Sorting and weighing pellets for vertical accuracy improvement:

[1911Tex]

Just finished weighing a tin of 400 JSB .117 Diablo Match Exact Monster 13.43 gr. pellets. Why? Looking for a tighter vertical spread shooting my RWS Diana 48 at a 40 yard target using a bench sandbag rest and 6X scope. I am typically getting 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" vertical spread with a few outliers which could be me or the gun. Horizontal variations are very acceptable within 3/4" average pretty consistently. Here are my pellet weight sorting results from a new tin:

Only 56% of the 400 pellets are within 10 gr. +/- 13.43 gr.; which is surprising as the tin specifically states "Match"!!
29% are 11-15gr. over 13.43 gr.;
11% are 11-15 gr. under 13.43 gr. and
4% are deformed or obvious outliers.
I found this sorting and weighting experiment very interesting, though tiring. Took the 56% to the range and found a very positive 3/4"-1" vertical grouping with 3 targets, each with 5 shots. Horizontal spread actually improved to 1/2" average.
Happy it was not the gun or me; but again surprised how few pellets are within 10 gr. of labeled 13.43gr Match tin...barely over 1/2 tin !

 

[Franklink]

Just finished weighing a tin of 400 JSB .117 Diablo Match Exact Monster 13.43 gr. pellets. Why? Looking for a tighter vertical spread shooting my RWS Diana 48 at a 40 yard target using a bench sandbag rest and 6X scope. I am typically getting 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" vertical spread with a few outliers which could be me or the gun. Horizontal variations are very acceptable within 3/4" average pretty consistently. Here are my pellet weight sorting results from a new tin:

Only 56% of the 400 pellets are within 10 gr. +/- 13.43 gr.; which is surprising as the tin specifically states "Match"!!
29% are 11-15gr. over 13.43 gr.;
11% are 11-15 gr. under 13.43 gr. and
4% are deformed or obvious outliers.
I found this sorting and weighting experiment very interesting, though tiring. Took the 56% to the range and found a very positive 3/4"-1" vertical grouping with 3 targets, each with 5 shots. Horizontal spread actually improved to 1/2" average.
Happy it was not the gun or me; but again surprised how few pellets are within 10 gr. of labeled 13.43gr Match tin...barely over 1/2 tin !

You gotta be talking tenths (or maybe hundredths?) of grains.

Cuz "10gr. +/- 13.43 gr." is a range of 3.43 gr. up to 23.43gr.

And your "gr." cant be grams cuz there's more than 15grains in a gram.

Your vertical dispersions are cuz you're shooting a springer, not b/c your pellets weigh a couple hundredths of a grain different from one another.

 

[marflow 777]

yes, he forgot the 0.10
now i have dozens of these weigh the pellet posts over the years and they all have one thing in common
the pellets in the can don't weigh the same, most end up with 5 or 6 piles
now add in the pellet head size and we will send the men in the white coats to your house because you will really be have to much fun

 

[Motorhead]

Once you start to get a handle controlling valve dwell able to very controllably launch pellets w/o wasting air, the subtle weight differences won't matter as much.
JMO as seen time and time again over many years of observing said cause & effect.

Your result may differ ....

 

[CoyoteGod]

I sort my pellets quite often, especially my hades hunting pellets. I actually spend time on most pellets from JSB and FX and it pays off nicely.

I get much better SD and spread with sorting. I also lightly lube and remove any damage deformed pellets. 1 tin does produce a large variety of grain categories because of their inconsistencies and quality control. The time spent, at least for me does show up later in the data and the accuracy.

 

[Vana2]

As a plinker and casual shooter I shoot mostly straight from the tin but I do use sorted (weight and head size) pellets when testing, tuning and serious target work.

I'm seeing similar sorting results as mentioned above and am not surprised. Tins are filled with pellets produced from multiple swaging machines, with dies that may be slightly different do to tolerances and wear. Tolerances in the lead wire feedstock alloy and diameter can have a bearing on the finished product. Thermal change as the swaging machine comes up to temperature after starting a new production run or vibrations from external sources can impact consistency.

