RAW 1000x Chassis rifle

[drsquall]

Hello everyone!
First post for me here. I shoot nrl/prs rimfire local matches with my 22lr but am wanting to start doing it with PCP. I am looking at the h1000x for this because I'm left handed and I can get it left handed. I am wanting to shoot slugs and was looking at the 22cal for this. My question is will it get it done? Our local match usually has a stage that is pretty long range out to 353 this year so far. The rest range from 35 to 150yds. Is there enough accuracy and energy with the 22? Also, what kind of shot count before needing to fill back up.

Thanks
Jon

 

[rsfrid]

First of all, welcome. You should be able to learn much by searching the archives.

Second, and as to your question — don't set your sites too high (pun intended!) I have shot 22lr matches in past years, usually doing very well at 50' NRA indoors and 50yds outdoors. It is not the same beast with PCP 22 cal. Where I usually could shoot 50 or 100 consistently with Eley Match 22lr my RAW won't compete against 22lr. Don't get me wrong - you probably can't find a more consistent production (non custom built) PCP than a RAW, but 240s in N50 are a good norm to "shoot" for. 100 yards and more with 22 cal PCP competing against powder burners is expecting too much in my opinion. Those that shoot over 100 yards in competition do so with 25 cal or 30 cal.

As to shot count, my RAW with factory tune shoots 25 grain pellets at 946 muzzle velocity. I tend to get 35-40 good shots (sometimes more) before I am down to regulator pressure. Compare that to 1000fps or more with 22lr. I think purchasing a RAW is a good choice. Just don't think it will compete at 150 yards or more — not in 22 cal at least. Maybe 30 cal. But your shot count per charge will be lower.

This is how mine shoots at 25 yards indoors:

Then here is outdoors at 50 yards:

Keep in mind Wind has a greater affect on pellets and slugs from an air rifle than with 22lr. Good luck in finding your PCP.

 

[airgunner1042]

First of all, is the stock ambidextrous on the chassis stock? If so, I would suggest that you get the rifle in the RH set up. I say this, as I am also left handed. { left eye dominance }. With the RH set up, you never have to remove your finger off the trigger. You can then cock and load with the RH with ease, unless of course you use a mag.or single shot loader. { left side only } I personally load single shot by inserting the pellet into the breech with my fingers. The receiver is made with ample room to do this rather easily. Of course, this is only a suggestion from experience on my part. You need to do what is comfortable for you. I also shoot an FX Crown, Daystate Wolverine and FWB 800 FT the same way. All have ambidextrous stocks. The accuracy of the .22 RAW HM1000X you are looking at, is hard to beat shooting the JSB 25.39's tuned to 940 to 950 FPS from 25 to100 yds. You can expect to get 40 to 50 shots on a fill depending on tune speed If you get the rifle, first thing I would do, would be to poop Can that horrible moderator and get one from Martin at Airguns USA or Neil Clague in CA.
Good Luck!

 

[drsquall]

Well, thanks for the info and thats what I was afraid of. I'm not going to put over 2,000 into a setup and not be able to play and be somewhat competitive. I will do some research on the 30cal route but I will probably put the money on building a vudoo for 22. I prefer a true left handed action and in nrl you need a mag because most stages are 10-12 rounds with 60-120 second time limit. No single feeding

 

[drsquall]

I need to talk to Derrick@zx10wall about the vulcan 3 for nrl22.

 

[steve123]

I was competing in NRL22 from the beginning and saw the equipment and the sport advance. When the Vudoo's started showing up is when I started finishing down the roster more often but before that I would win quite a bit with my Anschutz 1827F 22rf.

So IMHO you're way better off with the Vudoo 22rf. The NRL22 sized targets are more appropriate for rimfire and get hard to hit with a airgun so hit ratios for airgun are often 1/2 to 2/3 what the top rimfire shooters can achieve. One reason why is "wind drift" which is 3 times more with pellets and noticeably more than 22rf even with slugs.

The other reason is the nice chassis systems available for Vudoo's which already have integral ARCA rails and weight attachments points are hard to beat from balance and weight perspective. You pretty much have to have a 20-ish pound Vudoo or other custom action with heavy barrel to be competitive which is the main reason I stopped shooting NRL22, well that among other reasons.

