Is anyone else uncomfortable with this

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Bravo1956

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Jun 12, 2019
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So with proper sized slugs (lets say 1/1000 under what you get when you slug your barrel) it seems that the cocking lever becomes very difficult to seat the slug.

I noticed this with my new Vulcan 3 in 25 which slugged at .2545 so I ordered some NSA 33.6 gr in .254 and they require so much force to be applied when cocking I am concerned about the long term effects of continued use.

I had the same concern with my 25 Mav but never found any slugs more accurate than 34 gr pellets so are really never became an issue.

The V3 has a 700mm CZ non chocked barrel and I bought it specifically to shoot slugs, 1st time out with the slug inventory I had (non over .250) I was really impressed with how it shot the HN 34 and 36 gr, but the NSA 36.2 in .250 were amazing!

I watched this vid


He came up with about the same results of .2545 with the V3 barrel as I, they had great results with the AVS .2553 slugs which are even larger that the NSA .254 slugs I have, so I imagine that it is even more pressure required to chamber.

To you slug shooters out there, do you just get used to the increased cocking force? Has it caused any issues with the gun?
 
Bravo,
Was thinking same thing, V3 .30 (700mm) won't group JSB 44.75s, so, after watching AVS video on slug choices for V3, decided the AVS flat base .3063 (61 grain) was worth a try. Accuracy was phenomenal but the amount of force required to chamber couldn't be healthy in the long run. Ordered ZANS new slug assortment box and some ZANS .303 (61 grain) (51 grain) for testing. Prefer the accuracy but wearing out gun parts prematurely isn't worth it, sure I'll find another good fit. WM
 
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I’ve played with slugs a little but have gone back to pellets in just about everything except my Texan. Well, that and a .25 condor that shoots the Varmint Knockers very well. So take my suggestion for what it’s worth.
Could a really enthusiastic polishing of the breech end of the barrel help you with the tight fit? As long as the slug ends up seated tightly at the point the bolt ends at, if should have zero effect on the accuracy if the chambering end is polished out a bit. Just don’t go deep with it. A careful polish with a felt polishing cylinder on a dremel with some metal polish might be the ticket.
There’s no point having to struggle to push the slug through the first quarter inch + or so of super tight bore, when it isn’t even fully seated yet.
 
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pnwairgunner said:
I’ve played with slugs a little but have gone back to pellets in just about everything except my Texan. Well, that and a .25 condor that shoots the Varmint Knockers very well. So take my suggestion for what it’s worth.
Could a really enthusiastic polishing of the breech end of the barrel help you with the tight fit? As long as the slug ends up seated tightly at the point the bolt ends at, if should have zero effect on the accuracy if the chambering end is polished out a bit. Just don’t go deep with it. A careful polish with a felt polishing cylinder on a dremel with some metal polish might be the ticket.
There’s no point having to struggle to push the slug through the first quarter inch + or so of super tight bore, when it isn’t even fully seated yet.
Click to expand...
Certainly, a possibility but not ready for that step until all other slug options are ruled out. Been a diehard pellet pusher but V3 .30 doesn't like JSB 44.75s or ZANS BR100s, so slug search is on. Never been one to stress a gun, backed off more than one HS adjustment when gun reacted with a jolt when fired, yeah, gave up some FPS but still found accuracy with a happier gun. WM
 
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It bothered me. If you shoot a lot of slugs, you may have to consider swaging. I gave up reloading for my PB's because I didn't want the extra work. If I can't find a slug that seats with reasonable force I just shoot pellets. Guns like the the Maverick and Wildcat can be especially problematic. If you have to use too much force to seat a slug, those two tiny set screws that connect the cocking lever to the cocking rod will slip, and it takes a good bit of time to get it properly re-positioned.
 
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Yes....when seating properly sized slugs in a non choked barrel, the force needed to seat them increases by quite a lot. People have bent their probes shooting properly sized slugs. When I shoot slugs thru my RAW's non choked poly barrel, if a slug seats too easily, it will inevitably be a flier because the spin needed to stabilize it is not there, slugs are spin stabilized. Someone should be making tungsten or tougher/thicker probes for slug shooting, might be a good little side business! I know someone who had a RAW and shot slugs had a tungsten probe made just for the reasons you stated, they bent probes shooting heavy slugs.
 
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Yes, that is exactly what I thought about my Mav also. I have it adjusted perfectly for 34 gr now. But I could definitely see it moving with high force over time.

Never had much luck w slugs with the 700mm Superior or Superior Heavy. But 34 gr are great out to 100 as long as it is calm, wind plays havoc on pellets at long ranges for me anyway.

The Vulcan 3 with the 700 CZ non chocked appears to be a different animal from day 1, slugs were much better at 75 and 100 than the 34 JSBs.
 
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It would sound like the breech is not made at all or is made too short. The slug has a wider tip / head than the diabolo can't remember correct term ...Ogive(?) So it immediately takes a touch of grooves. The same phenomenon has been repeated in big bores if the bullet has been too long.

