Hold-Over or Dial? …Scope Turret Labels - DYI

[rcs9250]

I just got a .30 Paradigm for pesting. Bought an Element Helix for it. All my pesting guns before this one are holdover. Last week I made a dope card and laminated it for the Paradigm from 10yds-50yds in 5 yard increments using turrets.
Rather than clicks I did it in minutes since counting clicks, in my opinion sucks. I have a very short attention span so I hope I remember to dial since I was using holdovers for years.

 

[Vana2]

I have found that fiddling with turret adjustments while hunting does not work out very well. Many times I have had just seconds to get on a target and pull the trigger. Also when hunting certain critters like coyotes you don't want to be moving around adjusting stuff. A Christmas tree reticle on the scope solves the problem for me since I have 40 moa right on the reticle, I can compensate accurately for distances out to a couple hundred yards in 25 yard increments without making a turret adjustment. For punching paper, turret fiddling may work fine.

Hear you and agree, often there's no time to be fiddling.

There are other situations where there's lots of time to range the shot and adjust the turret.

The local lads have my permission to hunt squirrels in my oak bush. As a result the surviving squirrels are real spooky and you can't get within 40 yards of them. I've been shooting them at 50 to 70 yards... they have no idea that I'm there and I have lots of time to dial in the range.

 

[Ema]

Another method is to set yourself up to do either hold over or dial the turret.

Just need an intuitive reticle. MIL works best for my brain. By doing it this way you can even shoot out past the maximum vertical travel in your turrets. Say you need 16mil of holdover for a shot but scope only goes to 8mil in the turret. Dial the 8, then holdover another 8.

I have a little laminated dope sheet for each gun/caliber/scope. Sometimes stickered to the gun, sometimes tucked into the gap between action and stock. But on the card are just two columns/projectile. Left column is distance, right column is clicks. With a nice clean mil reticle/mil turret the click value is pretty easy to turn into a holdover if the quarry seems like it might bolt before the clicks can be made.

Hi Frank, can I ask you something about that: on SFP scope holdover change with the changing of the magnification but if I use turret stickers and adjust the POI with turret it dosn't matter on what magnification I'm it always work correct right ? I'm always talcking about SFP scope

 

[Franklink]

Hi Frank, can I ask you something about that: on SFP scope holdover change with the changing of the magnification but if I use turret stickers and adjust the POI with turret it dosn't matter on what magnification I'm it always work correct right ? I'm always talcking about SFP scope

With a second focal plane scope, as long as you're dialing the turret the magnification doesn't matter. With a SFP scope, holdover WILL change with scope power though.

With a first focal plane scope, holdover AND dialing the turret agree, and that's at any magnification the scope is capable of being turned to.

 

[cavedweller]

With a second focal plane scope, as long as you're dialing the turret the magnification doesn't matter. With a SFP scope, holdover WILL change with scope power though.

With a first focal plane scope, holdover AND dialing the turret agree, and that's at any magnification the scope is cable of being turned to.

Wowza.... i learn something new everyday here! Thanks @Franklink Until just now, i thought both clicks and holdovers were affected by magnification in a SFP.
This explains why i was having trouble with my holdovers the other day but when i shifted to clicking i hit the targets... wasn't until many targets into the day i realized my magnification level was on 20 vice 16; of course my holdover dope was created on 16X. Thanks again....

 

[Ema]

This is what i was thinking from a lot of time haha and it's pretty interesting, thank you for the confirmation tho !

 

[Franklink]

Wowza.... i learn something new everyday here! Thanks @Franklink Until just now, i thought both clicks and holdovers were affected by magnification in a SFP.
This explains why i was having trouble with my holdovers the other day but when i shifted to clicking i hit the targets... wasn't until many targets into the day i realized my magnification level was on 20 vice 16; of course my holdover dope was created on 16X. Thanks again....

One of the reasons I really like FFP.

Last year at the AZ State FT match I asked in the pre meeting for clarification on turning down the scope power for the offhand lane for Hunter class. Match director announced that it was fine to turn down the magnification for that lane. Now, Hunter being hold-over only, this would NOT work well for a guy using a SFP scope, but works great for FFP.

 

[Chasdog]

Yea I’m a fan of ffp scopes ever since I got into the long range rifle shooting..Just makes sense and a whole lot less confusion in that possibility of a couple seconds for a shot on your quarry. You just have to deal with the shrinking reticle when at low power. Holdover works for me on game and even targets at long range.
I do seem to do more dialing on my pcps than I ever did on my powder burners.

