How important is the initial energy dump rt after impact a factor when u shoot for hunting, or gel test for that matter or do prefer a long wound channel .what do folks think ?
N/A Damage from slug energy
- Thread starter mikey fingers
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That depends on what your hunting, going for hogs, raccons, or armadillos? Get a slug that can penetrate deep enough without fragmenting or expanding so quickly.
Going for squirrels, birds, iguanas? Go for a slug with a larger cavity, softer lead and thinner hp walls to expand quickly upon entry.
I agree with JaceSpace's post but want to make some points. First, the term "energy dump" is, in my opinion, nonsense. In movies we see people flying through the air after being hit from a shotgun, for instance. That sort of thing does not happen from shoulder fired weapons. If it did, the shooter would fly through the air too! We see images of wound channels in ballistic gel and think that is what our airguns do. It is not. Rounds well under 1000 fps do not move animal tissue fast enough to permanently damage it except in the direct path of the projectile. The tissue off to the sides expands and then moves back essentially undamaged. Much higher velocity rifles do expand animal tissue fast enough to damage it but not most pistols and essentially all air rifles.
What expansion of air rifle projectiles does is create a wider and not as deep hole through the animal. JaceSpace correctly points out that small animals like squirrels do not require a lot of penetration to reach vital organs. A solid projectile is likely to exit from guns 25fpe (approximately) or higher. A wider hole will do more damage and tend to lead to a faster death for the animal just like use of a larger caliber would. So for something like my near 40 fpe Caiman X in 22 caliber, I have no issue with H&N slugs that expand because they still penetrate far enough in wet paper that I know they will get to the squirrels vitals and may even exit. I think it's a good idea to test expanding projectiles to understand how much penetration you will get but the basic idea that a wider wound channel is preferable to an exiting pellet is a totally valid point.
I will also add, however, that I've killed over 20 squirrels with a non-expanding domed pellet from my 177. I only lost one and it was totally my fault, I shot it in the rear end and it crawled off where I couldn't find it after it fell. So I have over 20 clean kills with a non-expanding 177. The squirrels drop a little quicker with a 22 or 25 but expansion is not really necessary in my opinion for squirrels. It's OK to have it but the squirrel will drop very quickly as long as you place the projectile properly. Non-expanding 22s and 25s drop squirrels at impact most of the time and no reasonably placed projectile will let them travel more than a few feet.
What expansion of air rifle projectiles does is create a wider and not as deep hole through the animal. JaceSpace correctly points out that small animals like squirrels do not require a lot of penetration to reach vital organs. A solid projectile is likely to exit from guns 25fpe (approximately) or higher. A wider hole will do more damage and tend to lead to a faster death for the animal just like use of a larger caliber would. So for something like my near 40 fpe Caiman X in 22 caliber, I have no issue with H&N slugs that expand because they still penetrate far enough in wet paper that I know they will get to the squirrels vitals and may even exit. I think it's a good idea to test expanding projectiles to understand how much penetration you will get but the basic idea that a wider wound channel is preferable to an exiting pellet is a totally valid point.
I will also add, however, that I've killed over 20 squirrels with a non-expanding domed pellet from my 177. I only lost one and it was totally my fault, I shot it in the rear end and it crawled off where I couldn't find it after it fell. So I have over 20 clean kills with a non-expanding 177. The squirrels drop a little quicker with a 22 or 25 but expansion is not really necessary in my opinion for squirrels. It's OK to have it but the squirrel will drop very quickly as long as you place the projectile properly. Non-expanding 22s and 25s drop squirrels at impact most of the time and no reasonably placed projectile will let them travel more than a few feet.
Hi, I'm new over here, any pellets suggestion for iguanas? Minimal pass through is key. I do not have the rifle yet, still deciding between the Notos and the Beeman Commodore 13625.
Thanks in advance.
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Good afternoon and welcome! The no toes does not make enough power to warrant using slugs, is the other one a 177 or a 22?
