Dreaming of this scope

[cavedweller]

I want a scope like the
Sightron S3 10-50x60
but
I want it in Mrad
with the Nightforce ATACR .1 mil turrets
and the Nightforce
Mil-XT reticle that is useable at 16x

like I said dreaming

what scope features would you combine?
as in the
best of the best from any and all brands

glass
turrets
ranging
clarity
temperature stability
great warranty
and parallax focus to 9 yards

dreaming

 

[jps2486]

Reticle characteristics trump most of the other things you mentioned. The right thickness, not too busy and large enough to facilitate holdover. Then accurate ranging and ability to focus down to 10 yards. Do I sound like an HFT shooter? All the others will be part of most decent mid to upper priced scopes.

 

[Deleted member 54174]

I'm pretty darn happy with my March FX 5-42 X 56. If I could add a feature, it would be a left side windage turret like what Kahles offers.

 

[qball]

Just curious what score are you trying to beat? 90% at over 90% of the time? I’m very lucky to be shooting with multiple team USA members including winners of couple of classes, they usually just talk about find one scope that ranges well and more importantly consistently and practice.


Now, I am NOT against scope fetish/fantasies at all, certainly am guilty of it too for a while. But after shooting my usual 80% with a cheap $400 scope on top of a $450 used gun and no range card I’m starting to think the dope behind the trigger may be the problem all along.

 

[cavedweller]

Just curious what score are you trying to beat? 90% at over 90% of the time? I’m very lucky to be shooting with multiple team USA members including winners of couple of classes, they usually just talk about find one scope that ranges well and more importantly consistently and practice.


Now, I am NOT against scope fetish/fantasies at all. Certainly am guilty of it too for a while, but after shooting 80% with a cheap $400 scope on top of a $450 used gun and no range card I’m starting to think the dope behind the trigger may be the problem all along.

It’s more like - I’ve owned the best and the most practical and each has some really great features… things I like… but I want all those things I like in ONE scope

 

[cavedweller]

I'm pretty darn happy with my March FX 5-42 X 56. If I could add a feature, it would be a left side windage turret like what Kahles offers.

I had this basic March but at 16x the reticle was very very fine and difficult to use for a holdover but if I was able to click in Hft I would still own it! But-if you need warranty services for your march, you will be sending it back to Japan.

 

[cavedweller]

Reticle characteristics trump most of the other things you mentioned. The right thickness, not too busy and large enough to facilitate holdover. Then accurate ranging and ability to focus down to 10 yards. Do I sound like an HFT shooter? All the others will be part of most decent mid to upper priced scopes.

I’m in agreement! It’s taken me 3 years of stubbornness and self indulgent silliness to figure out what I want in a Airgun scope for HFT

 

[Iowa Airgunner]

Figuring out what has been my problem also.
The alphabet soup was very challenging. So many different models of the same scope. I appreciate your help with figuring that out.
Bigger is not better all the time. And going from open class with 50x and changing to 16 x has its challenges.

I definitely enjoy hunter class. Using holdover vs turning the turrets is better when you have a cheap scope.

 

[jps2486]

I’m in agreement! It’s taken me 3 years of stubbornness and self indulgent silliness to figure out what I want in a Airgun scope for HFT

When I shot HFT, I used a
Hawke Sidewinder 6-24 with the 20X 1/2 Mildot reticle. It had just enough graduations for accurate holdover for me, at least. It was mounted on a RAW HM1000 that Martin built for me.

 

[drsquall]

I don't shoot FT anymore and when I did it was with a tx200 and an athlon argos. Hunter class 16 limit really don't allow you to really use one of these high dollar scopes to their full potential. Sure the glass may be clear and reticle great but ranging at 16 makes them all equal no matter what money you throw at it. I'm not dropping 1500 plus to not use the strong points of that scope, the high magnification and the repeatability of the turrets. Just my opinion. I've never used anything more than a sightron FT but hated the reticle for holdover. I do own Nightforce atacr, vortex gen 3 razor, ZC so I know quality scopes but this are not for this FT. Better choices at lower prices more suited for hunter class. Shoot what you like and have confidence in and enjoy.

