New World Record Longest Airgun Hit

[Altaros]

I'm glad the video raised awareness of these periscopic devices

We manufacture the MOA Boosters ourselves, so in terms of price, it is one of the cheapest pieces of equipment in my lineup, certainly cheaper than the Nikon P1000 or TrigerCam, and I'm talking about the entire presented set of 4 MOA Boosters.

Adjustable mounts are good, that's why we also have it on the M24 as a base. Primarily, however, in my opinion, it is particularly suitable for getting the most out of the riflescope (possibility of setting it to the lower range and having the entire range of the riflescope available for shooting at greater distances), but just like an extremely expensive rifle scope that does not adjust the crosshairs but the tilt, they have one major drawback for me. This change of position of rifelscope changes the holding of the rifle and the necessity of a different facing (changing the setting of the cheekpiece). This setting can seriously degrade aiming accuracy and is generally inconvenient.

I am able to install the MOA booster within 1 minute. On the other hand, for me, adjusting the cheekpieces correctly is a matter of several shootings (not shots, but several visits to the shooting range) and when I finally find the right setting, I don't fundamentally change it, because accurate shooting is about the same execution of everything and that is best done by the body's habit himself.

With the MOA Booster, I face exactly the same whether I shoot at 36m or at 1600m, the only difference is the tilt of the rifle itself.

The original plan to offer the MOA Booster is to offer it in a set with our special M24 set with a suitable scope and just set MOA Booster to be able to shoot from 0 to 1000 yards.
Considering that the holder is different for each rifle scope, we have not yet planned to offer it separately, but if there was more interest in a particular type of rifle scope, then it would probably also be possible.

 

[Altaros]

So that no one thinks that ATP Super King 67gr .223 slugs are intended only for extreme distances such as 1 mile record shoting, or shooting at 1000 yards and so on, here is such a classic shooting at a normal airgun distance

I would also like to discuss a matter that I have previously posted here in this thread

Due to the recent experience of fraud regarding the world record for the longest airgun hit, I, as the current world record holder, would like to open up a discussion and agree on clear rules that any future attempts (including my own) should meet, so that the authenticity of the world record is not compromised possible to doubt and also to clearly prove fraudulent matters even for people who have no experience shooting at these extreme distances.


My proposal is this, and I would like to discuss the individual points of the rules here:

1)
Minimum difference between records 100 yards, target size 1 , or 2 MOA , always rounded up.
So there can be 2 records at the same time or only one if the 1 MOA record is at a greater distance than the last record with a 2 MOA target. The 2 MOA target size is borrowed from the website of the current firearms world record holder (distance 4.4 miles)

2)
Obligation of demonstrable video footage from which the distance and the indicated size of the target can be determined. Ideally measuring the target through the rifle scope + photo target with some usable scale or gauge).

3)
brand and type of rifle, possibly modifications, brand and type of ammunition, brand and type of rifle scope (reticle), muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, temperature, atmospheric pressure or altitude.

4)
Show a video of a shooter with a rifle and ammunition in real time while setting a record.

5)
Verify the distance at least with a video with a laser rangefinder or a video in a fully provable way using a drone with GPS and a distance indicator. Both ways are ideal.

6)
Video recording of the target hit + photos of the target after the hit. A remote camera is ideal, but a camera placed near the target can also be used.

7)
An unedited recording of at least 5 previous shots before hitting the target, created in such a way that it was possible to verify the real flight time of the projectile and also to check that the previous projectiles flew for a similar length of time as the one that hit the target (it is physically impossible for the flight time of individual projectiles to be essential time difference)

 

[rodjava]

So that no one thinks that ATP Super King 67gr .223 slugs are intended only for extreme distances such as 1 mile record shoting, or shooting at 1000 yards and so on, here is such a classic shooting at a normal airgun distance

I would also like to discuss a matter that I have previously posted here in this thread

Due to the recent experience of fraud regarding the world record for the longest airgun hit, I, as the current world record holder, would like to open up a discussion and agree on clear rules that any future attempts (including my own) should meet, so that the authenticity of the world record is not compromised possible to doubt and also to clearly prove fraudulent matters even for people who have no experience shooting at these extreme distances.