 

[Squack]

To answer this correctly, the question must be asked, "Is it repeatable?"
If you spend enough time with a scope and learn how it tracks then you will understand its limitations regardless of which system is used.
My preference is holdover because turrets do wear with use.

 

[OldVet]

I have no idea what any of this means need to do my homework I guess.
When I use a mill dot the very top dot on my scopes vertical line is zero not the center cross dot. That way each dot down is a little further out allowing the use of the full range of the dots not just 1/2. I will learn about this turret stuff the best I can tho.

 

[Mycapt65]

Keep in mind most scopes under $1000 don't track well enough to dial up and down the amount airgun trajectories require at long distances. Or at least they won't do it for long. You're better off using the reticle as much as you can and watching your cant with less expensive scopes. If you want to dial like a sniper you have to be willing spend $1K or at least $500 if you buy used or can catch a good sale on a discontinued model.

In any event, droop mounts will help increase the the amount of usable elevation in your scope.

 

[Sawney Bean]

Neither one is clearly superior from my POV. You can't actually use the same holdover at any magnification with a FFP, because for the bottom third of the magnification range the dots are not clearly distinguishable. At low power they essentially become duplex reticles and even above that, they're not ideal, because the reticle becomes difficult to use when it's too small. On a SFP, you can use holdover at low power, but it takes some simple math to do so. That's not really a big issue, but with SFP you are effectively limited to specific magnifications if you want to use holdover and keep the math easy. You're not going to be able to back off from 24x down to 20x without reducing your holdover by 17%. So long as you cut your magnification in 1/2 or 1/4 it's very easy to calculate your holdover, but as soon as you choose anything else it becomes a mess.

 

[Trucker3573]

I def prefer to dial. I don’t know if it’s just a mental thing but I don’t shoot as well holding over.

 

[JungleShooter]

Most scopes under $1000 don't track well enough. Or at least they won't do it for long. You're better off using the reticle as much as you can and watching your cant with less expensive scopes. If you want to dial like a sniper you have to be willing spend $1K or at least $500 if you buy used or can catch a good sale on a discontinued model.

I think the $1000 requirement to get a scope that tracks well applies to scopes from a decade or two ago.
➧ We have entered a Golden Age of Scopes (same can be said for airguns, just look at the development in the last 10 years ).

Even $500 MRSP might not be necessary to get turrets that are consistent, over time.
Athlon, Arken, Vector and others turn out really good stuff.

And there are always lemons in every batch of product, no matter what. — So, if you had a bad experience with sub-$500 scopes, I'm sorry!

Matthias

 

[student]

that's awesome, thanks for sharing.

wish i had your talent. I used to just mark areas with a semi-permanent marker in red and always ended up redoing it after each match.

i would perhaps suggest something a little quicker and easier to read.....for my eyes, less busy is quicker and easier to acquire especially if time is critical. that was true for me in local competitions.

a bold color to differentiate from the standard turret markings would d also help.

(i copied this photo from the internet).

dialing had become so comfortable for me over the years....its kind of like the buttons on the old SLR cameras that i used to carry all the time...i got so used to where they were located it was so easy and quick to manipulate

 

[Mycapt65]

I think the $1000 requirement to get a scope that tracks well applies to scopes from a decade or two ago.
➧ We have entered a Golden Age of Scopes (same can be said for airguns, just look at the development in the last 10 years ).

Even $500 MRSP might not be necessary to get turrets that are consistent, over time.
Athlon, Arken, Vector and others turn out really good stuff.

And there are always lemons in every batch of product, no matter what. — So, if you had a bad experience with sub-$500 scopes, I'm sorry!

Matthias

I agree to a degree. Scopes are definitely better built than not long ago. Do a box test with a turn and a half travel on each knob and see how a $500 scope fairs. It may pass initially but if you do a lot of dialing they wear quickly and lose their tracking accuracy. I had the option until not long ago to shoot out to 625 yards daily off my back deck. My 22lr requied nearly 15' of dialing or holdover at 320 yards and my actual experience shows that inexpensive scopes only track well for short dialing and or a short time. Its hard to put a specific price break on scopes because some companies are over priced and under deliver. Others are a good value in some areas but compromise other areas. IMO to get a good long range scope that has good mechanisms and optics $500 is bare minimum.

As far as as airguns and distances go. Airguns aren't typically shooting distances that require much more than mediocre glass. Their slow velocities however require a lot of hold over or dialing. A well built scope with ok glass like mid tier Athlons are fine for airguns. Mind you I'm not saying airgunners don't deserve top tier glass. I'm saying it's not as necessary under 200 yards as it is at 500 plus.