My bad English now prevents me from explaining exactly what I mean. And the translator doesn't know the terms well in these matters. Let's hope that someone catches the idea of what I'm trying to bring out..🫣

It sounds exactly the same as I've been with a few friends when they've done a test with different bullets and when pushing longer bullets, you have to hammer the rest of the way in with a probe. Of course, in big bores, at least in custom built ones, that part is made stronger and can withstand a bit of force. On the other hand, some bullets, e.g. Sprire point or spitzer, have such a thin and narrow tip that there is not necessarily a contact to grooves
 
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With tight fitting slugs I have done several different breech enlarging methods to get them to enter the rifling easier. A lot of times the entrance to the rifling is a sharp machined angle, and can have burrs on it effecting loading. The simplist method is to polish a out the barrel breech some with super fine grit sandpaper. Another is to use tightly wrapped fine grit sandpaper around the top of a pencil and rotated it in there to change the angle. A tapered pin reamer is another common tool used in the airgun world to hand ream a better angle of approach. The key to all of these methods is to go slow with a steady hand and check often. Also, you are only taking some of the small diameter land off until it starts to match the larger groove diameter. It doesn't take much material removal to accomplish this.
 
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If airgun manufactures would establish a standard for breech diameter the problems you guys all described could be eliminated. With a standard diameter all that would need be done is to create a longer free-bore area ahead of the leade into the rifling. That way either a 'diabolo', or 'bullet' would enter the breech with the same amount of friction.

In the old days, PB rifle shooters believed that bullets needed to be jammed into the lands when seating the bullet to achieve the best accuracy. Over the decades, firearm rifle shooters started to realize that best accuracy from handloads often came with a 'jump' into the leade of the bore. So why not solve this issue with airgun bores expected to shoot both pellets & slugs by controlling the breech diameter and increasing free-bore into the leade???
 
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Bravo1956 said:
So with proper sized slugs (lets say 1/1000 under what you get when you slug your barrel) it seems that the cocking lever becomes very difficult to seat the slug.

I noticed this with my new Vulcan 3 in 25 which slugged at .2545 so I ordered some NSA 33.6 gr in .254 and they require so much force to be applied when cocking I am concerned about the long term effects of continued use.

I had the same concern with my 25 Mav but never found any slugs more accurate than 34 gr pellets so are really never became an issue.

The V3 has a 700mm CZ non chocked barrel and I bought it specifically to shoot slugs, 1st time out with the slug inventory I had (non over .250) I was really impressed with how it shot the HN 34 and 36 gr, but the NSA 36.2 in .250 were amazing!

I watched this vid


He came up with about the same results of .2545 with the V3 barrel as I, they had great results with the AVS .2553 slugs which are even larger that the NSA .254 slugs I have, so I imagine that it is even more pressure required to chamber.

To you slug shooters out there, do you just get used to the increased cocking force? Has it caused any issues with the gun?
Click to expand...
I was in this video with Steve. I had a 30 cal and the .3063 slugs seated firmly, not too difficult, but not effortless. There was another guy in Pennsylvania that contributed the 25 cal information that you saw, phenomenal results. AVS slugs are 100% pure lead. NSA may have a combination making it harder. I would recommend getting a batch of AVS slugs in the specified weight/diameter that was shown in the video and observe how difficult or easy they seat in the breach. A little resistance is normal as your cutting into the slug as it seats. But it should not be anywhere as difficult as to risk bending the probe.
 
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sb327 said:
I’m not familiar with the probe style in this gun, so this is just a question. Since it takes a longer pin probe to push a pellet skirt past the t-port and shorter to get a slug base past the t-port, would a shorter slug probe help here and still engage the rifling?

Dave
Click to expand...
This is what I was going to suggest. Seat a slug into the barrel then remove the barrel and see where the base of the slug is in relation to the barrel port. You'll probably find that it's seated way past the port. If this is what is happening and you can buy another probe grind down the length until it pushes it just past the port. Pellets have a hollow skirt so the probe has to be long enough to push the base of the pellet past the barrel port.
 
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I have tweaked the seating depth a little ( on my Maverick ) but before i did notice that with longer / heavier things there was resistance when chambering, it was even more pronounced with H&N slugs that have a harder compound ( comparing 20 gr Zan and H&N slugs )

I cant say it ever annoyed me or made me worry, also it is not so tight that i think " so that's why my Maverick cocking handle broke "

I have liked above post.
When i adjusted my seating depth / pellet probe i was mainly worried with alignment with the transfer ports, not least as i went away from the pin probe and back to the original FX probe, though mine are also a tiny bit modified.
 
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It's not just the probe but the entire cooking mechanism that gets stressed that I am concerned about. I will check on how to adjust the probe depth on the V3 and see if I can back it off some yet still get the back of the slug clear of the port of the barrel.
I do not plan on shooting pellets ever so not an issue there.
I remember maticulously setting my Mav probe for 34 gr JSB.
I know many shoot slugs, but was not sure if anyone else thought it troublesome?
 
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i use Zan .253 38gr slugs with excellent accuracy and action function
with my 700mm V3 out to and past 100yrds on pest birds often.
i'm going to take it after deer season for hog control in my lower
40 by the river with the ATN x-sight 4k pro, shots within 30yrds..... i used my Uragan 1 .30 last year with great results with the ATN.
my U1 is a hunting machine ! !!
much better than previous FX guns that i have owned, in my opinion..... :sneaky:
 
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Preliminary testing completed for ZANS Slug Assortment Box (.30) and ZANS .303 Slugs (51 and 61 grain) in 700mm Uragan 2 and Vulcan 3. Matching results for top grouping .30 slugs, in order, 59 grain, 54 grain and 49 grain. (45.5, 63 and 68 grain slugs didn't group well in either gun.) (All slugs fit OEM magazine except 68.) Loading force required was similar to 44.75 pellet. Matching results, as well, for .303 slugs, 61 grain best, 51 grain, not so much. Loading force required was half of AVS .3063 (61 grain.) No slug matched the accuracy of the AVS .3063 but .30 (54 and 59 grain) and .303 (61 grain) hold promise. WM
 
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