Why isn't there an American version of Field Target?

Michael, have you participated in a 20 fpe limit FT event? It is not as easy as it looks.

Michael
The reason they have a 20 FPE limit is to protect the metal knockdown targets. They can't stand but so much energy hitting them without blasting them to smithereens ;-)
They are pretty expensive as they are. I imagine a target able to absorb say 100 FPE would be quite a bit more expensive.
Then with all that power, I guess there would be a bigger danger factor involved also?

Can't wait to see folks chime in. I'm off to work. See ya'll later

http://aafta.org/html/handbook/handbook_division_rules.html

Jimmy I spoke to Chris on the KZ for the Nationals this fall. When he asked me to make replacement face plates for his Gamo targets I asked what KZ sizes he wanted. He said the AAFTA states from .5" out to 2". He requested I make KZs from .5" to 1.5" as most were going to be used for the pistol range in Oct. I guess that I could make the targets to withstand higher fpe guns but it would require some re engineering to accommodate the thicker metal as well as hit paddles and springs to help them operate. The cost would be pretty steep too. Here are some of the new face plates I made for his replacements.... 

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

 Right, good targets cost between $65.00 and $85.00 and building something that would take full power large cal AND not have false "hit's" ( falling from hitting upper edge or anything but the paddle) would be VERY hard. Now if you want to just up it to 30fpe in .22 maybe? But even that would be a bit of an engineering feat.
Also at close range splatter back IS an issue even at 20 full fpe in .177 at 10 yards.

The way we (US) shoot FT is excellent for building shooter skill ( but please NO 2" KZ's) . I shot "20fpe" long enough to make the switch to "12pfe" for the fun of it. That again improved my7 shooting skill's, then, one day a friend brought his RWS 75 10M rig ( can you say 220 click's?) and did very well indeed. THAT made me go home and move my targets out to 110 yards with a sub 12fpe rig. THAT really improved my wind reading and other shooting skills.


Now a Target that Allowed "any power level" would never last, fall with the KZ hit, and, not fall on false hits. After shooting a HEAVY gauge .22rf gong at 85 yards with the RAW second gen. .357 even I was suppressed at how beat up it was in nothing flat.

Everyone should go to a match and shoot some sub 12fpe with no aides ( stixs, bipod,... ) and a duplex reticule. It will improve your everyday airgun shooting.


John

 "pea-shooter" LOL. I know exactly what you mean, I shot pre-charged airguns for 20 years before I got my first "tiny-bore" it was nearly an accident as my Squirrel hunting partner and I went to a Field Target match at the Good Ole Boys club in Pulaski TN "just to meet some other airgun folks". He had a .22 RWS48 with duplex reticule shooting 22-23fpe and I had a Bam51 tuned down to about the same, we just told Roz ( the match director) what we were shooting - didn't even know if we would be allowed to soot but...- and he said that was fine for today but if we wanted to take up FT in the future we would need to get something 20fpe or under. We were both instantly hooked.
Personally I would love to see a Steel Plinkers FT target ! Yes I would. There Quadrant target IS outstanding and I know many people who would enjoy having a higher power FT target at home.

The only "problem" ( and a problem is just another opportunity right?) I see is having to change rules for "extreme FT" - and I have seen, once, extreme FT- as there would be now way to shoot up close safely. But for a good time shooting from maybe 30 yards to 100 yards, well that would be a good time. Personally I do like the tissue paper test for a safety check. Hold or make a holder for several tissue paper sheet at various places even with the shooter and fire away , maybe I shouldn't mention it but in all honesty a .177 pellet weighing 10.5g fired at exactly 20fpe ( everyone is a touch under that in FT) pellet splatter WILL tear tissue at exactly 10 yards, at 11 yards it will not. Naturally you need to fire a good many shots, angle the plate etc... . The tissue paper may seem an extreme test to some but you must think of an occasional hemophilic, someone NOT wearing safety glasses (SHOULD be avoidable but maybe they are facing at an angle) catching the smallest shard in the eye,..... .
A quality FT target needs to be able to take over 600 hits in a day and last for years ( a Gamo target will not hold up to these standards though there are cheap enough to place one out occasionally, generally used w/out the troublesome "reducer" at 25 or more yards) if in competition, naturally some home users will never use one that much. Another problem is the cost of 60 plus targets for a points match. But hey it is a fun idea and just like the "Extreme Bench Rest" does NOT conform the "Bench Rest" rules it would be an excellent excuse to travel for those that can.

Also you are darn right about having a gaggle of rifles to shoot all aspects of "extreme benchrest" tho to shoot sanctioned BR one 12fpe or 20-30fpe rifle is enough.
On the extreme BR "I" am VERY happy to see a 200 yard slug only event has been added. THAT would interest me enough to figure out a rig for shooting just that and any other class my HPA regulated QB 78 would work well enough.

Darn, lot oh words.

John

John, the 2" target that I was referring to was for the FT pistol competition. Our club Tar Heel Airgun Club (THAGC) is sponsoring the AFTA National competition this year in Ennice NC. I was asked to make some replacement faceplates for one of our members who is an AFTA board member.

