Daystate New to Delta Wolf - Questions

[cavedweller]

The Delta/Alpha wolf platform is absolutely amazing - if you got a lemon, don’t give up, ask AOA to get it sorted; their techs know their stuff…if they can’t sort it have them replace it completely-they will do that.
The best advice i can share is don’t start fiddling with the settings, use the factory mode for a good while and only start tweaking things if you have a specific need.
Learn this platform from the bottom up.
Electronic Airguns are the future but we won’t leave our mechanical wonders behind either - they are simply 1/2 brothers.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

What do you all recommend for an adjustable bag rider for a DW/AW? I’m shooting my AW off an Accutech bipod, and I need to figure something out to better stabilize the rear of the gun.

Daystate makes one. Check on AOA's website.

 

[Solo1]

What do you all recommend for an adjustable bag rider for a DW/AW? I’m shooting my AW off an Accutech bipod, and I need to figure something out to better stabilize the rear of the gun.

I use 1 of these and like it

Amazon.com

 

[ZipBang]

In theory only, and I say "only" because I haven't received my .30 DW yet, it's enroute, Advanced Mode should yield consistent results leaving the barrel regardless of atmospheric conditions. In free flight (out of the barrel) atmospheric conditions do have a significant impact on trajectory of the round, particularly at longer range. I suppose there could be one exception based on extreme temperature changes, assuming the swing in temperature is significant enough to materially change the dimension of the barrel (expansion/contraction). Assuming a starting point of 950 fps is the target speed, a slug or pellet will travel the length of the barrel (600mm) in .0020724 sec....plus a small additional time to accelerate from zero to 950 fps and a dwell time between firing and fully open valve, so I'd round up and set the time to 2,750us as a start. The optimum is open the valve as quickly as possible, leave it open until the slug or pellet is exiting the barrel so set the voltage at 85. Pick a pressure setting 175bar, fire the rifle. Adjust the pressure setting to increase or decrease the speed to achieve the closest value to 950 or above, then decrease the time setting to attain 950 fps. The final setting should provide repeatable results day in day out, notwithstanding projectile irregularities, or the condition of the bore, both could increaase or decrease drag in the barrel.

 

[Centercut]

In theory only, and I say "only" because I haven't received my .30 DW yet, it's enroute, Advanced Mode should yield consistent results leaving the barrel regardless of atmospheric conditions. In free flight (out of the barrel) atmospheric conditions do have a significant impact on trajectory of the round, particularly at longer range. I suppose there could be one exception based on extreme temperature changes, assuming the swing in temperature is significant enough to materially change the dimension of the barrel (expansion/contraction). Assuming a starting point of 950 fps is the target speed, a slug or pellet will travel the length of the barrel (600mm) in .0020724 sec....plus a small additional time to accelerate from zero to 950 fps and a dwell time between firing and fully open valve, so I'd round up and set the time to 2,750us as a start. The optimum is open the valve as quickly as possible, leave it open until the slug or pellet is exiting the barrel so set the voltage at 85. Pick a pressure setting 175bar, fire the rifle. Adjust the pressure setting to increase or decrease the speed to achieve the closest value to 950 or above, then decrease the time setting to attain 950 fps. The final setting should provide repeatable results day in day out, notwithstanding projectile irregularities, or the condition of the bore, both could increaase or decrease drag in the barrel.

Or you could follow @cavedweller 's advice and start with the Factory Mode, which is what the gun was designed for. Not sure where this "950" came from, but the majority of .30 pellets are most accurate from 850 to 900 fps. I shoot the JSB 50.1 from mine at 870 fps using Factory Mode, and I've had my DW since they first came to the USA (early 2021?). It's an MOA gun at 100 yards under good conditions. Your speed will change with atmospheric conditions (temp, pressure, humidity) when using the Advanced Mode. If Factory Mode, the gun will maintain your desired speed at or in whatever conditions you shoot.

 

[ZipBang]

Or you could follow @cavedweller 's advice and start with the Factory Mode, which is what the gun was designed for. Not sure where this "950" came from, but the majority of .30 pellets are most accurate from 850 to 900 fps. I shoot the JSB 50.1 from mine at 870 fps using Factory Mode, and I've had my DW since they first came to the USA (early 2021?). It's an MOA gun at 100 yards under good conditions. Your speed will change with atmospheric conditions (temp, pressure, humidity) when using the Advanced Mode. If Factory Mode, the gun will maintain your desired speed at or in whatever conditions you shoot.

