Why I started using a desiccant filter, and why you should too.

Up until recently, I had been content using a homemade air dryer to dry my first-stage air before it went into my Shoebox F10 booster pump, and then again between the Shoebox and the SCBA tank. My air dryer is a bucket of ice/water with the air lines under water, and a bleed valve incorporated at the low points to drain the moisture every once in a while. I recently decided to do some studying and learn more about how pressure affects relative humidity and dew points, and it opened my eyes to the fact that my setup was inadequate. I was concerned about the effect colder temps might have on my air rifles' performance because I do a lot more cold weather hunting now. I was casing my guns before bringing them back inside from the cold to prevent external condensation, and wondered if internal condensation was occuring. Turns out it was.

Compressing air not only increases the temperature of the air, but also the dew point and relative humidity. As the pressure increases, the air can no longer hold the same amount of water, and the amount of water over that limit condenses into a liquid. Some people mistakenly believe that compression "creates" moisture. It does not. It simply lowers the capacity of the air to hold water as a vapor, and some of the water must condense into a liquid. When our air comes out of our compressors, headed towards our rifles or tanks, it is ALWAYS going to be at 100 % relative humidity. As it starts to cool down, it immediately begins to condense water. The bigger the temperature drop, the more water will condense, and the biggest part of the temperature drop will happen in your SCBA tank or your rifle's tank.

So, why desiccant and not bleed valves, cotton filters, or refrigerated dryers (like mine)? It's about limitations. My system only lowered the dew point of my compressed air to around 35 degrees because that was the temp of the water I was cooling the air with. As long as I stored my tank, and only used my rifles above 35 degrees, I was good. The moisture left in the air remained a vapor. But if I went hunting at temps below that, liquid moisture was forming inside my rifles' tanks. If you have been relying on that cotton filter on the output of a Yong Heng, then your equipment is only protected against liquid water inside it as long as it remains at or above the temp it was filled at. Desiccant, on the other hand, doesn't rely on condensation to remove moisture from the air. Two primary factors control how much moisture desiccant removes. One is relative humidity. The higher the relative humidity, the more water it can adsorb from the air. Remember, our air is coming out of the compressor saturated, at 100% relative humidity, so this works in our favor. The second controlling factor is temperature. Silica gel desiccant quickly loses its ability to remove moisture from the air at around 90 degrees and higher. This means that heat of compression is working against us, and we may need to cool the air off a little before it gets to the desiccant. 

How much of a difference does it make? A lot. If I used the desiccant between my shop compressor and the Shoebox, which is 100 PSI, it will drop the dew point to around -40 degrees. It's even lower when used at the output of the Shoebox, but I couldn't find a calculator that would accept 4500 PSI as an input, so I don't know the exact number. What about molecular sieve, you ask? Well, it removes moisture even better than silica gel desiccant, especially at temps above 100 degrees and at lower relative humidity. The drawbacks are molecular sieve is more expensive and it's takes a lot higher temp to dry it back out for re-use.

So in summary, there is no other method available to us airgunners that will provide condensation-free air at home, other than post-compression desiccant filtration. For those of you that already use it, I hope this helped you understand why it's better. For those of you that don't use desiccant, I hope this helps you understand why you should. 

Shoot straight, speak the truth, and be kind to one another!

James
 
Do most air tanks have a draw tube that takes air from the bottom of the tank to the valve, or does the air come from the base of the valve.

The reason I ask would putting the air tank in the refrig to lower the temp to 33F to condense some of the water in the tank. Then you can vent some air out to expel the water. That would lower the dew point for the tank's air to 33F. Good enough for many.
 
So in summary, there is no other method available to us airgunners that will provide condensation-free air at home, other than post-compression desiccant filtration. For those of you that already use it, I hope this helped you understand why it's better. For those of you that don't use desiccant, I hope this helps you understand why you should.

Thank you for taking the time to make this post. With the utmost respect, I disagree with the above, on the caveat that it depends highly on the type of compressor and if there are adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower. In the case of the LC-110 which I own and in the case of a fill environment that is 55% or higher in relative humidity I do not have cases of moisture even when shooting in below freezing temperatures. Owners of the LC-110/MC-3 have also installed Coltri or Tuxing Gold filters with the indicator beads/strips and random sampling of such posts indicate no change in color even after six months of use. This to me suggests that the condensate tower and cooling lines are working as designed.

