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Field Target is an arms race.

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JW. said:
What bling? I brought up statistics and mentioned two people who use them in the shooting industry (there are many, many more), the statistics apply regardless of who is doing the calculations. Everyone has an agenda, my comment was about statistics in response to a comment about shooting enough groups, not specifically Hornady or Litz.

You have made it specific to those people and their agendas...why, what is your agenda? And why do you think your agenda is valid if theirs is not? Sounds like YOU have a lot to lose here with all this bluster about agendas... My response was about statistics and now your spouting off about me hiding my head in the sand...? This is an airgun forum dude, time and place. Stop projecting.

Statistics are statistics, if its shooting or fabricated precision items, volleyball or what-have-you. Litz and Hornady are not making up what counts as a statistically significant number for a proper sample size (to sell bullets or books as you claim), statistics/math created that number (and likely created it before Litz was even born).

Do you have issues with statistics or Hornady/Litz? It sounds a lot like the later and not at all part of the discussion...the discussion about what Mike had said about shooting the proper number of targets to understand how well you and the rifle are performing.

Statistics.
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Extended strings of fire are a test of the shooter not the rifle. Ok I do have bias based on many years in competitive shooting. That are shooters and there are staticisns. Very seldom do they cross. B L is an exception but also a bullet guy, so there is always that. But trying do say Long strings of shots are the only thing that tells you the rifle is competitive/ accurate is BS. Plus pushing the idea its all about the rifle in a competitive environment is really misleading. But it's what numbers guys do, being competitive, not so often. Have a nice summer and enjoy the heat, snow is coming.
 
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JEFFPPC said:
Extended strings of fire are a test of the shooter not the rifle. Ok I do have bias based on many years in competitive shooting. That are shooters and there are staticisns. Very seldom do they cross. B L is an exception but also a bullet guy, so there is always that. But trying do say Long strings of shots are the only thing that tells you the rifle is competitive/ accurate is BS. Plus pushing the idea its all about the rifle in a competitive environment is really misleading. But it's what numbers guys do, being competitive, not so often. Have a nice summer and enjoy the heat, snow is coming.
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I guess it comes down to the want to get better once you are already competitive. I use the math And other things) to do just this and it works. My FT performances over the last 13 years prove this out, how have you done in FT, any Nationals Championships, Grand Prix Championships??

You state:
But trying do say Long strings of shots are the only thing that tells you the rifle is competitive/ accurate is BS.
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I wrote this:
I think to get a statistically significant group you need to shoot a minimum of 32 shots, something like that. I tend to shoot a lot of pellets as my testing 'groups', I figure I need around 60 shots without a 'flyer', because there are no real fliers, just bad pellets, barrels and shooters and a match is around 60 shots...
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"I think..." that's about as far from "only" as you can get...

I didn't say anything definitively about shooting larger rather than smaller strings of shots, nor did I say it was the "only" thing (your agenda is twisting my words around).

If your tuned rifle is shooting 3" benched indoor groups at 55 yards string after string (and you know you can shoot better than that) there isn't anything you as a shooter can do to make it better (there are people who think they can but they are idiots). If you used that same rifle and shot a three shot group that measured 3/4" it could look like it is a lot more accurate than it really is and that three shot group is misleading you 100%.

If i'm shooting a 60 shot match a 32 shot group is not 'extended', a 70 shot group would be 'extended', again you're not even sticking with the actual conversation in order to advance your agenda. This is far worse than anything I have seen from the bullet guys as far as misrepresenting information goes...
 
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So on one hand 3 inch groups string after string. Next line one 3/4 inch group. So if you cherry pick that group your a dreamer. So if you shoot 3/4 inch, 3shot groups indoors string after string, day after day is that not relevant ? I don't shoot field target I am a bench shooter. No manic to extended groups except it will separate a good shooter from a poorer shooter . Orvreverse it, a good shooter shooting 2 different rifles. It does not require 50 shot groups to find which is the better one

If you have a rifle that shoots 3/4 inch 5shot groups as Ann average and you shoot a 50 shot 3/4 inch group I am impressed with you as a shooter. That is hard to do. But I can shoot say 5 of the 3/4 in groups in a row, do it agsin tomorrow and feel the rifle is capable . Do say you can't know without extended groyps I belive is incorrect. How do center fire shooter shoot aggs in good conditions ourdoors around .150? They certianly fire no extended groups.
Your the guy pushing an agenda.
 
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thane said:
In a match Barrels can drift, regs can chill, scopes can temp shift.

50 shot group will show it, 3 or 5 shot groupings will not. FT does not allow unlimited sighters...
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If the target does NOT fall and you see where shot went ... There's your sighter :LOL:
 
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Motorhead said:
As one who competes in FT with a .20 cal, that leaves a single pellet being the JSB exact 13.73g, so making sure each and every pellet at least has a round skirt profile is done before any big GP event.
Thank goodness the QC on this pellet has been excellent over many years !!! Having a stash of over 40 tins of 500 makes sure if QC of current production falters I'm not effected :love:
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@Motorhead - so am i cutting myself short shooting my .20 using H&N 11.43's? I have the JSB 13.73 on hand but never loaded one :cool:
 
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Motorhead said:
Just in wind bucking and BC value :unsure:
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o_O
Guess i may have to spend some more time piddling = to create = TWO more dope charts.
one for the TM1000 HFT pistol
and
one for the TMX1000 EFT pistol
terrible luck... darn... shucks... i'll have to force myself to shoot more airguns this weekend. ;)
 
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JW. said:
What?

You are the one misrepresenting my words, I clearly called it out and you ignored it.

Post like a man not like some kind of passive aggressive twat who needs to lie to make a stupid unrelated point.

Or come out to a FT match and get smoked by someone using the math.
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Dont make me pull over this car!
 
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cavedweller said:
o_O
Guess i may have to spend some more time piddling = to create = TWO more dope charts.
one for the TM1000 HFT pistol
and
one for the TMX1000 EFT pistol
terrible luck... darn... shucks... i'll have to force myself to shoot more airguns this weekend. ;)
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Honestly ... just for BC value alone and the fact they shoot so damn well would be shooting the JSB 13.73 in Both pistols !!
 
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