My proposal is this, and I would like to discuss the individual points of the rules here:

1)
Minimum difference between records 100 yards, target size 1 , or 2 MOA , always rounded up.
So there can be 2 records at the same time or only one if the 1 MOA record is at a greater distance than the last record with a 2 MOA target. The 2 MOA target size is borrowed from the website of the current firearms world record holder (distance 4.4 miles)

2)
Obligation of demonstrable video footage from which the distance and the indicated size of the target can be determined. Ideally measuring the target through the rifle scope + photo target with some usable scale or gauge).

3)
State, Name and type of rifle, possibly modifications, brand and type of ammunition, brand and type of rifle scope (reticle), muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, temperature, atmospheric pressure or altitude.

4)
Show a video of a shooter with a rifle and ammunition in real time while setting a record.

5)
Verify the distance at least with a video with a laser rangefinder or a video in a fully provable way using a drone with GPS and a distance indicator. Both ways are ideal.

6)
Video recording of the target hit + photos of the target after the hit. A remote camera is ideal, but a camera placed near the target can also be used.

7)
An unedited recording of at least 5 previous shots before hitting the target, created in such a way that it was possible to verify the real flight time of the projectile and also to check that the previous projectiles flew for a similar length of time as the one that hit the target (it is physically impossible for the flight time of individual projectiles to be essential time difference)

Your suggestions and terms seam reasonable to me.

 

[MadCowCrazy2]

"at a normal airgun distance"

Hmm, so 200m is the new normal?
I have been wanting to get my hands on the Altaros M24 since I first heard of it and this year I will finally be able to get my hands on it.
I intend to do what I consider a "proper" review of it by putting at least 10 000 rounds trough it. The local gunrange where I shoot only goes up to 300m but my goal has always been to shoot air at 300m.
There has been talks of building a 700m range on the island I live on but I don't know if that ever went anywhere.
I would really love to try and set some records but as the local range is 300m I'd have to try and find some other place. Then again when the sea freezes here I guess I technically have any unlimited range only limited by the max possible by the physical properties of the equipment.
I'm sure I can figure something out and 2024 seems to be a really great year for me, my store and youtube channel launch

As for the M24, how is the new aluminium stock coming along? Will you be launching this version soon?
The scope I use is the Vector Optics Minotaur 12-60x60 GenII MFL SFP, from what I interpret from the above is that the MOA Booster has to be custom made per riflescope? So there is no quick connector thing like the Pard FD1 front clip on scope?
As I intend to focus on "long range" airgun shooting I have contacted March and inquired about their March 8x-80x56 High Master Wide Angle MAJESTA Riflescope but it's currently outside my budget and I'm not even sure spending close to €$4000 on a scope is worth it.
I'm guessing the MOA Booster would never be made for this scope as I'm 100% sure it's not a very common scope, I doubt a single person in Finland owns one.

How many MOA Boosters would have to be made for a particular scope for you to make it? or would you consider making a custom one for any scope if the person was simply willing to pay the manufacturing costs?
As it's a very niche product if it was possible to create a quick swap system that would be ideal but I'm guessing precision needs to be extremely high for it to function properly. When I say quick swap I mean those plastic sleeves that come with certain digital scopes to make the fit tighter. The triggercam has sleeves as well but I'd expect the plastic would make the MOA Booster wobbly?

 

[genericAGuser]

And the point of shooting a mile with an airgun, with a 14 foot hold over is?

 

[MadCowCrazy2]

And the point of shooting a mile with an airgun, with a 14 foot hold over is?

Same reason as for every sport in existence. To push the limits of what can be done. To quote a guy who put a jet engine in a bike "Because we can!".
It's the male instinct to push the limits of what's possible, it's what drives real men to go beyond what normies can comprehend.
What's the point? Because it's cool, fun, interesting, why do we have world records for anything? To be the best at a particular thing.

As mentioned above, there is this drive that some people have to push what people think is possible far beyond what's considered normal.
Without this drive we would still be stuck in the stone age but people took risks, experimented and did things incomprehensible to some people.
Show a mobile phone to a primitive person and they might kill you for witchcraft (saw a story about this exact thing happening when tourists encountered some uncontacted tribe and they were all killed because of their phones and cameras).

The "point" is to do something that goes beyond what seems possible for the sole reason to prove that it can be done.
but then again...

Spoiler

 

[Healthservices]

And the point of shooting a mile with an airgun, with a 14 foot hold over is?

This is why!

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style="position:absolute; width:100%; height:100%;"
src="https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/28a698...794a8f86/embed?autoplay=false&responsive=true"
frameborder="0"
></iframe>
</div>

 

[Healthservices]

Right here.