That said, I hope the above is read in a tone of respect and friendly discussion as we compare and constrast different points across different compressor systems with various moisture removal systems.

I think the only exception is mtnGhost who is pumping outside in the PacWest off a generator in fog (wish I saved that picture, it's amazing), LOL. :)
 
Do most air tanks have a draw tube that takes air from the bottom of the tank to the valve, or does the air come from the base of the valve.

The reason I ask would putting the air tank in the refrig to lower the temp to 33F to condense some of the water in the tank. Then you can vent some air out to expel the water. That would lower the dew point for the tank's air to 33F. Good enough for many.

All the tank valves I've seen had no draw tube, or one that was only a couple of inches long, so I don't think it would work for everybody even if you turn the tank upside down. If it does work for you, then yes, it would be good enough if you don't go out shooting in freezing cold temps. 

James
 
So in summary, there is no other method available to us airgunners that will provide condensation-free air at home, other than post-compression desiccant filtration. For those of you that already use it, I hope this helped you understand why it's better. For those of you that don't use desiccant, I hope this helps you understand why you should.

Thank you for taking the time to make this post. With the utmost respect, I disagree with the above, on the caveat that it depends highly on the type of compressor and if there are adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower. In the case of the LC-110 which I own and in the case of a fill environment that is 55% or higher in relative humidity I do not have cases of moisture even when shooting in below freezing temperatures. Owners of the LC-110/MC-3 have also installed Coltri or Tuxing Gold filters with the indicator beads/strips and random sampling of such posts indicate no change in color even after six months of use. This to me suggests that the condensate tower and cooling lines are working as designed.

That said, I hope the above is read in a tone of respect and friendly discussion as we compare and constrast different points across different compressor systems with various moisture removal systems.

I think the only exception is mtnGhost who is pumping outside in the PacWest off a generator in fog (wish I saved that picture, it's amazing), LOL. :)

You are always welcome to disagree with me, LMNOP! Up until recently, I would have agreed with you. It was very late last night when I typed that summary, and I should have stated that there is no other method available to us airgunners that will provide condensation-free air AT TEMPS BELOW FREEZING. I'm not yelling with the all caps, that's to show what I should have added. Most of us are not going to be shooting at temps that low. However, and this is important, if your air goes from your compressor to a tank without passing through a desiccant, it is at 100% relative humidity, and any further cooling inside the tank will result in internal condensation. On the plus side, we are talking about very, very small amounts of water. On a top off from 3000 to 4500 PSI, that additional air starts out with around half an ounce or less of water. 18 grams at 77 degrees and 100% relative humidity. (I'm looking at you, mtnGhost!) If you're good about blowing off the condensate, and cooling your high pressure air, you'll be left with less than 1 gram of water going in as water vapor. Like I said, very small amounts of water. If your tank and air inside it are at 68 degrees, it can only hold 0.06 grams of water vapor per cubic meter, so most of that very small amount of water vapor is going to condense inside your tank or rifle. Further drops in temp, such as when I take my rifles out hunting in freezing weather, will cause further condensation. Yes, very small amounts, but I'm concerned about the cumulative effects over time.

Go to any website of commercial air compressor manufacturer, and look into air dryers. Refrigerated air dryers can only lower the dew point to around 41 degrees. If an industrial process requires lower dew points than that, then the only solution is desiccant dryers. This has been a very educational journey for me. Again, I want to emphasize this is a bigger problem for those that shoot in very cold weather. Plus, this post was about making informed decisions. Thanks for your input and discussion. I plan on touching bases with some people that have other types of compressors, and will share the info I collect in a later post.

James
 
Thanks for the post James. Lot of info in one place. Can I bookmark it and call it definitive? I'm glad I went with desiccant.

With the utmost respect with the intention of healthy friendly debate and general ribbing:

What'd we define -- ideal gas law and probability of moisture incursion through entropy exchange at temperature differential, assuming gasses behave ideally? :)

I'm pleased that you're happy with your decision of additional filtration; do you have evidence of efficacy of moisture collection? :)


 
Thanks for the post James. Lot of info in one place. Can I bookmark it and call it definitive? I'm glad I went with desiccant.