OK....I've shot over 500 RMR slugs at the same advanced setting yielding 900 fps +- 5 and shot consistency is just fine. I appreciate that factory mode works for many, and advanced mode also works just fine.

 

[Centercut]

OK....I've shot over 500 RMR slugs at the same advanced setting yielding 900 fps +- 5 and shot consistency is just fine. I appreciate that factory mode works for many, and advanced mode also works just fine.

Yup, that sounds good. Did you shoot some at sea level, and others at 4500 feet? Did you shoot some at 45 degrees and others at 85 degrees? How about in the morning when very humid and then after it dries out in the afternoon? I'll guarantee you that your speed wouldn't remain constant in those situations. If all you're going to do is shoot it like a Red Wolf, then Advanced is great... But to take advantage of what the designers and engineers provided for you; Factory mode is the way to go...

 

[ZipBang]

Curious.....how much do you believe atmospheric conditions affect a projectile in level flight within 100 yards? Yes shooting at extreme angles have significant impact. But what about pure atmospheric variables. At 100 yards is it significant? From what research I've done (albeit mostly standard powder cartridges) until you reach out to 500 yards (even then) the differences are negligible. Wind and the shooter's abilities are the two most relevant variables.

 

[Centercut]

Curious.....how much do you believe atmospheric conditions affect a projectile in level flight within 100 yards? Yes shooting at extreme angles have significant impact. But what about pure atmospheric variables. At 100 yards is it significant? From what research I've done (albeit mostly standard powder cartridges) until you reach out to 500 yards (even then) the differences are negligible. Wind and the shooter's abilities are the two most relevant variables.

I’m talking about INTERNAL ballistics and how the gun actually functions, not EXTERNAL after it leaves the muzzle. And yes, without a doubt speed is affected by weather and location factors.
I experienced this in December at the EFT GP event in Orlando with a borrowed .25 Delta Wolf set up in Advanced mode. It was shooting MK2 Heavy on day 1 in sunny very warm weather at 900 fps. The next morning for day 2, chilly and humid, the same gun with the same ammo with the same Advanced settings was shooting 880 fps.
You tell me if that makes any difference at 100 yards because I already experienced the answer.
In factory mode it would have shot the same speed both days.
Mic drop….

 

[ZipBang]

I’m talking about INTERNAL ballistics and how the gun actually functions, not EXTERNAL after it leaves the muzzle. And yes, without a doubt speed is affected by weather and location factors.
I experienced this in December at the EFT GP event in Orlando with a borrowed .25 Delta Wolf set up in Advanced mode. It was shooting MK2 Heavy on day 1 in sunny very warm weather at 900 fps. The next morning for day 2, chilly and humid, the same gun with the same ammo with the same Advanced settings was shooting 880 fps.
You tell me if that makes any difference at 100 yards because I already experienced the answer.
In factory mode it would have shot the same speed both days.
Mic drop….

My experience shooting in NH.....in temperatures ranging from 20 degrees to 65 degrees; in adv. mode it shoots consistently 900fps +-5 at the same setting. I suppose if you leave the rifle in the sun and the barrel heats up thermal expansion my play a role. How do you believe temperature and humidity affected the rifle, and the electromechnical components of the rifle, beyond thermal expansion or contraction? I guess with your experience I assume all the rifles that aren't electronic would have to be adjusted mechanically every day there is a significant change in temperature?????? My Brocock .25 sniper xr magnum has been extremely accurate with the same setup shooting H&N slugs for 2 years.

 

[Centercut]

My experience shooting in NH.....in temperatures ranging from 20 degrees to 65 degrees; in adv. mode it shoots consistently 900fps +-5 at the same setting. I suppose if you leave the rifle in the sun and the barrel heats up thermal expansion my play a role. How do you believe temperature and humidity affected the rifle, and the electromechnical components of the rifle, beyond thermal expansion or contraction? I guess with your experience I assume all the rifles that aren't electronic would have to be adjusted mechanically every day there is a significant change in temperature?????? My Brocock .25 sniper xr magnum has been extremely accurate with the same setup shooting H&N slugs for 2 years.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion...