 

[jps2486]

I don't shoot FT anymore and when I did it was with a tx200 and an athlon argos. Hunter class 16 limit really don't allow you to really use one of these high dollar scopes to their full potential. Sure the glass may be clear and reticle great but ranging at 16 makes them all equal no matter what money you throw at it. I'm not dropping 1500 plus to not use the strong points of that scope, the high magnification and the repeatability of the turrets. Just my opinion. I've never used anything more than a sightron FT but hated the reticle for holdover. I do own Nightforce atacr, vortex gen 3 razor, ZC so I know quality scopes but this are not for this FT. Better choices at lower prices more suited for hunter class. Shoot what you like and have confidence in and enjoy.

Agreed. You need a scope that gets the job done, and it doesn’t have to cost an arm and a leg. While I have enough disposable income, I can’t justify scopes costing $2-4000. I’ve peered through many of my fellow competitor’s scopes and didn’t like them because of their funky reticle or tight eye boxes. Look at what the top shooters use in the match reports. Mostly Sightron S3s which can be had for around $1000 if you are patient and are a good shopper. If you are a LEO or a vet with a DD-214, the manufacturers offer substantial discounts.

 

[drsquall]

I run Sightrons on my f class and BR 22lrs and Nightforce comepeitition on f open centerfire. Love the S3s with the fine dot and fine crosshair for f class. Yeah most scopes at that higher mag get tighter eye box. I usually run mine at 50 lol at 100yds. I like to see my hits and read the mirage off the target stand. I honestly don't think spending above 2,000 gets you a that much of an improvement. Unfortunately I found out the hard way. Lol and that's regardless of what shooting sport. 99% of shooters can't out shoot the difference of a 1.000 scope verse a 2,000. Now in FT the ranging and how it focuses in is a personal thing and something that someone needs to make repeatable. Eyes are different and in the FT crowd more are older and are trying to find the next level up that helps with that.

 

[steve123]

I would like the same as you Rudy but I wouldn't pay the money for such a scope anymore for FT. I think the closest I had was a March 5-42 1st Gen which had a thick enough reticle to use at 16x/FMLTR1. It had super ranging ability because of the finicky parallax focus, in other words it had to be set just right to get it perfectly clear. However by 37x the IQ started to suffer greatly and at 42x the IQ was dim and a little blurry. At 16x the IQ was really nice though.
The G2's are supposed to be better at higher magnification.

Next is my S&B PM2 5-25. It ranges decently and the H59 reticle is .05 mil thick.

Have to really strain a nat to get better IQ at 16x than these.

 

[qball]

I’m in agreement! It’s taken me 3 years of stubbornness and self indulgent silliness to figure out what I want in a Airgun scope for HFT

That makes sense, my only problem with finding a perfect scope is I won’t have anything to complain about. More importantly I won’t have that as an excuse, no excuses is a rather uncomfortable situation IMHO.

That being said! I think you mentioned you are in HFT class and interestingly it makes scope choices rather difficult due to the constraints of 14x magnification especially when it comes to ranging to put it mildly as a self proclaimed scope snob. Your list of wishes aligns with my selection criteria very closely.

Here is my list for HFT scope selection:
1. FFP, since I use ballistic calculator having FFP saves a lot of confusion and headache.
2. 16x-20x MAX. Due to FFP changes the reticle size 16-20x FFP at 14x gives most usable reticle size. Also scopes range better at or near the max magnification
3. Biggest objective lens possible, most at 40-50 but 56mm would be better. Bigger the objective lens the narrower the depth of field and better at ranging. This aligns with your S3 base as it has unusually large objective lens for the main tube size and magnification but glass is on par with coke bottle. Lower magnification(below 20x) almost never comes with 56mm objective lens, which is why I think getting the “perfect” HFT scope to my liking is almost impossible or at least VERY expensive.