Outliers and damaged pellets aside (literally) the average shooter, using common airguns, at typical ranges, is not going to see much difference with shooting straight from the tin. Skilled shooters using finely tuned precision airguns at longer ranges will benefit from sorting pellets.

All considered, I think most decent brands of pellets are pretty good for typical use. Serious competitors would probably disagree with me.

Cheers!

 

[scottblair]

Once you start to get a handle controlling valve dwell able to very controllably launch pellets w/o wasting air, the subtle weight differences won't matter as much.
JMO as seen time and time again over many years of observing said cause & effect.

Your result may differ ....

He's shooting a springer. No valve dwell involved!

 

[JEFFPPC]

More scope power will help you more than any sorting you do. Yes, in terms of consistency pellets are junk. I have weight whole time and had about one , that 1, dozen weigh what the tin says.They are the weak link in the system. So relax, shoot them our of the tin, work with your tune, refine your bench manners, and always have flags. Your group's will shrink.

 

[CoyoteGod]

As a plinker and casual shooter I shoot mostly straight from the tin but I do use sorted (weight and head size) pellets when testing, tuning and serious target work.

I'm seeing similar sorting results as mentioned above and am not surprised. Tins are filled with pellets produced from multiple swaging machines, with dies that may be slightly different do to tolerances and wear. Tolerances in the lead wire feedstock alloy and diameter can have a bearing on the finished product. Thermal change as the swaging machine comes up to temperature after starting a new production run or vibrations from external sources can impact consistency.

Outliers and damaged pellets aside (literally) the average shooter, using common airguns, at typical ranges, is not going to see much difference with shooting straight from the tin. Skilled shooters using finely tuned precision airguns at longer ranges will benefit from sorting pellets.

All considered, I think most decent brands of pellets are pretty good for typical use. Serious competitors would probably disagree with me.

Cheers!

I agree! If you have time to sort, you would probably see a benefit If using the most common pellet manufacturers. But if you buy the brands known for better quality control and consistency out of the tin, sorting is not all that practical. Time + Benefit = ?

 

[Motorhead]

FIT in a springer is key !!! You will gain tighter ES when the "Cork in a bottle" effect is uniform shot to shot.
Pellets that load easy feeling little to no resistance seating will be poor in this regard.

As too JSB Monsters in 13.43 g the newer REDESIGNS trend to be a larger skirt and may offer a bit more more compression and snugger fit over the original straight skirt "Trashcan" shape of the 1st gen style.

 

[1911Tex]

FIT in a springer is key !!! You will gain tighter ES when the "Cork in a bottle" effect is uniform shot to shot.
Pellets that load easy feeling little to no resistance seating will be poor in this regard.

As too JSB Monsters in 13.43 g the newer REDESIGNS trend to be a larger skirt and may offer a bit more more compression and snugger fit over the original straight skirt "Trashcan" shape of the 1st gen style.

Motorhead you are absolutely correct...FIT is optimal. I tried the "Redesigned" JSB match Diabolo Monster 13.43gr pellets. Your idea was my original thinking, because of the new "redesigned" label. In my personal '48, the "redesigned" skirts are too wide, cannot be finger pushed into the chambers completely and if left to the breech bolt, the result is very minor, but noticeable mashed lead residue collecting around the cone that needed to be removed after a dozen or so shots. The original same 13.43 still needs a fair finger push to seat flat against the cone; the compression of air does the final expansion of the skirt. Therefore again in my personal '48, (others rifles may have a different conclusion)...perhaps that is why JSB still manufactures both. Again, your thought is right in line with my original thinking and appreciate your post! I do believe my pellet sorting has accomplished my issue...so far!

 

[dan_house]

IF you think it's an advantage, then it is one.

Your gun will tell you if its worth it or not.......

 

[tommyb]

FIT in a springer is key !!! You will gain tighter ES when the "Cork in a bottle" effect is uniform shot to shot.
Pellets that load easy feeling little to no resistance seating will be poor in this regard.

