Why doesn't anyone make a non-magnum nitro piston gun?

Forums Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Vintage Why doesn't anyone make a non-magnum nitro piston gun?

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    Smaug
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    Heck, I’d even settle for high power (15 FPE) if they don’t make medium or low yet.

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    mrjohns
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    I thought the Benjamin NP2 was non magnum.

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    Bobbed06
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    What qualifies for “non” magnum? Both my Nitro pistons are Gen 1 versions

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    Smaug
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    “Bobbed06”What qualifies for “non” magnum? Both my Nitro pistons are Gen 1 versions

    
Does it shoot an 8.4 gr. pellet @ < 1000 fps? Ideal is around 900, I think. 

    Is it is it easy to shoot accurately and is it easy to cock? To me, that’s aha non-magnum means. 

     

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    Bobbed06
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    “Smaug”

    “Bobbed06”What qualifies for “non” magnum? Both my Nitro pistons are Gen 1 versions

    
Does it shoot an 8.4 gr. pellet @ < 1000 fps? Ideal is around 900, I think. 

    Is it is it easy to shoot accurately and is it easy to cock? To me, that’s aha non-magnum means. 

     

    
My 177 is around 900 FPS with a 10.5 Gr, its a bear to cock, and my 22 is around 675 FPS with a 14.3Gr and its not bad to cock due to the length of the barrell. I find them both accurate with the correct pellets but the craptastic Centerpoint scopes are gonna get replaced in short order.

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    Deja
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    Yea thats magnum. I wouldnt mind a well made hw30s typ rifle with a gas spring. Maybe bit more power but not much.

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    JoeWayneRhea
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    I think one of the selling points of the nitro piston is power . To me its kinda like downloading a 7 mag . Plus I honestly think a good springer is more repeatable shot to shot . I would be curious to see what a like 8 ft lb piston gun shot like . But I hate to admit it but when I hear nitro piston I kinda tune out . I always equate it to cheap inaccurate rifles …I know that’s not always the case though . Its just I can’t shoot one accurate. And believe me I have TRIED a lot !!

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    fuznut
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    THEOBEN   Gas piston  perfected!   Might find a used one, but it wont
    be cheep!!!

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    Bobbed06
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    I kinda think the Gas Ram thud sounds more precise than the twang of a springer. As of late I been shooting with my old trusty Ruger Blackhawk Elite pringer and must say that it is enjoyable to shoot. The twangy sound is odd to me, but its accurate and thats what matters.

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    DRose
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    Crosman made a TitanGP .177 that was low powered., Long gone though.

    Crosman TitanGP Nitro Piston (Lower Velocity) – Part 1


    Dave

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    Bobbed06
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    Overseas versions of the nitro piston have a bleed hole in the piston cylinder, I am sure if you spoke with someone overseas they would either swap you for a high power version or tell you the size of hole, and location to drill it. I have to say though, I am fairly impressed with my the NP1 Nitro versions as far as consistency and power levels go. You can always get heavier pellets to manage recoil, and FPS goals. The cocking effort would and overall recoil is ultimately dictated by barrel length, and recoil dampened best by heavier models. It seems any consistency issues I have had were resulting from crapola scopes.

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    Smaug
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    I think I’m going to eventually try a .22 nitro piston gun. Probably will settle for a Crosman ($200) and find a good aftermarket trigger, ($30) rather than spend near $1k for a fancy European one.

    I see that BSA makes an affordable gas piston gun. Maybe that’d be a step higher than Crosman, but not an RX2 class.

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    fuznut
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    Been there, done that, all in all it was a good education.
    You will learn a lot about advertising, u tube and forum opinions.

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    Bobbed06
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    “Smaug”I think I’m going to eventually try a .22 nitro piston gun. Probably will settle for a Crosman ($200) and find a good aftermarket trigger, ($30) rather than spend near $1k for a fancy European one.

    I see that BSA makes an affordable gas piston gun. Maybe that’d be a step higher than Crosman, but not an RX2 class.

    
I have a Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk 22 and once I did the bearing mod on the trigger and removed the extra tension spring , loctited everything and broke it in I really like it. I am currently waiting on a new scope for it since I feel it deserves better than the craptastic centerpoint 4×32. Its a heavy rifle so recoil is minimal, long barrel so cocking is easy and the heavy 22 pellets keep the FPS at accurate velocities.

