Daystate (Pics added) Daystate Delta Wolf hp .22 bad barrel fixed

[mubhaur]

You might be aware that I had a Delta Wolf of a friend. It had a bad barrel.

A few days ago I posted here that I plan to increase the choke.

Please see below the pic of the pellet pushed through the barrel. It shows a bad land in the barrel causing inaccuracy. Sorry for my dirty fingers.

All other lands leave the impression as shown in following pic.

I understand that the inaccuracy is due to one bad land.

Before going to increase the choke of the barrel, I decided to polish the barrel a bit aggressively with JB Bore Compound.

Used a very ordinary method. Put brass rod in a hand drill and on the other end put a barrel polishing cloth, applied JB and gradually polished the barrel while rotating the brass rod with drill machine.

I did gradual polish, more polished the breach area, then a bit less next area and so on and so forth.

Also polished the choke but minimum as compared to the rest of the barrel.

Cleaned the barrel and pushed a pellet through the barrel. The pellet came out in much better shape.

Installed the barrel on the gun and found that accuracy had been improved very much.

Un Installed the barrel and repeated the whole process again.

Now the pushed pellet through the barrel came out a bit loose but in much better shape.

Impression of all lands was there but no land was damaging the pellet now.

Again Installed the barrel on gun. Now it's shooting very very well at shot range of 24 yards.

I shall try it on longer ranges to conclude if it has been completely fixed or needs some more work.

If it needed more work, that will be just polishing the choke and if the choke will get unacceptably loose, I shall develop more choke.

The simple equipment used is here shown in the below pic.

I hope that I shall be completely successful in converting this bad barrel into good barrel.

Bhaur

 

[nervoustrig]

Very nice, I’m glad to see a positive result on this problem barrel. I’m not a fan of spinning anything across the rifling but I can’t argue with the results.

For others who may be interested, here’s the original post:

Daystate - Delta Wolf .22 1:20" 600mm barrel increase choke

The barrel that came with Delta Wolf is 1:20" twist rate. Its slightly chocked. Apparently very well finished. Doesn't shoot 18.13 grain or 25 grain jsb redesigned at any fps accurately. For someone I have also tried installing this barrel on a free floating barrel gun but no good accuracy. As...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[mubhaur]

Very nice, I’m glad to see a positive result on this problem barrel. I’m not a fan of spinning anything across the rifling but I can’t argue with the results.

For others who may be interested, here’s the original post:

Daystate - Delta Wolf .22 1:20" 600mm barrel increase choke

The barrel that came with Delta Wolf is 1:20" twist rate. Its slightly chocked. Apparently very well finished. Doesn't shoot 18.13 grain or 25 grain jsb redesigned at any fps accurately. For someone I have also tried installing this barrel on a free floating barrel gun but no good accuracy. As...

www.airgunnation.com

In fact I just believe that if something cannot be fixed due to manufacturing fault, it means its a total loss. In such situation one can try any procedure that one feels suitable to address the problem.

It may be out of the box.

This is because one doesn't have anything to lose.

There may be only 2% chances of success and if it doesn't work, there is no additional loss.

 

[nervoustrig]

I agree with you on that...a stinker barrel is a good opportunity to experiment. Out of curiosity, were you reversing the spin direction occasionally in an effort to smooth both sides of the lands somewhat equally?

I couldn’t see very well in the photos if it’s conventionally rifled or something more akin to polygonal. If the latter, I suspect changing direction isn’t as important.

Regarding the potential of opening up the choke by a meaningful amount with J-B, I can’t fathom ever reaching that point by hand but with a corded drill, maybe

 

[mubhaur]

I agree with you on that...a stinker barrel is a good opportunity to experiment. Out of curiosity, were you reversing the spin direction occasionally in an effort to smooth both sides of the lands somewhat equally?

I couldn’t see very well in the photos if it’s conventionally rifled or something more akin to polygonal. If the latter, I suspect changing direction isn’t as important.

Regarding the potential of opening up the choke by a meaningful amount with J-B, I can’t fathom ever reaching that point by hand but with a corded drill, maybe

It's a LW polygonal barrel designed on the specs of Daystate. I feel its an ART barrel.

 

[mubhaur]

I agree with you on that...a stinker barrel is a good opportunity to experiment. Out of curiosity, were you reversing the spin direction occasionally in an effort to smooth both sides of the lands somewhat equally?

I couldn’t see very well in the photos if it’s conventionally rifled or something more akin to polygonal. If the latter, I suspect changing direction isn’t as important.

Regarding the potential of opening up the choke by a meaningful amount with J-B, I can’t fathom ever reaching that point by hand but with a corded drill, maybe

Today tested the barrel at 70 yards and then at 100 yards from my car. Definitely its not a proper bench for stable rest.

Following are pics of a group at 100 yards and it seems to be 1 MOA CTC.