With the utmost respect with the intention of healthy friendly debate and general ribbing:

What'd we define -- ideal gas law and probability of moisture incursion through entropy exchange at temperature differential, assuming gasses behave ideally? :)

I'm pleased that you're happy with your decision of additional filtration; do you have evidence of efficacy of moisture collection? :)


James took the time and effort to write the above post to help folks like me avoid moisture contamination of the air cylinder on our PCP air rifles. His narrative was clear and concise and provided more information in one sitting than I have found elsewhere. It was James who provided the definition. Here you have simply stated the probability of moisture followed by a question mark. You clearly disagreed with James on this point. That "adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower" obviate the need for a desiccant filter. And if I and others do not have at our disposal "adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower" what then? If you would be willing to write a "definitive" guide to this particular subject I would be willing to read it. Seriously.
 
James took the time and effort to write the above post to help folks like me avoid moisture contamination of the air cylinder on our PCP air rifles. His narrative was clear and concise and provided more information in one sitting than I have found elsewhere. It was James who provided the definition. Here you have simply stated the probability of moisture followed by a question mark. You clearly disagreed with James on this point.

James has made an exceptional post with factual information and helpful data, I do not disagree there. My point (and clearly my failed attempt at humor) was that the information presented is accurate and is a description of physics.

That "adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower" obviate the need for a desiccant filter. And if I and others do not have at our disposal "adequate cooling lines and a condensate tower" what then? If you would be willing to write a "definitive" guide to this particular subject I would be willing to read it. Seriously.

I believe any solution will depend highly on the compressor type itself. For the LC-110 users, as I previously mentioned, the additional filter medium after extended periods does not indicate moisture and correlates to the existing moisture filtration systems working correctly. Since any solution will depend on the compressor type itself there isn't a comprehensive guide. Some systems may "require" a chiller, a PMV and filter, etc.

One data point to consider is there sure are a lot of folks with hand pumps who are compressing similar volumes of air into their rifles as direct fill systems and there have been no reports of failure related to moisture? Additionally those hand-pump systems only use a dessicant on the input at locale elevation atmospheric pressure.

While I agree with all points made, including yours, I feel as if someone somewhere authortatively cited that moisture damages guns and we seem to be lacking emperical data or evidence that suggests this is the case. A prime example would be hand pump users direct filling air guns.

LennyK, part #12 is what I am referring to as the condensate tower:

1583766372_14592801185e665b64b77567.23365741.png



 
By filling my buddy bottle to 4500 psi I have literally made an explosive device in my second bedroom. I investigated this thread hoping to learn best practices for safe handling and as the OP title suggests, keep moisture out of my guns. Here we have two opposing points of view regarding efficacy of said desiccant filter. Even while Tom of Shoebox states in his FAQ page: " You can put a water trap between the shop compressor and the ShoeBox compressor if that’s a concern." I'm currently using a desiccant filter after the Shoebox as it connects to my buddy bottle. I'd purchased the gold filter intending to buy a Yong Heng but decided to buy the Shoebox instead. I bought the it new and haven't had it very long. Certainly not long enough to check for moisture in the filter. I'm inclined to follow Tom's recommendation but if someone can provide educated advice as it applies to the Shoebox I'd really like to hear it.
 
By filling my buddy bottle to 4500 psi I have literally made an explosive device in my second bedroom.

Since you mentioned 4500 PSI all CF bottles I am aware of consist of an aluminum core that has been reinforced by CF. I do not believe water ingress into these bottles is a safety concern. Aluminum will develop an oxidization layer but it's not going to rust like you would see with an abused shop compressor. Additionally the hydro testing done pumps pressurized water into the CF bottle.

Hope this helps eliminate some concern over storage.
 
Aluminium doesn't rust in the presence of water or water vapor. However, throw a few drops of mercury in there and you're going to have catastrophic failure.

I think if it were me you've got the intrinsic water separation functionality by the stage 1 compressor, then the following lower-pressure line oil/moisture removal. On the high pressure side I would think a PMV and molecular sieve would work but I have limited to no experience with the efficacy of such systems.

