Seeking help with accuracy problem
- Thread starter DaSOB
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Maybe it's time to upgrade. I'm looking at your groups so far... if it was me, $300ish for a HW30/Beeman R7.
Life's too short NOT to experience the joys of a quality springer.
Accurate backyard plinking on the O of a coke can all day long vs chasing POI shift/fliers
Then again maybe that Walther Talon Magnum is part of your journey of 1000 steps.
Life's too short NOT to experience the joys of a quality springer.
Accurate backyard plinking on the O of a coke can all day long vs chasing POI shift/fliers
Then again maybe that Walther Talon Magnum is part of your journey of 1000 steps.
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Well you buy , you try, and hope it dont make you cry...
You mount it up then go shoot . It will hold up well or spit her bits.. scopes on springers are a dice roll.
Lot of guys like and use ugt stuff. If its somthing you may like all you can do is go for it..
You mount it up then go shoot . It will hold up well or spit her bits.. scopes on springers are a dice roll.
Lot of guys like and use ugt stuff. If its somthing you may like all you can do is go for it..
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I have aspirations of a nice PCP, maybe someday I'll be able to come up with the $$$. Might look at that HW30 in the interim, although I'm kind of partial to .22.
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It's been a fun and educational day thanks to all the great advice I got from y'all. I was stunned when I ran that first patch through my rifle and it came out loaded with black crud. Looked like the kind of stuff I get out of my BP rifles after I've been using Holy Black in them. Doesn't take long for accuracy to deteriorate when that BP fouling builds up, so apparently the black crud in my Walther was having the same effect. I scrubbed the bore with Patch Out, which I highly recommend, and patch after patch came out dirty. But after I got the bore clean, well, you can see how my groups pulled together. Next step will be polishing the bore.
And I learned that a big part of my accuracy problem was the Walther beating the bejeezus out of the scopes and red dot I was using. I had tried a Gamo scope, but it's obviously not designed for magnum springers. Neither were the Bushnell and some others I tried. Same-same with the red dot - it would probably do OK on a CO2 rifle or a Ruger 10/22, but the kind of abuse that it was getting on my rifle was just addling its little innards.
I have a spare scope for my State Arms .50 BMG, a CVLife 6-24x50 AO, that would handle the Walther's double whammy. .50's have the same double recoil as do magnum springers - first the recoil from firing the weapon, then the second, reverse recoil when the compensator (which you HAVE to have) does its thing (NEVER stand to the side of someone shooting a .50!). I may put it on my Walther temporarily just for G 'n' G's, and to check out the rifle's true accuracy. The scope is a Hubble, but I can dial the parallax down to 30 yards which will work just fine. Later I'll spring for a nice UTG.
It's really great to discover that I don't have a dud rifle, just that it needed some TLC and the right pellets. It loves the JSB 18.13 gr. Diabolo pellets, and fortunately I have a 500 round tin of them.
Thanks again, all! I'll post more after I put the CVLife scope on the rifle and shoot some groups.
And I learned that a big part of my accuracy problem was the Walther beating the bejeezus out of the scopes and red dot I was using. I had tried a Gamo scope, but it's obviously not designed for magnum springers. Neither were the Bushnell and some others I tried. Same-same with the red dot - it would probably do OK on a CO2 rifle or a Ruger 10/22, but the kind of abuse that it was getting on my rifle was just addling its little innards.
I have a spare scope for my State Arms .50 BMG, a CVLife 6-24x50 AO, that would handle the Walther's double whammy. .50's have the same double recoil as do magnum springers - first the recoil from firing the weapon, then the second, reverse recoil when the compensator (which you HAVE to have) does its thing (NEVER stand to the side of someone shooting a .50!). I may put it on my Walther temporarily just for G 'n' G's, and to check out the rifle's true accuracy. The scope is a Hubble, but I can dial the parallax down to 30 yards which will work just fine. Later I'll spring for a nice UTG.
It's really great to discover that I don't have a dud rifle, just that it needed some TLC and the right pellets. It loves the JSB 18.13 gr. Diabolo pellets, and fortunately I have a 500 round tin of them.
Thanks again, all! I'll post more after I put the CVLife scope on the rifle and shoot some groups.
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Umarex Notos : 250 for the gun and 50 for a hand pump and you’ll be in 7th heaven (and the PCP rabbit hole!