It is 7 shots group shot at around 935fps with 18.13 grain jsb pellets.

Below is the pic of my car from where I shot the group at the boundary wall highlighted in red colour.

The drill is rotated for the polish in the direction of grooves. It's a polygonal barrel of Daystate Delta Wolf made by LW.

After polishing the inside of barrel looks as in following pics.

Now I feel that I should allow the newly polished barrel to be broken in before doing any further procedure on it like increasing choke etc.

The barrel is now reasonably accurate for the user.

The wind speed during shooting was 11 km per hour as shown in pic below.

I understand that in 11 km wind and improper rest the 100 yards group is promising.

I shot more than one groups and all are very similar.

Bhaur

 

[nomojo65]

You sure that suspect land just didn’t have an extreme build up of lead and you removed it? Did you bore scope it before and after. I’m no expert but I’ve never seen JB fix or reshape a land, it’s basically why CF Benchrest shooters trust it to not damage their barrels. Iosso bore cleaner is a little more abrasive and in my experience does a better job. ( if JB will recontour a land you sure wouldn’t want to spin it 90deg. To the rifling and risk damaging the other lands? )

 

[mubhaur]

You sure that suspect land just didn’t have an extreme build up of lead and you removed it? Did you bore scope it before and after. I’m no expert but I’ve never seen JB fix or reshape a land, it’s basically why CF Benchrest shooters trust it to not damage their barrels. Iosso bore cleaner is a little more abrasive and in my experience does a better job. ( if JB will recontour a land you sure wouldn’t want to spin it 90deg. To the rifling and risk damaging the other lands? )

Agreed that my procedure was not correct.

But JB surely removed the metal from inside the barrel.

I don't have bore scope but my before and after the polishing, required force for pushing the pellet through the bore has clearly reduced.

18 grain jsb was a bit snug all the way and then choke before polish.

Now the 18 grain jsb pellet just takes a bit of force at entry from the breach and as it adapts to the dia of the bore, there is "almost" no resistance all the way to choke. Now the choke is clearly not that tight either.

I understand that I have made the complete bore a bit wider. During this process the bad land has also been affected and may be more affected than other lands.

Somehow the bad land is not enough bad to affect accuracy now.

What do you feel, should I leave it as is?

How is the result as per your understanding?

Bhaur

 

[nervoustrig]

But JB surely removed the metal from inside the barrel.

I don't have bore scope but my before and after the polishing, required force for pushing the pellet through the bore has clearly reduced.

Technically any abrasive removes metal but J-B removes so little as to be effectively zero. What it does to a new bore is blunt the microscopic surface fretting left behind from the rifling button being dragged through the bore, which can then be felt as reduced friction when pushing a pellet through.

 

[mubhaur]

Technically any abrasive removes metal but J-B removes so little as to be effectively zero. What it does to a new bore is blunt the microscopic surface fretting left behind from the rifling button being dragged through the bore, which can then be felt as reduced friction when pushing a pellet through.

I understand that there is much difference in hardness of PCP barrel and fire arm barrels.

Airgun barrels are comparatively made of softer material.

As far as the question is concerned that how much JB can remove the metal out of the barrel is a subjective matter depending upon how aggressively it is applied.

We see that even if drops of water continue falling on a stone, there appears a dimple at that point.

So it's not the matter of JB or some harsher abrasive.

I have applied JB pretty aggressively to the point that the barrel heated up during the process. Then I gave it a bit of break and again applied it.

May be a harsher abrasive would do the same job with very little effort.

Further the cloth on which JB was applied was rotating at high rpm due to the use of hand drill. I feel if I would just push and pull the JB patch without rotating it, there might be no removal of material.

Further I understand that my answer was incorrect that I rotated the patch in the direction of grooves. The way I did it, it is not possible because drill was rotating in one direction and the rod was going in and out. If during the push stroke the direction was same of the grooves then definitely during the pulling stroke, the direction would be opposite.

Am I right ?

Bhaur

 

[Ranchibi]

Bhaur, by polishing the barrel you probably smoothed out more barrel imperfections than you realize so the polishing made the whole bore smoother. You did a fantastic job and would definitely leave it alone as shooting it will season it and smooth it out even more even though minutely. The barrel in question was probably rough from the get go, nice work!

 

[nervoustrig]

I understand that there is much difference in hardness of PCP barrel and fire arm barrels.

Airgun barrels are comparatively made of softer material.

There’s an element of truth to that oft-repeated statement, but I think it misleads us to think airgun barrels are soft and fragile. Over time I have very gradually experimented with ever more aggressive bore prep methods. In the early going, it was J-B on felts or cotton patches. While more recently it’s a 180 grit slurry on a cast lap, and it has given me an appreciation for how much intense scrubbing it takes to clear even the most subtle restriction or defect. I can’t even wrap my head around how much scrubbing it would take with J-B to reshape an irregular land or alter the bore dimensions by even a ten-thousandth of an inch (0.0001” or 0.000004mm).

