Air Venturi Refilling an Avenge X (complete Newbie)

[MedicUp]

Forgive my ignorance. I have short term memory issues and thus the apologies right out of the gate if this has been answered repeatedly. I have searched for info but may have already forgot what I've read because honestly, that's something that that happens. I've been researching for a few weeks now and was just about to make the purchase of an Avenge X and misc. associated gear, thinking I had things lined up in my head of what was needed. But, just to be certain, I asked via customer service chat at Pyramyd Air about what size bottle I should be looking at for an Avenge X via a used Scott 4500 psi SCBA bottle as I may have access to a few (I'm a retired/disabled Paramedic). However he stated and I quote "The size of the SCBA will not matter. With the high fill pressure of the gun, even a tank filled to 4500 psi, you will get less than 1 full fill of the gun. A compressor is a better option for the Avenge X."

This is blowing my mind. With everything that I've watched and read over the past few weeks, I was under the impression that once I had the SCBA refilled, I could use it to refill the rifle multiple times. Granted, I had no clue just how many refills might be possible, considering all the possible variables including but not limited to original starting pressure, how many shots taken, altitude/barometric pressures, etc..

Can the wise and sage ones one here maybe give me the real skinny? Clue this old man in to what's really going on? Was this just an attempt at getting me to purchase a high dollar compressor right off the bat or is this information correct? Something doesn't seem correct here.

Thanks for any advice you may have.
John

 

[jackp_MDB]

When I started out, I purchased a large (99 Cubic Foot) tank and found out that only 1 or 2 would refill to the 300 Bar range. The tank pressure almost always goes below 300 Bar after the first fill. Then I just keep filling to the highest it will go. I normally get multiple fills in/over the 250 Bar range.
I like the tank, even if it doesn't get back to 300 Bar because it's so fast compared to using a compressor...just live with the lower psi.

 

[jackp_MDB]

Check the Refill Calculator, https://airguntactical.com/pages/calculators

 

[JimD]

The issue is the fact that the maximum fill pressure of the bottle and the gun are the same. So if you fill the bottle to 300 bar and try to fill the gun to 300 with it you will not get there. Each subsequent fill be to a lower pressure. But fortunately the only impact of filling the gun to lower pressure is less shots. As long as you fill the gun to a pressure above the regulator pressure the velocity will be the same. The power will be the same. The accuracy will be the same.

The key to the bottle versus compressor choice is in my opinion how good an option you have to fill the bottle. I would not get a bottle without knowing for sure that you have a convenient reasonable cost way to get it filled. It sounds like you may. But I would be sure. Tell your potential source what you want them to fill and get their feedback. Filling a gun from a bottle is my favorite way to fill it. I use a Yong Heng compressor to fill my retired Scott airpak. Because it is more than 15 years old I cannot get it commercially filled. DOT certified tanks cost more than a decent compressor. But if you can get the tank for a good deal and get it filled conveniently it may be your best option.

A simple alternate would be a GX CS2 or CS3. They will take 5 minutes or so to refill a gun but can be powered by a battery, your car, or 120V. They can fill it to 300 bar every time. They are low 70s db so not real loud and don't take up a lot of space. Less space than a bottle. You can get a CS2 from GX for $250 delivered if you order direct from GX and use their 10% off coupon. Or order from Amazon for $300 and purchase an extended warranty for about another $50 if your want. Set up takes maybe 15 minutes. You have to remember to start the compressor with the bleed valve open and open it first when shutting it off. Change the filter for the air occasionally.

 

[Gerry52]

What's the max fill pressure for the Avenge X? My guns are either 220bar or 250bar. Is the X fill pressure greater than that? I'm assuming it's 300bar. You wouldn't be able to fill to MAX a number of times but WOULD be able to fill to, let's say 225-250 a number of times. Your gun will still function as it should even if it's not filled all the way up. (What JimD, above said) Don't sweat the MAX FILL thing. It's an easily workable situation.