So no 2" targets for the rifle comps as far as I know...,.Hey, we could throw baseballs at ' em...lo

"spysir"

Now a Target that Allowed "any power level" would never last, fall with the KZ hit, and, not fall on false hits. 



John

Click to expand...

Never say never John!

" wish someone would start an American version of Field Target. Any caliber, any power level, targets out to 100 yards (or more). I’m mean Field Target is suppose to replicate real life hunting scenarios right?!."

While the power limitation is probably the main contributor to the power level shot in FT around Europe and Africa, FT in those continents is considered a "Finesse" discipline and Magnums and High Powered guns don't fit this particular concept, at 12 ft./lb. it is almost an art to pass that pellet cleanly through the kill zone given the size and distances used, specially if there is wind and the light conditions are not optimal. 

What brings more satisfaction to a shooter?:
A 3/8" kill zone at 14 yards, a 1.5" one at 55 yards or a 3" kill zone at 110 yards?
In reality it is the same challenge, nevertheless someone will argue that at 110 and 55 you have more wind variations than at 14 yards.

But when you use the same example as above in terms of different power levels, it becomes a very different story. 

What weapon would someone use for hunting?
A .50 cal Barrett 
B. .300 Win Magnum
C. 7 x 57 mm
D. .223
E. Compound Bow
F. Recurve Bow
G. Long Bow

The answer is that any of those weapons has the power to harvest any game that moves around this world...

I have read some hunters, specially from our US market stating that: "Who would use an "Obsolete" 7 x 57 MM caliber for hunting given its low power and not so flat trajectory?
My answer has always been the same, because that is all you need to hunt any game anywhere, and if it provides you pleasure shooting it, by all means do it!...The 7 x 57 mm is the caliber that has killed the most elephants in history, so it is plenty of caliber for any game around the planet.

I ended up hunting with a 55 # longbow and wooden arrows that I enjoy making...I liked it difficult, the challenge provided me more satisfaction and made me a better hunter...I harvested from elk and bear to pronghorn and deer. I only hunted trophies, and didn't hunt what I didn't eat. Shooting this bow provided me more pleasure than shooting any of my fine rifles...Nowadays I changed my bow for a camera...

Do you want to use a large caliber air gun in .22, .25, .30, 9 mm or even .50 cal? ...I believe that it will be fine if it pleases you...

I have shot FT at 12 ft./lb. and let me tell you that there is something "Magical" in shooting a low power.177 and knocking down those targets at both: 8 and 55 yards...

When I grew up, magnum airguns were those shooting a .177 pellet at above but around 600 - 650 fps. and we all hunted and had much fun with those guns...

I shoot my 20 ft./lb..177 FT gun at 50 yards at my home, when I hit the same target at 12 ft./lb, for some reason I feel more satisfaction with this level of power...Something like shooting pop cans at 25 yards with a rifle vs. a slingshot. 

The good thing is that anyone can start a FT club and set their own rules and limitations, where I live very unfortunately nobody is interested in target shooting of any kind because this area is hunting paradise (NW Montana), people shoot game and not targets. I need to travel 400 miles each way for being able to shoot FT and because of this, I really wish we had a club with whatever rules and power levels in this area .

Across the pond there are innumerable FT clubs...and because they all have the same international 12 ft./lb. rules, you can pretty much shoot anywhere...Shooting in England is as fun as it can get, those guys are the masters of FT and they really know how to have fun.

Regards,

AZ 

Extreme Bench Rest is typically American. Bench rest is to sedate. We need MORE! BIGGER! FASTER! BETTER! LETS MAKE IT UNLIMITED ! ! !

Extreme Field Target! Anything goes! Targets made from hardened 3/4 thick plate steel! Shoot at said plates of old battleship with helium breathing, 4,000 psi, .75 caliber pellet guns at ranges from 75 to 300 yards! Separate the men from the boys that will I tell ya!

Seriously?!? LOL!

Shooting a 20 fpe .177 cal pellet rifle zero'ed at 40 yards drops about 9" at 80 yards (Chairgun). A .30-06 zero'd at 100 yds drops about 8" at 250 yards (Federal Premium online ballistics calculator). How much power do you need?

It is the same challenge to shoot a Crossman Challenger at 6 fpe or a 150 fpe big bore. IMHO 20 fpe field target IS a close representation to the VAST amount of hunting done with airguns. Granted, modern PCP airguns in .25 and larger calibers are stretching the ranges at which pests and larger game are being taken but FT still (again, IMHO) is right there requiring and honing the exact same skill set.

Its not that FT "needs" a change, its just ALL airguns have changed, but the sport has not. 

Hunter FT is aiming in a similar direction, but could not go too far due to the target limitations. There are lots of people who buy high power pcp's to cover all their shooting needs, and being able to introduce them to the sport without telling them they need to buy a different, "low powered" rifle just to play would only be beneficial overall, IMO.

I like FT, but there are basically no clubs anywhere around. I can only imagine if it fit with what everyone shoots, it would gain more popularity.