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I’ve only shot trash pandas close range with 34 g JSB pellets and 38g slugs at same power level and no contest on destructive damage at terminal end.
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The biggest thing with using slugs, as the your gun has to make at least enough power to shoot them accurately, but also to make them expand. There are no lightweight slugs that you could use on the notos that would be worth using over the atomics/hades pellets. The light is slug that I would recommend you use is the jsb .216 20.83gr slugs, the issue is that the notos would push those at sub 600fps. They may still expand but you wouldn't be able to take out iguanas of all sizes.
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So, better stay with pellets, atomics/ hades are your suggestion.
Regarding the rifle, any advice on which one could work better for iguanas? I know the Notos is very popular but the Beeman looks promising, and at a lower cost.
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my notos shoots 17.5gr nsa slugs just under 850 with decent accuracy. i think jsb 15gr or crosman domes would do well for out to 30 yards with the stock notos.
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akela taught me not to look down on .177 as how i remember them when i was a kid. my friend has a ghost .22 and mora .22 that i got to shoot.. insane. airguns are in a different world nowadays.
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Not a stock notos. Seems like an important piece of information… and by the time you’re done modding your Notos to make 850 with 17.5gr slugs you could have bought a gun that is able to do so (and more) in the first place…
Edit: but fully agree, 15gr/Hades wo the a stock Notos at 760ish will do more than fine for squirrels and such out to 30-40y. I think the farthest my 100% stock Notos took with hades was 57y to the off switch of a squirrel. That said, I only took that shot with it because literally nothing else had air. 35y and in or so it’s amazing though, equally accurate as guns running you a Notos 10x.
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No experience with the Berman, but the ntotos has taken everything from 4" to 5' out to 40yds. Bigger ones took more shots though.
If you can get yourself an akela that would have more than enough power to take down any iguana you want. The .177 will shoot slugs and the .22s wont but they are more than accurate and powerful enough. You can find them at airgunrevisions.com
Yours isn't stock though, my stock notos pushed 14.3gr cp at 730fps, the huben 25cc plenum plus bottle bumped it to 765fps.
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With standard 25g, .25cal pellets running ~750fps, I have had many shoot-thru head shots on gray squirrels. They're dead...but I have to be careful of what's downrange.
80+ squirrels since May...and I've picked up quite a few pellets that could be shot again. I have yet to find a domed one showing expansion.
I would like to see ballistics gel testing with PCPs and common pellets & slugs...in .177, .22, and .25.
80+ squirrels since May...and I've picked up quite a few pellets that could be shot again. I have yet to find a domed one showing expansion.
I would like to see ballistics gel testing with PCPs and common pellets & slugs...in .177, .22, and .25.
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Go on youtube and look up dangolwinner he doesn't make YT videos anymore but he's made amazing videos on slugs expanding at point blank range, 50yds and 96yds at high speed and low speed across multiple different brands and weights. There are also many posts on here regarding slug expansion @greenbeans , Myself and @RoosterCogburn have made a few, there are plenty of others.
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Wide cavity, thin wall, pure lead. If youre concerned about pass through. Use a VK, HP2,Take aim, or the wide mouth jsb slugs. Basically limited to .216 20.83 or .217 28.55 in 22. In .177 JSB mk3 rules the roost in lower and medium powered guns. If you've got the umph behind you Take aim or varmint knocker. I've done threads ok both in .177 and .22 for both. Im currently working on experimenting with 32-44gr .250s 58fpe and up. In those threads you'll find real life images, slugs dug out of the prey which they stopped in. The varmint knocker 13 and jsb 10.03 will typically explode into tiny fragments within the depth of a small rodent skull or even inside a much less dense bird body.
If you want to see real results, the latter 1/2 of this thread is worth checking. https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/head-shot-thread.1312648/
If you want to see real results, the latter 1/2 of this thread is worth checking. https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/head-shot-thread.1312648/