PCP rifles

www.altaros.cz

Ok apparently I'm a little slow. Can someone give me a direct link to the "MOA booster" please?

Allen

 

[rigbymauser]

Hmm, so 200m is the new normal?

If you`ve been here on AGN long enough you know 200m is a benchmark...:LOL'

If one mentioned in the 1970s shooting pigeons at 40yards with a .177cal airgun it was groundbreaking to a point of the unbelieveable. Here a 20-25yard shot on a sparrow was in fact a very far shot. Growing up with airgunning since mid 1970s it has been a long journey to where we are today. Shooting cokecans @ +200yards isn´t amazing it self but amazing if one looks back 45-50 years down the road.

 

[MadCowCrazy2]

Ok apparently I'm a little slow. Can someone give me a direct link to the "MOA booster" please?

Allen

Not available yet, from what has been mentioned above it is to be sold in a boxed set with M24 rifle and scope unless I misunderstood it.

There are a few boosters on the market but they quite expensive but quite compact and can add up to 250+ MILs or 800 MOA depending on version.

 

[Healthservices]

Ah, so I misunderstood.

Allen

 

[Peashooter]

I am ready to stretch .177 out past 100 M ( 130 M ) and if i could shoot heavier than 13 gr good, i would be open for pushing way past 130 M
I would personally prefer to keep the target size around 3 - 4 inches or so, shooting say 400 M after a target that is bigger than a football / soccer ball, dont seem so interesting to me.
And shooting 1000 M and hitting a car door, well it might not be easy to do, but i would find it silly

No matter what ideally i like to see 2" groups at the max, no matter the distance, and shorter distances like 100 M well the target should be a tic tac - a dice or something like that, for sure something smaller than 1 inch.

 

[Nofilters]

thank you all for your kind words, it's been a really long journey. At these distances, every +100 yards means a significant increase in difficulty, so even if only +377 yards were added to the original record, the difficulty has increased by much more than just the ratio between 1400 and 1777 yards.


the periscope is raised a lot, but the image of the barrel/silencer already extends into the area of the reticle, as can be seen here in the photo.
View attachment 385749
If you zoom in as much as possible (24zoom, this is a black larger target than was used on the record), you can usually see through well. Unfortunately, the scopecam video for the record is of poorer quality, as I was moved by the placement of the TriggerCam
View attachment 385750

236 bar -3422PSI was the outlet pressure from the regulator to the valve chamber. 144J - 108FPE was muzzle velocity ( at the end of the barrel ) and 33J- 25FPE on the target.

As I already wrote, we have an approved agreement with UPS to import airguns to the USA. The only thing we don't have at all right now are M24s in stock. So as soon as the new ones are in stock, it will be possible to order the M24 on the e-shop with direct air transport to the USA

I suggest you do not deal with industry-known distribution companies here in the USA as they have been accused of not being on the up and up. Suspected to manipulate inventory and price control to downline dealers. Therefore monopolizing the market of pricing and availability. This caused longtime relationships to go bye-bye!!! Do your homework and/or distribute them yourself.

 

[Altaros]

Hmm, so 200m is the new normal?


How many MOA Boosters would have to be made for a particular scope for you to make it? or would you consider making a custom one for any scope if the person was simply willing to pay the manufacturing costs?
As it's a very niche product if it was possible to create a quick swap system that would be ideal but I'm guessing precision needs to be extremely high for it to function properly. When I say quick swap I mean those plastic sleeves that come with certain digital scopes to make the fit tighter. The triggercam has sleeves as well but I'd expect the plastic would make the MOA Booster wobbly?

for me, the 200m distance has been standard training with the airgun for about 4 years (not counting the shooting range or the accuracy check at 36m in the tunnel). This is mainly due to the fact that the first suitable permanent shooting range where I could shoot from the window of the house with the newly produced CNC slugs was at a distance of 205m.

Since then I had the opportunity to do 2 similar shooting ranges and 200m + is such a standard for me. I will also post a video shortly, where you can see why 200m is no longer such a big distance for me.

regarding the MOA Booster, it was also presented in various forms for about 3-4 years, I just didn't make a separate video for it.
After discovering more interest in the MOA booster, it is possible that we will try to make a universal version that would fit most riflescopes. We will see how it goes.