 

[ZipBang]

OK...but I'm still curious how temperature affects the internal workings of a Delta wolf, or any other PCP. If the temperature variation had the affect on the rifle you were shooting, it should also affect every rifle. It's not an opinion, since you said it was a fact that you experienced. So you piqued my curiosity about how the temperature variation could change the performance of the rifle.

 

[Centercut]

OK...but I'm still curious how temperature affects the internal workings of a Delta wolf, or any other PCP. If the temperature variation had the affect on the rifle you were shooting, it should also affect every rifle. It's not an opinion, since you said it was a fact that you experienced. So you piqued my curiosity about how the temperature variation could change the performance of the rifle.

Agree, it wasn't my opinion. It was what actually happened. Another example was a couple of years back, I had my .30 FX Bobcat at about 3500 ft elevation (Descanso, CA) in the early AM. It was tuned at sea level (San Diego, CA) and 75-to-80-degree temperatures for 880 fps with JSB 44.75 pellets. When I checked prior to shooting that morning in 45-degree weather, the speed was 855 fps. And later that day in the afternoon when temps had risen to 80 degrees, the speed was at about 880 fps... So yes, not opinion on my part...

 

[Palptine]

And in more detail...

Background info:

The difference is with a Red Wolf, there is only a pressure sensor that works off bottle pressure and an algorithm that tells the gun control unit to shoot at whatever settings give the gun a power that you want. So, as the gun pressure goes down, the GCU will cause the solenoid (hammer) to hit the valve hard enough to give consistent power from 250 bar down to the pressure where it can no longer make that power. For my .25 RW HP with King Heavy pellets, that is about 170 bar.

For a DW/AW, in Advanced Mode, it is similar, except the regulator in the gun keeps the pressure in the plenum constant, so the gun functions similar to the RW, but reacts to the constant REG pressure vice the decreasing BOTTLE pressure.

For a DW/AW in Factory Mode, it does the same PLUS it uses the signal from the barrel's chronograph to input pellet Speed back into the equation. So, if the speed is set for 875 FPS, and the pellets goes at greater than 4 FPS higher or lower than set speed for two consecutive shots, the GCU will adjust the hammer strike (voltage and/or dwell) to lower/raise the speed towards the operator's set point.

Make sense? The gun retains those settings at the set speeds that the operator has used, so that the next time you select that speed it already knows what worked prior, and can set those parameters so the gun shoots at the set speed very quickly, usually on the first shot...

What is the big advantage to that you might ask? We don't always shoot at the same atmospheric conditions (temp, pressure, altitude). On a regular gun (Red Wolf, Impact, Cricket, Thomas, RAW, Taipan, FX, etc.), temperature or altitude will affect the speed at which the gun shoots. So, if you go out at 7am, and it’s 45 degrees, your gun might be shooting at 855 or 860 FPS and you zero your gun before you head out. Then as the day goes on and temp gets to 85 degrees and might be shooting at 880 or 885 FPS. Not within "minute of squirrel" at 100 yards. Also, you may have tuned and zero'd your gun at sea level, but later on taken it to shoot target or hunt at 4000 feet elevation. It will shoot at a different speed with a different POI there than at home.

With the DW/AW in Factory Mode, the gun will sense any speed changes and auto correct to your set speed as conditions change. Start at 45 degrees, or sea level, temp goes up or you change elevation, gun still shoots at set speed. The downside is that you'll no longer be able to blame the gun when you miss!

Tuning instructions:

Ok firstly at least for .30 and .25, use FACTORY mode. Set reg pressure higher, like 165 or 160 bar. I’m not sure if this method works with .22 because I haven’t used .22 much.

Decide which speed you want by trying various speeds until you find your most accurate with that ammo.
Now, once you know, lower reg pressure 10 bar. Now see if the gun will do your speed in 3 or 4 shots. If it does, lower 10 bar again. Try to get to your desired speed. Keep going until you get to a pressure that your gun won’t come up to speed.
Now raise pressure 5 bar and try to get to your speed. If it does, you’ve found your pressure. If it doesn’t quickly in no more than 3 or 4 shots, raise it 5 bar again. That’s your new pressure. On my gun that is 135 bar in .30 caliber for 86 FPE.

Make sense?
I recommend using factory mode with this “lowest functional” pressure.