As too JSB Monsters in 13.43 g the newer REDESIGNS trend to be a larger skirt and may offer a bit more more compression and snugger fit over the original straight skirt "Trashcan" shape of the 1st gen style.

Scott - a related troubleshooting question for you.

I purchased a RAW TM1000X .177 which I use exclusively for 30 and 40Y Target Challenge Shooting. The gun is a laser and I have been fortunate to get very high scoring with this rifle. Shoots 190+ out of 200 possible for every card I have shot or submitted so far at 30Y.

For the last couple of months, I have been getting pretty regular fliers with the Trash Cans. It's not the pellets, it's the pellet probe alignment and/or adjustment that needs attention. Mentioned to Martin a while back and he thinks the pellet may be tilting as the probe inserts it into the bore. Here's the strange part. If I use my thumb to press firmly the pellet into the chamber, my side lever cocking closes smoothly. On those occasions it's very accurate. However about every 3rd or 4th pellet, the cocking lever will struggle to close and then I get a wild flier, several inches or even feet from my desired POA.

I have not yet loosened the probe set screw to adjust, because I don't know what I am doing. Lol.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Tom

 

[Motorhead]

Is the barrels leade fully rifled to the breech face ? ... or is there some freebore / throat that allows pellet to semi freely go into bore ?

 

[tommyb]

Is the barrels leade fully rifled to the breech face ? ... or is there some freebore / throat that allows pellet to semi freely go into bore ?

The barrel butts up against the thimble, which is flush against the breech face. There is a set screw on the thimble which when fastened, should be flush against the barrel. No space between thimble and breech, it must be flush.

I think it might be a pellet probe adjustment issue, but not sure. Martin will work on this under warranty, but I was just fishing around for some ideas or if anyone has had this happen with their TM1000X .177?

Joe C and I are exchanging PMs, so I saw this thread and your post and was just curious.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Motorhead]

1st off .... NOT a fan of thimbles !!! As there freebored for no pellet contact leaving the pellet to self center once at barrel face. Once probe pin is pushing on skirt cavity it can be reluctant to move finding a true center to push against. As such YAW might be introduced having a pellet get pushed into bore ever so slightly tilted & off center at skirt creating a yaw condition even before pellet is shot.
If hell bent on keeping thimble ? .... A shallow taper on barrel leade and a soft on/off pressure tap tap when as you feel pellet going into bore can help probe find true center of skirt when seating.

Ability to clock a barrel via a fitted thimble IMO is a good thing at times, but not a necessity either.

I would have barrel re-machined to eliminate said "Thimble" Have leade set up at full rifling to breech face so you can "Feel" insertion with finger having pellet skirt go up against a taper / beveled edge that equally & uniformly squares up the pellet YAW free before probe pushes it in to required seating depth.

JMO ...

PS, This is another posters thread & we are adding Non Content to there conversation. May wish to start your own conversation

 

[tommyb]

OP, did not mean to hijack. Scott got me thinking with his post and I emailed him now and took it off line.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Avator]

I cast, tumble and sort my .22 and .25 pellets. I give a .20 +- tolerance and get great results with guns that shoot my cast pellets well. Some guns are just plain picky.

 

[1911Tex]

IF you think it's an advantage, then it is one.

Your gun will tell you if its worth it or not.......

OP here; In my case, apparently there is some advantage to sorting...Note...I don't waste targets!!! Correction..I remeasured the distance from muzzle to target and it is 36yds, not 40yds as mentioned in post #1. Same sandbagged bench, 6x scope and my 2012 manufactured Diana 48 with PG4 Vortek Tune. And using the same .177 JSB Diablo Exact 13.43 pellets (not the "Redesigned")

At center is an "original example" of "un-sorted" pellets; a typical 1-1/2" to 1-3/4" vertical spread what I was trying to correct with sorting.
After sorting:
At 9 o'clock is the 11% mentioned.
At 3 o'clock is the 29% mentioned.
At 6 o'clock is the 56% mentioned. Still a small amount of vertical spread, but very tight.
Thanks!