There is no need to be afraid of using plastic, we have tested it for a very long time and it is necessary to realize that it is intended for Airguns and for common calibers (testing up to .25), not for firearms, where there is a completely different recoil. I haven't noticed any problem with changing settings in the final versions.

 

[Altaros]

I would personally prefer to keep the target size around 3 - 4 inches or so, shooting say 400 M after a target that is bigger than a football / soccer ball, dont seem so interesting to me.

this video is exactly for you

New shorter and lighter .223 slugs ATP Super King 59gr in action with M24 in aluminum stock and 5 shots magazine and oure external regulator with external setting pressure.
Not a super stable shooting position, because due to the winter outside and unpleasant weather conditions, I made a mobile shooting base in a car with full comfort with the option of heating or air conditioning if necessary.
The older I get , the more comfortable I become

 

[Scotchmo]

…

Due to the recent experience of fraud regarding the world record for the longest airgun hit, I, as the current world record holder, would like to open up a discussion and agree on clear rules that any future attempts (including my own) should meet, so that the authenticity of the world record is not compromised possible to doubt and also to clearly prove fraudulent matters even for people who have no experience shooting at these extreme distances.


My proposal is this, and I would like to discuss the individual points of the rules here:

1)
Minimum difference between records 100 yards, target size 1 , or 2 MOA , always rounded up.
So there can be 2 records at the same time or only one if the 1 MOA record is at a greater distance than the last record with a 2 MOA target. The 2 MOA target size is borrowed from the website of the current firearms world record holder (distance 4.4 miles)

2)
Obligation of demonstrable video footage from which the distance and the indicated size of the target can be determined. Ideally measuring the target through the rifle scope + photo target with some usable scale or gauge).

3)
brand and type of rifle, possibly modifications, brand and type of ammunition, brand and type of rifle scope (reticle), muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, temperature, atmospheric pressure or altitude.

4)
Show a video of a shooter with a rifle and ammunition in real time while setting a record.

5)
Verify the distance at least with a video with a laser rangefinder or a video in a fully provable way using a drone with GPS and a distance indicator. Both ways are ideal.

6)
Video recording of the target hit + photos of the target after the hit. A remote camera is ideal, but a camera placed near the target can also be used.

7)
An unedited recording of at least 5 previous shots before hitting the target, created in such a way that it was possible to verify the real flight time of the projectile and also to check that the previous projectiles flew for a similar length of time as the one that hit the target (it is physically impossible for the flight time of individual projectiles to be essential time difference)

Calling it fraud is too harsh. More like a fiasco. I believe that the attempt was well intentioned, but ill conceived. With little preparation going in and no follow up for verification. The preponderance of evidence indicted that the “new mark” on the target was not from a slug impact. When it was promoted in the news as a “new world record”, it became controversial.

As far as rules for a record attempt: If there is no limit on the number of shots, the odds of one of the shots eventually impacting the target is a certainty. Such a “world record” is of no significance, in my opinion.

Just give me the environmental conditions, velocity and BC. From that I can already determine if it’s possible.

For an actual record, some of your evidence gathering ideas are good. But I’d suggest each record attempt have a five shot limit, and must connect three out of five.

 

[Altaros]

to

Scotchmo​

I respect you for your technical perspective, true experience as a leading long-range competition shooter as well as a developer and builder of PCP rifles.
I understand your attempt to moderate the situation, but in this regard, in my opinion, we both know very well that it was a clear attempt to fraud, not a mistake, and yes, I take it personally and I hate these type of people from the very essence.

Matters of this type (fraud committed by someone) I will not forget for the rest of my life. Once a cheater always a cheater for me. Everyone has only one honor in their life, it is something that cannot be bought or faked.

It was clear from the technical parameters that the bullet could not even reach there. Jones, who tried to do that, has no idea what long range shooting looks like, which he showed beautifully at the last RMAC 2023 that you won, and he finished in almost last place, if I don't count the shooters who registered but did not participate in the competition in that discipline.

Johns arrogance is glaring when he does not reflect on the clearly proven evidence by several people that it could not be a record. He still has the videos including the fake title "world record" posted and on FB Airforce says he made the record.
Any sane person with a modicum of self-respect would apologize, delete everything about his scam from the internet, and hope that most people would forget about it.
On the other hand, the fact that other people in the US shooting community support him in this clearly indicates that my proposed rules are more than justified, as people's moral credit is going down pretty badly.

