N/A EXPLODING PCP???

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Imagine misusing something and then demanding a refund on the product that ended up being the victim of misuse?

Sure, how can I say it was misuse? exactly .... how can you say its manufacturer defect? exactly.

Why not wait for all the info before posting at all? what did you expect to happen?
 
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Ultralight said:
I'm not scaremongering or crying wolf.

I am asking for more details - we were supposed to go to the range this week to sight in one of my PCPs, and he was going to bring this unit.

I will update more. But as I understand, it is bone stock, under 1 year old, not exceeding fill specification, and indoor at normal room temp. As to pictures or manufacturer, once posted, this information cannot be unposted. But if I am conservative, I can also post later after I double-check my info. In this day and age, where anyone can claim anything on the web and the prevailing culture can be quite acidic in crucifying the manufacturer, I would rather be cautious. The photos, to me, are stunning. But if I post the photos, the manufacturer would immediately be identified, hence my caution at this point.

He's already written the manufacturer twice and a major USA dealer once. My own opinion is that they should give him a refund AND a new gun for his troubles, but this is subjective on my part.
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I'm sorry but a replacement for me would be out of the question until a full inspection and transparency was made/given by the manufacturer. If they refuse I would scream from the highest mountain top so the whole airgun world could hear.
 
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Avator said:
I'm sorry but a replacement for me would be out of the question until a full inspection and transparency was made/given by the manufacturer. If they refuse I would scream from the highest mountain top so the whole airgun world could hear.
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This is why I am cautious about sharing the brand. I think that this can happen to any brand and thus, my greater interest for now is to learn about how often this happens with PCP. As noted, I have always wondered about this question. PCPs range in pressure and the top I've heard is 5K, which is significantly higher than the pressure in this gun at that particular moment. I wonder how much more damage higher pressure can cause.

To confirm: Gun was in case, stock down, barrel up, babied, and bone stock. Zero physical modifications. I can vouch for my friend, a lifetime outdoorsman, still vigorous and sharp. He's well acquainted with PCPs, owning many, up to FX.

I am asking his permission to post pictures. It is HIS pictures so his decision.
 
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Motorhead said:
Over fill would be my thoughts .... Similar to a few years ago with a fellow who was working with and modifying his and others big Bore Crosman / Benjamin PCP's to operate well above stated Working Pressure ratings.
The push back from said individual was shockingly brash that what he was doing was fine, would be fine and all the Cautious warnings by forum members were just static & he has no desire in listening too it.

Without some more disclosing information on OP's recent Crying Wolf Story .... I'm incline to not get ruffled about it as there are Always 2 sides of any story !!!
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How do you keep the orings seated at that level of pressure? 4500psi won't blow a healthy tank, so 6000+. If it isnt regulated one of the orings in the gun would blow. If it is regulated the regulator orings or the regulator would blow well before the tank. 1/4 inch aluminum vs a gun oring or regulator is not a contest.
 
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Ultralight said:
This is why I am cautious about sharing the brand. I think that this can happen to anyone and thus, my greater interest for now is to learn about how often this happens with PCP. As noted, I have always wondered about this question. Some PCPs are 5K pressure which is significantly higher than the pressure in this gun at that particular moment.

To confirm: Gun was in case, stock down, barrel up, babied, and bone stock. Zero physical modifications. I can vouch for my friend, a lifetime outdoorsman, still vigorous and sharp. He's well acquainted with PCPs, owning many, up to FX.

I am asking his permission to post pictures. It is HIS pictures so his decision.
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Ill repeat my post

Imagine misusing something and then demanding a refund on the product that ended up being the victim of misuse?

Sure, how can I say it was misuse? exactly .... how can you say its manufacturer defect? exactly.

Why not wait for all the info before posting at all? what did you expect to happen?

Those 5k pressure have titanium tubes and there's 1 or two that I know about. That would be the Huben K1.
 
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Ultralight said:
I'm not scaremongering or crying wolf.

I am asking for more details - we were supposed to go to the range this week to sight in one of my PCPs, and he was going to bring this unit.

I will update more. But as I understand, it is bone stock, under 1 year old, not exceeding fill specification, and indoor at normal room temp. As to pictures or manufacturer, once posted, this information cannot be unposted. But if I am conservative, I can also post later after I double-check my info. In this day and age, where anyone can claim anything on the web and the prevailing culture can be quite acidic in crucifying the manufacturer, I would rather be cautious. The photos, to me, are stunning. But if I post the photos, the manufacturer would immediately be identified, hence my caution at this point.

He's already written the manufacturer twice and a major USA dealer once. My own opinion is that they should give him a refund AND a new gun for his troubles, but this is subjective on my part.
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No, this falls into Consumer Product Safety Commision territory. Giving the commercial entities the opportunity to cover up the problem is a bad idea.

If it really happened and there was no user error then it is a life threatening event.
 
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_CTAIRGUNNER_ said:
Ill repeat my post

Imagine misusing something and then demanding a refund on the product that ended up being the victim of misuse?