Also it's not uncommon for a Vudoo to put down close to 3/4 moa groups at 100Y whereas with an airgun that is tough to accomplish and actually 1.5 moa is more common.

 

[drsquall]

I was competing in NRL22 from the beginning and saw the equipment and the sport advance. When the Vudoo's started showing up is when I started finishing down the roster more often but before that I would win quite a bit with my Anschutz 1827F 22rf.

So IMHO you're way better off with the Vudoo 22rf. The NRL22 sized targets are more appropriate for rimfire and get hard to hit with a airgun so hit ratios for airgun are often 1/2 to 2/3 what the top rimfire shooters can achieve. One reason why is "wind drift" which is 3 times more with pellets and noticeably more than 22rf even with slugs.

The other reason is the nice chassis systems available for Vudoo's which already have integral ARCA rails and weight attachments points are hard to beat from balance and weight perspective. You pretty much have to have a 20-ish pound Vudoo or other custom action with heavy barrel to be competitive which is the main reason I stopped shooting NRL22, well that among other reasons.

Also it's not uncommon for a Vudoo to put down close to 3/4 moa groups at 100Y whereas with an airgun that is tough to accomplish and actually 1.5 moa is more common.

I totally agree about the vudoo and rimx taking over they game for sure. I am looking at a vudoo with Bartlein barrel in a foundation stock. Now if I want to spend 3500 for it. Just hard to swallow when I only shoot local matches. Thanks for the info.

Jon

 

[airgunner1042]

Can't go wrong with the Vudoo. It won the.22 NRA F-Class Nationals last year at Camp Atterbury Ind. I was shooting next to him.

 

[Renman]

First of all, welcome. You should be able to learn much by searching the archives.

Second, and as to your question — don't set your sites too high (pun intended!) I have shot 22lr matches in past years, usually doing very well at 50' NRA indoors and 50yds outdoors. It is not the same beast with PCP 22 cal. Where I usually could shoot 50 or 100 consistently with Eley Match 22lr my RAW won't compete against 22lr. Don't get me wrong - you probably can't find a more consistent production (non custom built) PCP than a RAW, but 240s in N50 are a good norm to "shoot" for. 100 yards and more with 22 cal PCP competing against powder burners is expecting too much in my opinion. Those that shoot over 100 yards in competition do so with 25 cal or 30 cal.

As to shot count, my RAW with factory tune shoots 25 grain pellets at 946 muzzle velocity. I tend to get 35-40 good shots (sometimes more) before I am down to regulator pressure. Compare that to 1000fps or more with 22lr. I think purchasing a RAW is a good choice. Just don't think it will compete at 150 yards or more — not in 22 cal at least. Maybe 30 cal. But your shot count per charge will be lower.

This is how mine shoots at 25 yards indoors:

View attachment 277662

Then here is outdoors at 50 yards:

View attachment 277663

Keep in mind Wind has a greater affect on pellets and slugs from an air rifle than with 22lr. Good luck in finding your PCP.

Rsfrid, I agree @ 25/ 50 yds I can hang w/ the pb’s. After that I doubt it. I never tried farther out. Imho air rifles , powerful springers until pcp’s where never meant or expected to shoot at past 50yds. I can shoot in the 240’s + with my 1000x @ 50 yds. w/ unsorted 18gr. Pellets. Off a front rest, no back bag.
renman

 

[zer0dev]

Rsfrid, I agree @ 25/ 50 yds I can hang w/ the pb’s. After that I doubt it. I never tried farther out. Imho air rifles , powerful springers until pcp’s where never meant or expected to shoot at past 50yds. I can shoot in the 240’s + with my 1000x @ 50 yds. w/ unsorted 18gr. Pellets. Off a front rest, no back bag.
renman

This post was 2 years old and not much of what was said is accurate today. Look around the forum for modern recommendations. There are plenty of us winning against rimfires.

 

[Renman]

This post was 2 years old and not much of what was said is accurate today. Look around the forum for modern recommendations. There are plenty of us winning against rimfires.