I agree I feel it would make since to have a higher power FT for the US. Owning a low power airgun to simulate hunting situations in the US does not make as much since as actually simulating hunting in the US. It seems you should actually use the guns you hunt with and stretch the range a little more. As far as targets go I don't see that as an issue I have shot big bore hand guns in IHMSA competition you just match the target to the power. I can also see why FT as it is was created the way it was to mimic the airguns used over seas to their limited power restrictions. I don't think FT needs to change I just think we need our own game and rules after all football means 2 different here compared to over there.

I could see extreme US FT being longer range with target like deer & hogs having small red kill zones set out at further distance and having squirrels and rabbits set closer but nothing closer than say 50 yards. If you don't like the game make a new one. That seems to be what AOA did with extreme bench rest.

Mike

"Michael"Interesting perpectives. Speaking aloud... I just wish that I could my everyday .22, .25 air rifles to participate in field target.

I have often used a .22 for FT, just tune it down to 20fpe. Get good at shooting out to 55 at that power level - which will give a somewhat similar trajectory to the "12fpe" .177 class- then when/if you go back to whatever full power is you will discover it is SO much easier to make shots you might not have taken before.

John 

Click to expand...

"Michael"Interesting perpectives. Speaking aloud... I just wish that I could my everyday .22, .25 air rifles to participate in field target.

Click to expand...

THAT is a valid reason and I too was bummed I couldn't use my .25 Marauder in FT. I finally broke down and just bought a .177 Marauder to make into an inexpensive gun for Hunter Field Target competition. It IS kinda of a shame that there isn't a "One Size Fits All" gun but I have had to admit such is life.

"I agree I feel it would make since to have a higher power FT for the US. Owning a low power airgun to simulate hunting situations in the US does not make as much since as actually simulating hunting in the US."

There is a category for 24 Joules or 20 ft./lb....In the USA that energy/velocity is the HIGH POWER standard set for .177 in mostly all fine guns that are also capable of FT shooting...

If plenty of Super Magnum - Super High Velocity guns are really interested in FT, by all means start a club...All you need to do it to have targets and kill zones reinforced that will sustain the impact, and the kill areas can be scaled to whatever caliber and distances that you want to shoot...The only drawback is that assuming you make the targets very heavy so low and high powered guns will not damage them, you will have to consider that if the kill zone is too heavy it will not fall with medium-low powered guns...

Al alternative could be light weight - high tempered steel kill zones but don't take my word for it, I haven't experimented with this, it is just an idea...

Keep in mind that if you were shooting current rules and you shot a 9 mm gun to a 3/8" kill zone, you would need a perfectly aligned and concentric shot and even then the hole would probably shave some lead to the pellet... 

FT is a sport designed specifically for .177 caliber and for moderate velocities (12 ft./lb. in whatever pellet-velocity configuration you want to use). This is what is used for hunting everywhere in Europe and other countries in Africa and where there are restrictions with higher powered airguns...Nobody complains for lacking power, shooters and hunters accommodate to the rules, are happy, and do fine...

Here is the US everything is bigger, faster, more powerful....and that is OK too...But the sport (FT) was not invented in the US, for the US and neither for US high caliber and high powered hunting guns.

I believe that in this country we need to either accommodate to the International rules that suit the rest of the world, or invent our own US FT sport with whatever rules we deem appropriate, that will probably make many shooters happy here in the USA.


Regards,

AZ

I will echo the thoughts of spysir and azuaro. Having recently gotten into Hunter Field Target shooting with an Air Arms s500 it is great sport due to the lower power ratings and the ability of the wind to move a pellet a significant amount at sub 20fpe. That is the challenge. Target durability aside the work and skill to accurately dope the wind at lower velocities is addicting. I can shoot my gun at 19.99 FPE in these matches but the reality is that it is much more accurate at around 790-800fps. Having got a taste of it the allure of stepping into the sub 12fpe class of WFTF is intriguing to me at this stage but will hone my skills In HFT first because those WFTF guys are so damn good it is amazing. I shoot with National and World champs and I doubt most of us couldn't outshoot them using 60 FPE guns when you dope 1/4" and they are doping 6". They are that good. 

Its not not about the power, it's about the challenge. 

Its not not about the power, it's about the challenge

I agree, but the other half of the equation is the fun of competing in the same circumstances and with the same gun as you hunt with, which is also what Michael expressed. 
It is just Michael's misfortune that FT which grew out of exactly those parameters but with 12 fpe guns does not easily scale to 25 and .357 caliber airguns which we now use here in the US to hunt. The targets would be either destroyed in short order or be prohibitively heavy/expensive. 

Shooting rimfire silhouette matches is still an option though. There is a challenge there and the targets can take the pounding.

The challenge is all relative though. 

Stretch these 60-70fpe guns out past 100 yards and the challenge starts to equal what 12fpe guns face at shorter ranges. 

The difference is the 60+fpe guns are whats popular. Virtually no one here in the states is interested in buying a 12fpe rifle. Heck, its probably hard to sell a 20fpe one. It would likely be a great way to get more involved in FT, which would lead to more clubs. Which would lead to my wife and I having a club to attend.. 

Plus, people who found that they really enjoyed it, could then have the option of buying a dedicated FT rifle and joining in on the low powered typical FT.