Sure, how can I say it was misuse? exactly .... how can you say its manufacturer defect? exactly.

Why not wait for all the info before posting at all? what did you expect to happen?

Those 5k pressure have titanium tubes and there's 1 or two that I know about. That would be the Huben K1.
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I should clarify that my interest is to understand the inherent safety of PCPs at this point. Hence, I mentioned the highest pressure I know of which is Huben, for the sake of discussion. I did not say that this is a Huben.

Just to vouch for my friend. I know that when they test for carbon fiber tanks, one of the company doing the testing pressurize the tanks to 7500 psi underwater and measures the expansion of the tank. And if it checks out, the tank then is good for another 5 years to be filled to the rated 4500 psi or whatever the particular tank is rated to. How do I know? From him educating me. He has his tanks checked every 5 years for safety and educated me on how he maintains tanks.

My wife and I are chatting with my buddy and his wife this morning. They were on the range a few days ago with this very piece. ALL of us are immensely thankful that nothing happened. I've not seen it myself yet, but I hope to see it in person eventually. Apparently, some of the shards are 'knife-like' according to the wife. Needless to say, both feel immensely thankful that it did not fail until after their range time. So are we. Could have been having a very very different conversation right now.

And yes, they are taking this seriously, and yes, they know that others should be warned. This is serious enough that they will hand-deliver it to the manufacturer rather than risk losing it in the mail. But I am at their pace - and I won't post any specifics until they OK this. Ultimately, this is not my info to divulge as to the brand at this point, but we can discuss general safety of PCPs in this thread even without knowing the manufacturer.

I hope that you guys do not mind my being measured about all of this.
 
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Ultralight said:
I should clarify that my interest is to understand the inherent safety of PCPs at this point. Hence, I mentioned the highest pressure I know of which is Huben, for the sake of discussion. I did not say that this is a Huben.

Just to vouch for my friend. I know that when they test for carbon fiber tanks, one of the company doing the testing pressurize the tanks to 7500 psi underwater and measures the expansion of the tank. And if it checks out, the tank then is good for another 5 years to be filled to the rated 4500 psi or whatever the particular tank is rated to. How do I know? From him educating me. He has his tanks checked every 5 years for safety and educated me on how he maintains tanks.
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The actual test of the carbon fiber tanks is a rapid fill and degas , tens thousands of times, this was actually implemented and designed by the Navy to increase the longevity of the tanks already aboard Navy ships so that the Navy could avoid the 50 million dollar replacement costs on the expired tanks.

He , he , he, .... who is he? other than what you say? where are the pictures? Come on man.
 
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Gerry52 said:
Caution about WHAT? Getting sued? Can't sue you for showing pictures a friend sent to you. So far this is heresay, nothing more.
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I want to be respectful of this thread's interaction and respond to the discussion. But I won't keep explaining why I won't post particulars at this point. I already provided my reasons. From this point on, I won't interact further with the demands for photos and brand. That can come later - it is up to the owner.

Thanks.
 
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Snowy556 said:
Yeah I'd like to see some pictures of the rifle aftermath. This is an irrational fear of mine with these rifles and my air tank 😅
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LOL! You and me. Statistically, failures in any mechanical equipment can happen. My question is how often.

Hence, I think this discussion is valid for the good of all, from manufacturers to end users, if done respectfully.
 
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_CTAIRGUNNER_ said:
The actual test of the carbon fiber tanks is a rapid fill and degas , tens thousands of times, this was actually implemented and designed by the Navy to increase the longevity of the tanks already aboard Navy ships so that the Navy could avoid the 50 million dollar replacement costs on the expired tanks.

He , he , he, .... who is he? other than what you say? where are the pictures? Come on man.
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2016 the Navy went to ultrasound as their inspection regimen. They have also tried Computed Tomography xray. I haven't seen anything beyond the initial RFQ for the CT scan since. My assumption is the CT scan just takes too long and the base hardware cost too much for it to be used.

But they most assuredly do not use hydro testing anymore.
 
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Ultralight said:
As noted, I have always wondered about this question. Some PCPs are 5K pressure which is significantly higher than the pressure in this gun at that particular moment.
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Now I'm not here to poke holes at anyone, but this statement in bold above does open the door for many to speculate ???

There are very few PCP's that fill to 5000 psi for one. 300 bar is the most common upper limit which closer is to 4350 psi
Was said PCP rifle a 300 bar fill gun, perhaps a 250 bar or most common 200 bar or # 3000 psi fill ? * as statement said "At that particular moment"

It only takes a single over pressure cycle to do permanent damage to an air tank or cylinder. This could happen very easily as likely most of us have done so at one time or another .. I'm being brutally honest here !!!
Also some foreign manufactures have questionable QC on the materials used in manfacturing, lack testing guidelines or requirements in meeting the country of export destination.

Questions questions questions :cautious::cautious::cautious::cautious:
 
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