Yes, I agree, I was basically speaking for myself.i have shot .22 BR, we have a group at our club that shoot yr. Around. Was a bit serious for me although the BR guys are a nice bunch. They love to talk. at 76 I don’t shoot competively anymore except for flintlocks. I’ve been shooting air guns for 64+ yrs. i‘m a small game/ plinker I wanted a n American made rifle with good power,great accuracy ,the 1000x fits the bill.
kent

 

[steve123]

This post was 2 years old and not much of what was said is accurate today. Look around the forum for modern recommendations. There are plenty of us winning against rimfires.

Those .21 G1 BC Altaros 40 grainers are one game changer as well as an airgun primarily designed and more easily set up to the individual for PRS or NRL.

I found my Vulcan 3 25 cal using Altaros 60gr with BC of .245 to be a killer combo for the UFT matches I compete in. Previous to this discovery I almost HATED using pellets at this same match using my Thomas HPX, so much so I almost quit going. I used to get maybe 60% on a calm-ish day using pellets which was quite frustrating but sometimes now I'm up in the 90% + hit ratio using those slugs in the V3. Part of that is my V3 does close to MOA at 100Y fairly consistently and holds a zero well.

Though I doubt the V3 would excel at PRS or NRL because it's tall and rear heavy.

 

[Centercut]

Yep Steve, those Altaros Slugs are a great improvement in accuracy and BC over conventional slugs.

As far as Airguns competing against Rimfire, they have started to catch up but aren't quite there yet.

At the 2024 NRL22 nationals, the top airgun was 144/269. In 2023, it was significantly better with 28/228 and 54/228, but that was Matt Dubber and Justin Welch, neither of whom shot in 2024 since the PRS match at RMAC superseded the 2024 NRL22 National Match for most PRS airgun shooters. In fact, Matt Dubber won that event - and $20K. Justin came in 3rd - and $5K.

 

[Renman]

Yep Steve, those Altaros Slugs are a great improvement in accuracy and BC over conventional slugs.

As far as Airguns competing against Rimfire, they have started to catch up but aren't quite there yet.

At the 2024 NRL22 nationals, the top airgun was 144/269. In 2023, it was significantly better with 28/228 and 54/228, but that was Matt Dubber and Justin Welch, neither of whom shot in 2024 since the PRS match at RMAC superseded the 2024 NRL22 National Match for most PRS airgun shooters. In fact, Matt Dubber won that event - and $20K. Justin came in 3rd - and $5K.

Frankly,l doubt they’ll ever even up. A .22 is in the air a fraction of the time of an airgun slug or pellet……….airguns more effected by Atmospheric conditions . Scores continue to prove the point. For me, I have several of both, I usually choose AG because of the noise factor & less stuff to carry.
renman

 

[steve123]

Yep Steve, those Altaros Slugs are a great improvement in accuracy and BC over conventional slugs.

As far as Airguns competing against Rimfire, they have started to catch up but aren't quite there yet.

At the 2024 NRL22 nationals, the top airgun was 144/269. In 2023, it was significantly better with 28/228 and 54/228, but that was Matt Dubber and Justin Welch, neither of whom shot in 2024 since the PRS match at RMAC superseded the 2024 NRL22 National Match for most PRS airgun shooters. In fact, Matt Dubber won that event - and $20K. Justin came in 3rd - and $5K.

I'd love to see the top 5 22rf shooters in PRS or NRL on the same course going back to back using both the pcp with Altaros slugs, and then their 22rf's, just to see how the outcomes would be!

Pcp would be going 100-ish fps slower however the G1 BC with 40gr Altraos is .21 vs .16 for the 22rf.

But I agree the airguns are catching up but not quite there - yet. If they can duplicate that 1050-ish fps and have say a .25 BC, as long as the pcp is solid having no POI shifts, then it's time and game on.

From my end of it 22rf is more convenient but SD can be disappointing vs the airgun. If the gun isn't set up well for me as far as LOP, cheek height, 3-4 oz trigger, then I end up missing more. Of course in my case I don't have a AG or 22rf that balances well off a bag and obstacle. They're ok off a shooting sticks type unattached bipod but wouldn't be what I'd consider optimal for dynamic shooting in NRL/PRS.

I'd like one of these except modded a bit for balance as well as pushing forward with thumb conveniently.

Or a pcp much the same as far as how it cocks but I've been mentioning this ever since I've been on AN.