Mr. Centercut, your advice has helped me a lot with my delta wolf cal .25.
I wanted to ask you what is the regular pressure in your DW cal .25 and at what fps?
Greetings from Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, World´s End.

 

[Centercut]

Mr. Centercut, your advice has helped me a lot with my delta wolf cal .25.
I wanted to ask you what is the regular pressure in your DW cal .25 and at what fps?
Greetings from Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, World´s End.

Thank you.
Mine is a .30 Delta Wolf. I shoot in FACTORY MODE and 135 bar to get 870 fps with JSB 50.1 grain pellets.

 

[cavedweller]

thanks @cavedweller for bringing this up again
thanks @Centercut for your answer - I know that I need to spend some time with the rifle that I just don't seem to have.

I know the rifle has accuracy in it, somewhere - just need to unlock it.
I will say that it is dead on at .25 cal, the .177 cal is what is lacking with my rifle.

@SDstephan
If you haven’t heard this yet, it’s good information. Because my Ghost Carbine had a leak issue I sent it back to AOA and in the meantime I broke out my Alphawolf; which promptly developed a Chrono issue - probably due to me. So I sent AOA my 13” alphawolf barrel too, and promptly installed a 28” barrel with chrono on the Alphawolf. Keep in mind that the factory settings for a 28” barrel don’t support an HFT legal speed/pellet combo sooo I took a wild arse guess and in factory mode I told it I was using a 13” barrel and a 8.4 pellet and desired a speed of around 890 fps. I left the regulator at 127 bar and As luck would have it, those settings caused the 28” barrel to push a JSB 10.34’s at 890fps after just 4 shots
And….. look at this trajectory:

Houston we have lift off!

 

[SDstephan]

@SDstephan
If you haven’t heard this yet, it’s good information. Because my Ghost Carbine had a leak issue I sent it back to AOA and in the meantime I broke out my Alphawolf; which promptly developed a Chrono issue - probably due to me. So I sent AOA my 13” alphawolf barrel too, and promptly installed a 28” barrel with chrono on the Alphawolf. Keep in mind that the factory settings don’t support an HFT legal speed/pellet combo sooo I took a wild arse guess and in factory mode I told it I was using a 13” barrel and a 8.4 pellet and desired a speed of around 890 fps. I left the regulator at 127 bar and As luck would have it, those settings caused the 28” barrel to push a JSB 10.34’s at 890fps after just 4 shots
And….. look at this trajectory:
View attachment 462559
Houston we have lift off!

Nice number @cavedweller
I would guess that the gun took the speed desired (890 fps) and did it's adjustments based on the actual, not inputted weight.

I have the 23 inch barrel both for 177 and 25. I never had an issue keeping the power level to sub-20. It was accuracy that was lacking- again it's time I need to spend that I haven't really had. Now that the Thomas is set up I could but there is a match every weekend from here on out....first world problems.

 

[Palptine]

Mr. Centercut, your advice has helped me a lot with my delta wolf cal .25.
I wanted to ask you what is the regular pressure in your DW cal .25 and at what fps?
Greetings from Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina, World´s End.

Thanks for your reply.
And with that regular pressure of 135 bar in FACTORY MODE, when setting 870 fps, doesn't the system give you an error? Doesn't it tell you in red that the pressure is not enough?

 

[cavedweller]

Thanks for your reply.
And with that regular pressure of 135 bar in FACTORY MODE, when setting 870 fps, doesn't the system give you an error? Doesn't it tell you in red that the pressure is not enough?

The red is just a suggested pressure but you can use alternative settings.

 

[cavedweller]

OK...but I'm still curious how temperature affects the internal workings of a Delta wolf, or any other PCP. If the temperature variation had the affect on the rifle you were shooting, it should also affect every rifle. It's not an opinion, since you said it was a fact that you experienced. So you piqued my curiosity about how the temperature variation could change the performance of the rifle.

It is a well known issue that if you get the derelin shroud boss too hard against the chassis body when pushing chrono contacts in to make proper contact, that a temperature shift can affect your POI - happened recently to a well known shooter at the Cajun classics. @BC can shine more light on this. When I first got my Deltawolf in Alphawolf skin, he explained and adjusted my shroud chassis interface to prevent problems - working perfectly. I use a business card as my approx separator between shroud boss and chassis. I’ve been contemplating using a vey thin foam spacer as a more predictable solution.