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If you got your heart set on that Walther. Maybe shoot open sight...
or get a cheap green laser and combine it with one of your scopes. Even if the scope is not springer rated...you can still use the scope to see the laser. Depending on the power of your scope, that combination should get you beyond 30 yards (using the laser as the primary aiming point. Make sure you loctite the laser mount screws. ).
The other option if you are handy is to modify a cheap China zero recoil scope mount.
Edit: Maybe on a good day that laser/ scope combo might get you to 50 yards...beyond that most cheap laser spread out too much to be of use. The other issues/weakness in this laser sight system is the vertical and windage adjustment set screws. They may come out of adjustment with recoil. Witness mark, locktite are possible solutions. Last issue is that in bright daylight, it might be hard to see that laser dot.
Good luck. let us know how it went.
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Thanks for the suggestion on the laser. I ordered a Solofish SL-1107. I'm pretty decent with open sights, but my 72 year old eyes need help nowadays!
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I have one of those springers, though a .177,it is ok for the price, always try to use one-piece mounts on springers, UTG scopes work.
I shoot 25yds and get ok groups,truth be told I do not shoot it much because I have better springers.
Let us admit it , accurate guns are fun, but chasing accuracy is not....
I would keep trying to get the springers to shoot better and at the same time you are learning how to do it.....that way you will be able to
tell if you really want to upgrade,,,
PCP vs. Springer...the way I see it is the springer will bring out the best in YOU or the Worse
...plus you have many good firearms.
A favorite song,"Yield not to Temptation"
I shoot 25yds and get ok groups,truth be told I do not shoot it much because I have better springers.
Let us admit it , accurate guns are fun, but chasing accuracy is not....
I would keep trying to get the springers to shoot better and at the same time you are learning how to do it.....that way you will be able to
tell if you really want to upgrade,,,
PCP vs. Springer...the way I see it is the springer will bring out the best in YOU or the Worse
...plus you have many good firearms.A favorite song,"Yield not to Temptation"
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Truth be told, I don't have anyplace to shoot where a PCP could really strut its stuff. I shoot in my back yard, 15-20 yards max, usually at soft drink cans, used up aerosol cans, or just paper targets. I could do open sights all day, I just want a scope because I'm OCD about tight groups. There are some videos on YouTube by a guy with a Leshiy that has all the trimmings, where he nails tree rats with head shots at some considerable distance. But we are talking about a Leshiy, which is out of my price range (dang it!!). The Walther and my Benjamin Nitro are quite adequate for my plinking.
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OK, here's the plan - I ordered a Solofish SL-1107 low-profile laser and a barrel mount Pic rail. If I would mount the laser on the rifle's Pic rail, it wouldn't clear the irons and wouldn't fit under the scope unless I would use some really high scope mounts. So I opted for an underslung mounting on the barrel, which has the added advantage that the laser will stay aligned with the barrel even if it is a skosh off from the receiver one way or the other.
I have two or three scopes that I can use with this rig since I'll be sighting with the laser and just using the scopes to help me see it.
I have two or three scopes that I can use with this rig since I'll be sighting with the laser and just using the scopes to help me see it.
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OK, today's update - I pulled out a BSA Air Rifle scope that I had tried back before I scrubbed out my bore. I hadn't gotten any better groups with it than I had with anything else. Shot the below groups - I'm pleased! I may have pulled a couple of the shots and there is some breeze, but there is a three-fer on the top target that is "minute of squirrel noggin". I'm moved the windage over to the left a few clicks and shot the second group. I'm definitely going to polish the barrel and see if the groups improve any.
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There ya go 
Keep on shooting and things start whipping in to shape
. Kinda a rome was not built in a day
Keep on shooting and things start whipping in to shape
. Kinda a rome was not built in a dayUpvote 0
Every rifle, even refurbs, takes time to break in and settle down. Same with scrubbing out a barrel. Takes some pellets to lead it back in.
Just keep shooting, have fun and enjoy the rifle
p.s. - I won't argue better quality rifles, I own a few, but I also have just as much fun with the ones I also own that were half or less the price. It was my money, I spent it the way I wanted, not because someone else said I should...lol
Just keep shooting, have fun and enjoy the rifle
p.s. - I won't argue better quality rifles, I own a few, but I also have just as much fun with the ones I also own that were half or less the price. It was my money, I spent it the way I wanted, not because someone else said I should...lol
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Sometimes them "lesser" guns you try to make it or get the best out of aint as boring as a near perfect upscale guns. Tune, tinker ,adjust , troubleshoot can give more satisfaction then more perfect.. especially when you get it right in the end.Every rifle, even refurbs, takes time to break in and settle down. Same with scrubbing out a barrel. Takes some pellets to lead it back in.