For me in HFT the rest of your list like turrets are personal preference as you don’t touch them. In the lower price point I found the old element helix 6-24 does an admirable job especially at the price point. On the high end the S6 might work but MOA only right now. The new element titan 3-18 might work out well too, but haven’t had the chance to try one but I’m tempted to for other reasons.

Lastly, the problem with high end scopes is they are not made for this quirky requirement of HFT use case and have way too much magnifications. Even looking at March’s and other tier 1 scopes at north of $4000 price point, I still can’t pick one to use for HFT. Which makes a perfectly awesome excuse for me and my wallet, what did they say about the journey vs the destination again?

 

[JW.]

The first FT match I ever shot was with a USFT and a March 80x. It took darn near five minutes to find a 10yard target on 80x and when I finally found it I could not find the KZ. Well at 80x the 1/2" KZ filled the entire view!! LOL

I was so set on not turning down the scope it was hilarious, I probably missed the shot I was laughing so hard.

 

[qball]

The first FT match I ever shot was with a USFT and a March 80x. It took darn near five minutes to find a 10yard target on 80x and when I finally found it I could not find the KZ. Well at 80x the 1/2" KZ filled the entire view!! LOL

I was so set on not turning down the scope it was hilarious, I probably missed the shot I was laughing so hard.

Oh snap! I get lost with 40x, can’t imagine 80x!!!

 

[cavedweller]

That makes sense, my only problem with finding a perfect scope is I won’t have anything to complain about. More importantly I won’t have that as an excuse, no excuses is a rather uncomfortable situation IMHO.

That being said! I think you mentioned you are in HFT class and interestingly it makes scope choices rather difficult due to the constraints of 14x magnification especially when it comes to ranging to put it mildly as a self proclaimed scope snob. Your list of wishes aligns with my selection criteria very closely.

Here is my list for HFT scope selection:
1. FFP, since I use ballistic calculator having FFP saves a lot of confusion and headache.
2. 16x-20x MAX. Due to FFP changes the reticle size 16-20x FFP at 14x gives most usable reticle size. Also scopes range better at or near the max magnification
3. Biggest objective lens possible, most at 40-50 but 56mm would be better. Bigger the objective lens the narrower the depth of field and better at ranging. This aligns with your S3 base as it has unusually large objective lens for the main tube size and magnification but glass is on par with coke bottle. Lower magnification(below 20x) almost never comes with 56mm objective lens, which is why I think getting the “perfect” HFT scope to my liking is almost impossible or at least VERY expensive.

For me in HFT the rest of your list like turrets are personal preference as you don’t touch them. In the lower price point I found the old element helix 6-24 does an admirable job especially at the price point. On the high end the S6 might work but MOA only right now. The new element titan 3-18 might work out well too, but haven’t had the chance to try one but I’m tempted to for other reasons.

Lastly, the problem with high end scopes is they are not made for this quirky requirement of HFT use case and have way too much magnifications. Even looking at March’s and other tier 1 scopes at north of $4000 price point, I still can’t pick one to use for HFT. Which makes a perfectly awesome excuse for me and my wallet, what did they say about the journey vs the destination again?

@steve123 - S&B states 10 meter parallax focus… at 16x will it focus at 10 yards?
Nightforce is similar but it is not perfect at 10 yards

 

[steve123]

@steve123 - S&B states 10 meter parallax focus… at 16x will it focus at 10 yards?
Nightforce is similar but it is not perfect at 10 yards

It's just slightly unfocused at 10y on 25x so I'm guessing it'll be okay at 16x.

I can't remember if I've used it for 16x Hunter??

At 25x I found 10m focus at least as good for ranging distance as 10y focus because if it was slightly unfocused I knew it was 10.5y and a tad more than that it was 10y.

I used to use this S$B for Hunter when the max mag was 12x but I'd partially rely on the H59 reticle for bracketing distance.

In Open, old 12x Hunter, and unlimited, I won matches with this scope so it's not a bad choice.
Back then it had better IQ than any NF did/14 years ago, and also a friend's ATACR 7-35/4 years ago, which had the same IQ as my Cronus G2 4.5-29 in a sidebyside.