As such, I think the improvement came from removing a spot of leading (per Joe’s comments) trapped at the leade or perhaps on a land, or from releasing a wire edge that was left behind from a machining operation.

My apologies if I’m lingering on the point…it’s just interesting to me. But whatever the reason or reasons, the results are what matter and I’m delighted to see you reach a successful outcome.

Further I understand that my answer was incorrect that I rotated the patch in the direction of grooves. The way I did it, it is not possible because drill was rotating in one direction and the rod was going in and out. If during the push stroke the direction was same of the grooves then definitely during the pulling stroke, the direction would be opposite.

If the rotation of the drill is kept the same (i.e. clockwise), the scrubbing action is biased to one side of the lands on both the pull and the push stroke.

 

[mubhaur]

There’s an element of truth to that oft-repeated statement, but I think it misleads us to think airgun barrels are soft and fragile. Over time I have very gradually experimented with ever more aggressive bore prep methods. In the early going, it was J-B on felts or cotton patches. While more recently it’s a 180 grit slurry on a cast lap, and it has given me an appreciation for how much intense scrubbing it takes to clear even the most subtle restriction or defect. I can’t even wrap my head around how much scrubbing it would take with J-B to reshape an irregular land or alter the bore dimensions by even a ten-thousandth of an inch (0.0001” or 0.000004mm).

As such, I think the improvement came from removing a spot of leading (per Joe’s comments) trapped at the leade or perhaps on a land, or from releasing a wire edge that was left behind from a machining operation.

My apologies if I’m lingering on the point…it’s just interesting to me. But whatever the reason or reasons, the results are what matter and I’m delighted to see you reach a successful outcome.


If the rotation of the drill is kept the same (i.e. clockwise), the scrubbing action is biased to one side of the lands on both the pull and the push stroke.

I welcome all comments as we understand that we are here to learn from each other and share our experiences.

I may be wrong in my understanding about how the barrel got fixed, it doesn't matter.

The thing that matters is that my knowledge improves listing to experienced airgun users here.

Our discussion, sharing, agreeing and disagreement all is important.

However I have been playing with airguns for last 40 years. As the barrel was in my hands before and after polishing, I believe that there was no lead or other kind of particle.

In fact although I didn't find any such thing like lead or wire particle even at the early stages a few months ago, I gave the barrel a reasonable polish a few months ago that would definitely remove any kind of lead etc.

Yesterday's episode of polishing the barrel was much aggressive than a routine polish that a new barrel or fouled with lead barrel would need.

Further this a bad barrel from the day one. All routine efforts like re finishing the lead, re crowning and reasonable polishing had already been done.

When all else failed, I did this aggressive polish just before throwing it away as I too was under the impression that such aggressive polish will ruin the barrel but as the barrel was already bad, I had nothing to lose.

So I opted it.

I am happy that for whatever reason, the barrel is shooting well

Bhaur

 

[TheShooter (aka Seeker)]

There’s an element of truth to that oft-repeated statement, but I think it misleads us to think airgun barrels are soft and fragile. Over time I have very gradually experimented with ever more aggressive bore prep methods. In the early going, it was J-B on felts or cotton patches. While more recently it’s a 180 grit slurry on a cast lap, and it has given me an appreciation for how much intense scrubbing it takes to clear even the most subtle restriction or defect. I can’t even wrap my head around how much scrubbing it would take with J-B to reshape an irregular land or alter the bore dimensions by even a ten-thousandth of an inch (0.0001” or 0.000004mm).

As such, I think the improvement came from removing a spot of leading (per Joe’s comments) trapped at the leade or perhaps on a land, or from releasing a wire edge that was left behind from a machining operation.

My apologies if I’m lingering on the point…it’s just interesting to me. But whatever the reason or reasons, the results are what matter and I’m delighted to see you reach a successful outcome.


If the rotation of the drill is kept the same (i.e. clockwise), the scrubbing action is biased to one side of the lands on both the pull and the push stroke.

That is true. The polishing mop should follow the rifling.

 

[boscoebrea]

"A drop of water over time," is the most important thing to remember.

 

[mubhaur]

"A drop of water over time," is the most important thing to remember.

Did some more polishing with 250 grit this time and later with JB again.

Things are still improving as compared to before.

What I have found is that after the previous polish the barrel maintained accuracy for quite a reasonable time but then deteriorated a bit.

But still it's not that bad.

A simple cleaning of barrel didn't bring the accuracy to initial level.

Looks like that there must be still some rough spots inside that would be catching lead or whatever.

250 grit polishing again sorted it out.

 

[TheShooter (aka Seeker)]

250 is quite rough.

 

[mubhaur]

250 is quite rough.

Yes gradually increased to 2000 and then JB