I think the crux of the issue for me is -- how many of these Rube Goldberg cofigurations (this is not an insult, I am a tinkerer at heart) do we need to configure or create for the perception of a moisture ingress issue being damaging to the air rifles and/or air tanks? How much additional money should be spent due to the perception of a moisture ingress issue being damaging to the air rifles and/or air tanks?

We have a lot of data on how to remove water effectively from compressed air using various methods. What we don't have is any data that shows damage to air rifles using the stock compressor setups (with the exception being NO filtration which impacts oil removal as much as water removal).

Thanks for the healthy discussion and exchange of opinions, I'm eager to hear what Tom says. Thank you all and honestly, if my view is incorrect or wrong, I'm happy to be corrected and educated by friends especially those who are more knowledgeable than I.
 
Great information everyone. I've been worrying about moisture for a while. I have a Shoebox with a front end moisture filter, but nothing on the back end.

Since deciding to buy a filter I've entered analysis paralysis. I've found they run from $80 to $400. I'd don't like to go cheap on things at 4500psi, but $400 is a lot for something I've lived without so far.

Any recommendations would be really helpful. Thanks


 
Wow! I turn my back on ya'll for a day so I can get some work done at the office, and when I come back you're acting like a bunch of like-minded hobbyists who want to exchange information, opinions, and ideas in order to learn more about moisture removal and whether it even matters or not. 

Flintstone and LMNOP, I appreciate all of the dialog. As to the efficacy of moisture removal, are you asking about the efficacy of the method, or the end result on our air guns? After much research, I am convinced that desiccant dryers, whether silica gel or molecular sieve media, are quite effective at removing virtually all of the remaining post-compression water vapor when properly used. It's a very small amount of water, which is probably why many users see no indication of saturation even after several months of use. Furthermore, it is the method which countless manufacturing facilities use to produce dry air. There's no need to reinvent the wheel here, for me. As to the end result on our guns, a Google search will reveal some photographs and articles that show internal damage that was attributed to liquid moisture. Are they right? Unless I can come up with a reasonable alternative, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. In regard to the effect of moisture on aluminum. Yes, it has a thin layer of aluminum oxide that is corrosion resistant, but not corrosion-proof. One of the items required on carbon-fiber SCBA tank inspections is a check for internal corrosion of the aluminum cylinder, covering general corrosion, galvanic (in the area of the valve/tank interface), pitting, and line corrosion. If this is a concern for breathing tanks that are supposed to only be charged with dry breathing air, then I think it warrants our attention as well. Granted, there are various materials used in different airguns, including titanium, aluminum, steel, brass, and so on. 

I don't think we are all walking around with ticking time bombs if we don't use desiccant dryers. I just want us to be aware of the potential damage to our equipment, and make informed choices as to how we take care of it. In the end, I'll be happy if we all walk away from this a little bit smarter. Again, thanks for all the comments and discussion.

James
 
is a condesate tower filter the same as a coalescing filter ?

the kind with the drain at bottom and input at top, output around middle of tower ?

Lennyk,

No, they are not the same. A coalescer removes liquid aerosols, such as water and oil droplets, as well as solid particles from the air passing through it. A condensate tower condenses water vapor from the air and collects the liquid water at the bottom of the tank where it can be removed with a drain or bleed valve. Coalescers are typically used shortly before air tools and paint sprayers.

James
 
Great information everyone. I've been worrying about moisture for a while. I have a Shoebox with a front end moisture filter, but nothing on the back end.

Since deciding to buy a filter I've entered analysis paralysis. I've found they run from $80 to $400. I'd don't like to go cheap on things at 4500psi, but $400 is a lot for something I've lived without so far.

Any recommendations would be really helpful. Thanks


I went with the Tuxing gold filter, and desiccant for the media. Given your location's temps and the fact you have a Shoebox, you won't need molecular sieve. I really like my Shoebox. You have the F8 or F10? Mine is the F10. I can't say enough about how good it feels to be able to walk away and not worry about it. I had to stay with my Yong Heng and monitor the head temp, as well as be there to shut it off. I had to adjust the shut off pressure on my Shoebox. It came to me at around 3800 PSI. Now it pumps all the way up to 4500.

James