 

[MedicUp]

What's the max fill pressure for the Avenge X? My guns are either 220bar or 250bar. Is the X fill pressure greater than that? I'm assuming it's 300bar. You wouldn't be able to fill to MAX a number of times but WOULD be able to fill to, let's say 225-250 a number of times. Your gun will still function as it should even if it's not filled all the way up. (What JimD, above said) Don't sweat the MAX FILL thing. It's an easily workable situation.

I can't answer the max fill pressure since I don't have the actual gun. So far, it's all greek to me but I appreciate the input.

 

[MedicUp]

The issue is the fact that the maximum fill pressure of the bottle and the gun are the same. So if you fill the bottle to 300 bar and try to fill the gun to 300 with it you will not get there. Each subsequent fill be to a lower pressure. But fortunately the only impact of filling the gun to lower pressure is less shots. As long as you fill the gun to a pressure above the regulator pressure the velocity will be the same. The power will be the same. The accuracy will be the same.

The key to the bottle versus compressor choice is in my opinion how good an option you have to fill the bottle. I would not get a bottle without knowing for sure that you have a convenient reasonable cost way to get it filled. It sounds like you may. But I would be sure. Tell your potential source what you want them to fill and get their feedback. Filling a gun from a bottle is my favorite way to fill it. I use a Yong Heng compressor to fill my retired Scott airpak. Because it is more than 15 years old I cannot get it commercially filled. DOT certified tanks cost more than a decent compressor. But if you can get the tank for a good deal and get it filled conveniently it may be your best option.

A simple alternate would be a GX CS2 or CS3. They will take 5 minutes or so to refill a gun but can be powered by a battery, your car, or 120V. They can fill it to 300 bar every time. They are low 70s db so not real loud and don't take up a lot of space. Less space than a bottle. You can get a CS2 from GX for $250 delivered if you order direct from GX and use their 10% off coupon. Or order from Amazon for $300 and purchase an extended warranty for about another $50 if your want. Set up takes maybe 15 minutes. You have to remember to start the compressor with the bleed valve open and open it first when shutting it off. Change the filter for the air occasionally.

Thanks @JimD, I appreciate the input.

 

[JimD]

I am pretty sure the max fill is 300 bar. I plugged that and a 210 cc capacity (assumes tube gun, not bottle gun) and a fill pressure for the tank of 4500 psi into the calculator on this website. It says you can get 2 full fills. I assumed a 45 minute Scott airpak which is about 67 cubic feet, I think. That is what I have. But if I assume you are OK with a gun fill pressure of 3500 psi, I get like 22 gun fills. I think it said 55 gun fills to 3000 psi. You probably would not do it that way, I haven't. I fill to the maximum the tank will give me. So that will give you less gun fills but about the same number of shots.

So there is a HUGE difference between usable gun fills and full gun fills, especially for a 300 bar airgun. I define a usable fill as anything above the regulator pressure. A full fill is to the gun's fill limit. Your shot count will depend on where your regulator is set. You cannot set the regulator at 3000, I think the limit is 2900 psi and I haven't shot my Avenger with a fill above 2600. 2100 to 2200 psi is a very usable regulator setting in my opinion. If you set it at 2200 you can shoot it down to that level and get at least a magazine or so of shots with even a 2500 psi fill.

The bottom line is a bottle will give you very few full gun fills of an Avenger but it will give you a lot of very usable gun fills. How many shots per fill is dependent on the tune but for a 22 caliber Avenger, even a 3500 psi fill should give you at least a couple dozen shots with a regulator set at 2200 psi. It might give you three dozen.

 

[MedicUp]

I am pretty sure the max fill is 300 bar. I plugged that and a 210 cc capacity (assumes tube gun, not bottle gun) and a fill pressure for the tank of 4500 psi into the calculator on this website. It says you can get 2 full fills. I assumed a 45 minute Scott airpak which is about 67 cubic feet, I think. That is what I have. But if I assume you are OK with a gun fill pressure of 3500 psi, I get like 22 gun fills. I think it said 55 gun fills to 3000 psi. You probably would not do it that way, I haven't. I fill to the maximum the tank will give me. So that will give you less gun fills but about the same number of shots.