So much for this topic. I got extremely hard time on every western forum, especially from US shoters, where 3-4 years ago I posted real data and videos from shooting at extreme distances at the time and a rifle that no one believed was real, without providing a single proof why it couldn't be true.
Johns, US shooters will make proven fake videos, the fakeness of which will be proven by the best in the airgun industry, but almost no one will write a bad word in his direction, so as not to offend him.
If anyone is surprised that it really pisses me off, I don't know what else to write.



Thank you for the subject of the rules, but they are unprovable on the international stage. They only work at competitions such as the King of 2 miles, where at the beginning of each competition the shooters have the option of the first cold bore (and 2 others shot if hits first) and thus push the record limit.
I think that it is not a problem for the type of record, that you mention, to be established parallel to the extreme records ones that I shoot, if several competitions such as RMAC, extrem benchrest, etc. are agreed on this.
You can check this rules at these competitions, otherwise you can't check it, because as I've already written several times, you can't prove online that it was really the first shot out of 5 shots on the given day.
Therefore, these competitions are always held before the start of the King of 2 miles race and not anywhere else.
On the other hand, in my opinion, it is quite unrealistic to do this at competitions like RMAC, extrem benchrest, etc., because nobody will want to do it and often it won't even work, because they won't have a suitable distance for that type of shooting.



However, make hit at maximum distance is generally not limited in any way, and this setting records for the longest distance has been going on for years in the firearms environment. The main reason for no restriction is that it cannot be successfully controlled and therefore is not restricted in any way.
My proposed rules are also provable on the international (internet) scene, so no one is limited by their location in the world. Yes, it requires some investment, but so does climbing Everest, and no one complains in this respect. The world record is supposed to be exclusive, which means sacrificing time and resources for it.

Setting a new record is 95% about thinking and preparing everything needed, not whether you have enough air, ammunition and time.
It's about going through a lot of dead ends, figuring out how to aim, the rifle, the ammunition, the environment, the type of target and how you'll even see that you've hit something or how far or close you are to the target.
These things are not seen until the given person attempts such a record and those who have experience with it can then recognize whether the criteria have been met for such a record to be successful in any realistic probability.


A large part of time will be spent just looking for a suitable place. (For example, in the USA you have a huge advantage due to desert areas and low population).
Everything about these pitfalls, but on a larger scale, is presented in this video, that made member of the team that currently holds the firearms world record at 4.4 miles

 

[Scotchmo]

…, you can't prove online that it was really the first shot out of 5 shots on the given day.
…

Ok. It wouldn’t necessarily need to be starting with the 1st shot. As long as there are five consecutive shots where at least three hit the target.

 

[Altaros]

yes, in my opinion, this is already very reasonable and we can make another category of record, which will have more weight for those who value the true precision of the system and hold the opinion "1 random hit means nothing"

In general, this rule already has a significantly a feature that you are calling for, i.e. a significantly elimination of luck, because 3 hits out of 5 "random" hits is already much lower probability than one random hit. There is still the possibility to beat it by "brute force" by the lot number of attempts, but the difficulty of this approach increases this rule a lot.

I am happy to participate in the hunt for these records, but I still think that similar rules described above should be applied to this type of record. Since the principle is the same, fair competition for all with the maximum possible elimination of fraud. No one will be prevented from publishing their results even without sufficient evidence, but these results should be presented in an appropriate context according to the extent of the absence of evidence

 

[Altaros]

This is not any world record, but it is my personal record for longest hits string over 400m for a reasonable target size relative to the distance . I believe that it will also work for a target of around 1.5 MOA, as this was shot only after the first 15 shots after cleaning the barrel (that is, between 15-30 shots after cleaning the barrel) and you can see in the video how I first adjust a few click on the riflescope on beginning and then I correct the drop by using a hold over.
I made these corrections not only based on the fact that I hit the target below (when hitting this type of target below, it will swing more, as can be seen in the first couple of shots), but also based on the immediate measurement via the garmin chronograph. Record of this MV can be seen in the photo below, including marking the section in the graph in which the video was shot.

I know from my experience that many airgun shooters do not know that after cleaning the barrel, not only the POI changes and the accuracy is gradually restored, but also that the muzzle velocity changes significantly around the first 30-50 shots, which decreases as the barrel gradually becomes dirty by lead. This is followed by stable speed and accuracy, which can last for several hundred shots depending on the type of slugs, the smoothness of the barrel, typ of lubrication of the slugs, the type of barrel (with or without a choke) and a few other parameters.