 

[Centercut]

I'd love to see the top 5 22rf shooters in PRS or NRL on the same course going back to back using both the pcp with Altaros slugs, and then their 22rf's, just to see how the outcomes would be!

Pcp would be going 100-ish fps slower however the G1 BC with 40gr Altraos is .21 vs .16 for the 22rf.

But I agree the airguns are catching up but not quite there - yet. If they can duplicate that 1050-ish fps and have say a .25 BC, as long as the pcp is solid having no POI shifts, then it's time and game on.

From my end of it 22rf is more convenient but SD can be disappointing vs the airgun. If the gun isn't set up well for me as far as LOP, cheek height, 3-4 oz trigger, then I end up missing more. Of course in my case I don't have a AG or 22rf that balances well off a bag and obstacle. They're ok off a shooting sticks type unattached bipod but wouldn't be what I'd consider optimal for dynamic shooting in NRL/PRS.

I'd like one of these except modded a bit for balance as well as pushing forward with thumb conveniently.

Or a pcp much the same as far as how it cocks but I've been mentioning this ever since I've been on AN.

That certainly would be an interesting event... Not sure the airguns "need" 1050-ish fps, or what the benefit is of that over 100 fps slower. Since ranges are a known value, I'm not sure the slightly "flatter" flight is any sort of significant advantage.

Its hard to say if the advantage at say the NRL-22 Nationals is all rimfire versus airgun, I'd think shooter skill definitely plays into the calculus for that. Matt Dubber, who is arguably the best PRS airgun shooter in the world, did very well at the NRL-22 Nationals in 2023 compared to the best rimfire shooters, and that was without his new purpose built .22 FX DRS slug gun. He did win 2024 RMAC PRS against some of the best rimfire shooters (and one World Rimfire Champion) that had shifted to airguns for the event.

 

[steve123]

That certainly would be an interesting event... Not sure the airguns "need" 1050-ish fps, or what the benefit is of that over 100 fps slower. Since ranges are a known value, I'm not sure the slightly "flatter" flight is any sort of significant advantage.

Its hard to say if the advantage at say the NRL-22 Nationals is all rimfire versus airgun, I'd think shooter skill definitely plays into the calculus for that. Matt Dubber, who is arguably the best PRS airgun shooter in the world, did very well at the NRL-22 Nationals in 2023 compared to the best rimfire shooters, and that was without his new purpose built .22 FX DRS slug gun. He did win 2024 RMAC PRS against some of the best rimfire shooters (and one World Rimfire Champion) that had shifted to airguns for the event.

I'm not sure either but I'm gaming a slight advantage for such an airgun and ammo since so far either the RF rifles, or likely more so that the most accomplished RF shooters abilities, seem to be at the peak. Like zerOdev mentioned the #1 guy only missed 12 shots for the entire nationals.

Maybe Matt or those other champions in rimfire will see this thread and chime in with their thoughts about our posts. If they did videos of 22rf vs pcp in PRS/NRL stages I'd think they'd get lots of interest.

A few years ago I wouldn't have thought pcp's would be this close already. A few more years and yikes a possible overtake, who knows.

 

[scotton]

Interestingly, the guy that came in second at the RMAC PRS event, Francis Colon, is a pro centerfire PRS shooter. He talked about the match on his podcast and said that he was impressed with the accuracy of the air rifle but was fighting with a POI shift during the match (I'm paraphrasing for him, probably poorly). I heard that and thought" Yeah, welcome to airgunning". The podcast is called "Miles to Matches", episode 128.

 

[steve123]

Interestingly, the guy that came in second at the RMAC PRS event, Francis Colon, is a pro centerfire PRS shooter. He talked about the match on his podcast and said that he was impressed with the accuracy of the air rifle but was fighting with a POI shift during the match (I'm paraphrasing for him, probably poorly). I heard that and thought" Yeah, welcome to airgunning". The podcast is called "Miles to Matches", episode 128.

Thanks for that info.

POI shift in AG's is my personal most despised downside concerning them. I agree = "welcome to air gunning". I'm hoping someone designs a super robust and overbuilt pcp ideal for these games that minimizes any shifting problem. I'll keep waiting.