS spread.
Shot 20 was down around 23 mpa. As you can see by shot 5 its already at 880 fps and the shots are audibly louder (out of tune so to speak)
Ive seen shot strings at 35-40 fpe through 2-3 mags and with a surprising good spread.