So there is a HUGE difference between usable gun fills and full gun fills, especially for a 300 bar airgun. I define a usable fill as anything above the regulator pressure. A full fill is to the gun's fill limit. Your shot count will depend on where your regulator is set. You cannot set the regulator at 3000, I think the limit is 2900 psi and I haven't shot my Avenger with a fill above 2600. 2100 to 2200 psi is a very usable regulator setting in my opinion. If you set it at 2200 you can shoot it down to that level and get at least a magazine or so of shots with even a 2500 psi fill.

The bottom line is a bottle will give you very few full gun fills of an Avenger but it will give you a lot of very usable gun fills. How many shots per fill is dependent on the tune but for a 22 caliber Avenger, even a 3500 psi fill should give you at least a couple dozen shots with a regulator set at 2200 psi. It might give you three dozen.

Again, thanks @JimD. Since I've not shot with PCPs, I have no idea how all this works in the real world so what you just typed has helped me understand. I used to be a really sharp fella. But with prescription induced brain damage, I'm not as quick to catch on any more and it takes me a bit with new concepts. (Hint, don't take "Lyrica" and you'll avoid what happened to me.)

I honestly have no idea what to expect since I've not purchased or shot the gun yet.

 

[JimD]

Glad it helped. After my first response I got the idea you might need somebody with more experience spend a few minutes with the fill calculator.

I don't understand your limitations but if you go the compressor route you may want to get a compressor that will shut itself off when it reaches the fill pressure. If you think you might forget to shut it off, you should probably spend a bit more to have that feature. That would mean, in the GX line, a CS3 instead of a CS2. They are the same mechanically, just a few more features on the CS3. The noise it makes holds my attention so I don't place a high value on that feature but many people do.

For that matter, bottles do not shut themselves off either. But on that point if you get a gun with a 300 bar fill you wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[MedicUp]

Glad it helped. After my first response I got the idea you might need somebody with more experience spend a few minutes with the fill calculator.

I don't understand your limitations but if you go the compressor route you may want to get a compressor that will shut itself off when it reaches the fill pressure. If you think you might forget to shut it off, you should probably spend a bit more to have that feature. That would mean, in the GX line, a CS3 instead of a CS2. They are the same mechanically, just a few more features on the CS3. The noise it makes holds my attention so I don't place a high value on that feature but many people do.

For that matter, bottles do not shut themselves off either. But on that point if you get a gun with a 300 bar fill you wouldn't have to worry about it.

My limitations are pain and cognitive based. The Lyrica caused permanent brain damage that resulted in dementia like symptoms. The pain is long term chronic in various areas but I am ambulatory. Some days, just can’t stand/walk as long as others. It really varies but hopefully last week’s back surgery will alleviate some of that pain. It’s too early yet to tell the final results.

I have no shame in what happened and try to spread the word because if it can happen to me a someone very cognizant of the inherent risks of medication used (I read all the little papers that come with every drug prescribed to me), it can happen to anybody. DO NOT take LYRICA despite what doctors say. It’s not worth the risk. Changed my life forever and put an end to my 26 year career I loved. It was a calling for which I was very good and had literally impacted thousands upon thousands of lives, saving an unknown number over that career.

I had no plans to ever retire, thinking I’d be a working Paramedic until the day I died. I was wrong.

 

[MedicUp]

Glad it helped. After my first response I got the idea you might need somebody with more experience spend a few minutes with the fill calculator.

I don't understand your limitations but if you go the compressor route you may want to get a compressor that will shut itself off when it reaches the fill pressure. If you think you might forget to shut it off, you should probably spend a bit more to have that feature. That would mean, in the GX line, a CS3 instead of a CS2. They are the same mechanically, just a few more features on the CS3. The noise it makes holds my attention so I don't place a high value on that feature but many people do.

For that matter, bottles do not shut themselves off either. But on that point if you get a gun with a 300 bar fill you wouldn't have to worry about it.

Also, I’m pretty well sold on the Avenge X. Just haven’t settled on which version, classic versus tactical. The Tactical is appealing for sure but so is the adjustable cheek on the classic.