Just keep shooting, have fun and enjoy the rifle
p.s. - I won't argue better quality rifles, I own a few, but I also have just as much fun with the ones I also own that were half or less the price. It was my money, I spent it the way I wanted, not because someone else said I should...lol
Like make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
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I played around with some different pellets today. It's a tad breezy so that factors in. I polished the barrel following instructions I found on YouTube, but I don't see that that made a great deal of difference.
Anyway, here's today's test targets. For the first three, I used the same target and just blotted out the hits in each prior group. On the last one, I shot 5 rounds (yellow circles), adjusted windage a few clicks right, and shot 5 more (green diamonds). Dang if it don't look kinda like the rifle prefers the Benjamin pellets. I have some vertical stringing, which with rifles generally means you have a bedding problem. I don't know that such would apply to a springer, but I'm open to any input on that.
I'm going to hand pick and weigh some of the Benjamin pellets (gonna do the bench rest thing!) and gather up some that are as close to identical and perfectly shaped as possible. Then I'll shoot groups with them and evaluate a bit more.
Anyway, here's today's test targets. For the first three, I used the same target and just blotted out the hits in each prior group. On the last one, I shot 5 rounds (yellow circles), adjusted windage a few clicks right, and shot 5 more (green diamonds). Dang if it don't look kinda like the rifle prefers the Benjamin pellets. I have some vertical stringing, which with rifles generally means you have a bedding problem. I don't know that such would apply to a springer, but I'm open to any input on that.
I'm going to hand pick and weigh some of the Benjamin pellets (gonna do the bench rest thing!) and gather up some that are as close to identical and perfectly shaped as possible. Then I'll shoot groups with them and evaluate a bit more.
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You're correct. Getting an apparent beater and working on it until you have a tack driver is immensely satisfying. I've got a beautiful little M1916 Spanish Mauser Carbine in 7x57 that was keyholing and scattering shots all over creation when I first got it. I've dinked around with it a lot, slugged the bore and found that the grooves are .287" instead of the proper .284", schmutzed the barrel and action over an oil flame and worked on the bedding until I can slide a dollar bill under the barrel all the way down. I handloaded some rounds with .287" bullets and that stopped the keyholing, but the bedding work is ongoing. That's been one of my most fun projects.
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Assuming that you already found the "ideal" pellet (looks like the JSB jumbo heavy Diablo, prior to you polishing the barrel...hmm) and all the screws are tight, vertical stringing in springers in my experience is generally how you are holding the gun and your trigger pull. This is my theory on vertical stringing (yet to be proven with super slow motion) imagine the gun double recoiling and your shoulder and trigger finger moves back in reaction and/or anticipation to the 2nd backward recoil...this translates into up and down movement at the tip of your barrel... hence vertical POI stringing on your paper.
In general, try resting the gun on your hand. In my experience (for me), resting the gun on a bean bag, sand bag, pillow, towels, memory foam does not get rid of these vertical stringing.
One way to diagnose or rule that in or out, you need to chrono the gun. If the gun is inconsistent (there is a velocity spread of 30 to 100 + fps) that might be the reason for the vertical stringing. If you don't have a chrono, try the tissue test. Not ideal but might point to a inconsistent seal problem.
Or it's a combination of both.
BTW are those an inch square on your target paper?
Would be interesting to see a group for the JSB jumbo heavy Diablo after you polished the barrel.
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Yep, those are one inch squares. That's a template I downloaded from MyTargets.com.
I've been using a beanbag rest - I'll try the artillery hold using my hand to see how that works out. I'm pretty sure I'm getting a consistent trigger pull - I've conditioned myself not to flinch by just imaging there not being any recoil, and letting the "break" be a surprise. Kind of a self-hypnosis thing I taught myself.
I'll set up the chrono first chance I get - didn't feel like going through all that today, but I'll do it. The rifle did sit through a flood in 2016 - I had four feet of water in the house and my entire collection of firearms got a two-day soaking. Possibility that there are some issues relating to that.
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