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    Smaug
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    “Bobbed06”

    “Smaug”I think I’m going to eventually try a .22 nitro piston gun. Probably will settle for a Crosman ($200) and find a good aftermarket trigger, ($30) rather than spend near $1k for a fancy European one.

    I see that BSA makes an affordable gas piston gun. Maybe that’d be a step higher than Crosman, but not an RX2 class.

    
I have a Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk 22 and once I did the bearing mod on the trigger and removed the extra tension spring , loctited everything and broke it in I really like it. I am currently waiting on a new scope for it since I feel it deserves better than the craptastic centerpoint 4×32. Its a heavy rifle so recoil is minimal, long barrel so cocking is easy and the heavy 22 pellets keep the FPS at accurate velocities.

    
Does the trigger mod you did give it a crisp break? If not, look into aftermarket trigger assemblies. I put one (Charlie da Tuna) into my Stoeger X20, and it is a whole new gun. It’s not a light break, still maybe 4-5 lbs., but it is crisp and predictable, which made all the difference.

    You’re right about the scope. In my opinion, airguns, even 50 yard springers/gassers, need at least 9X to approach what they’re capable of doing.

    I’ve had good luck with the Leapers 3-12 and 4-16 scopes. They’re heavy, but they hold zero and they’re not too dear.

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    Smaug
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    “fuznut”Been there, done that, all in all it was a good education.
    You will learn a lot about advertising, u tube and forum opinions.

    
What’s your verdict then? Did your education tell you it’s better to skip it and go to a high dollar gun, or will a low dollar gun perform up to the level of the high dollar gun?

    What I’ve done so far was to replace the trigger in a Stoeger X20, which improved it 100%, but it still can’t quite do what my new TX200 can do after a couple hundred rounds. I’ve had as good as a 3/8″ group at 40 yards from the TX, with the typical being maybe 3/4″ I think the GUN will shoot 3/8″ every time, with the right pellet and no human error. But even in my hands, shooting 3/4″ in at 40 yards, I consider pretty good. The Stoeger shoots around an inch to 1.5″ every time. It’s more consistent, albeit at a larger group size than the worst group from the TX. Same caliber, power level, and pellets, too. (CPL, .177)

    So in the end, the sub-$200 Stoeger was a much better value than the TX200. But when it’s time to pass on the X20, I won’t have a ton of regret if it goes to a good guy.

    Vortek 12 FPE kit for the TX is in route now. That and a bit of trigger lightening should make it into the real tack-driver it was born to be.

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    TDK
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    The Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk is the reason I ended up with a Marauder and a HW30.  I found the nitro piston shot cycle to be the only slightly redeeming factor (and it was still too harsh due to high power level).  In the end, I found build quality to be the most important characteristic.

    Sometimes I wonder if I had started with a HW95 instead of the Crosman NVD, how long it would have taken me to get into PCPs?  Skip the low dollar guns, skip the disappointment.  A quality gun means you aren’t sitting there trying to polish a turd trigger or achieve unachievable ‘normal’ accuracy.

    I agree that a 12fpe nitro piston with a decent trigger would be a nice gun, but that fps won’t move many Crosman guns at the box stores!  It would have to be done by someone like Weihrauch.  I do wonder why Crosman can produce a reliable gas ram power plant in a $100-150 gun, but we haven’t seen that tech spread to a wider range of European guns.

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    Bobbed06
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    “Smaug”

    “Bobbed06”

    “Smaug”I think I’m going to eventually try a .22 nitro piston gun. Probably will settle for a Crosman ($200) and find a good aftermarket trigger, ($30) rather than spend near $1k for a fancy European one.

    I see that BSA makes an affordable gas piston gun. Maybe that’d be a step higher than Crosman, but not an RX2 class.

    
I have a Crosman Nitro Venom Dusk 22 and once I did the bearing mod on the trigger and removed the extra tension spring , loctited everything and broke it in I really like it. I am currently waiting on a new scope for it since I feel it deserves better than the craptastic centerpoint 4×32. Its a heavy rifle so recoil is minimal, long barrel so cocking is easy and the heavy 22 pellets keep the FPS at accurate velocities.

    
Does the trigger mod you did give it a crisp break? If not, look into aftermarket trigger assemblies. I put one (Charlie da Tuna) into my Stoeger X20, and it is a whole new gun. It’s not a light break, still maybe 4-5 lbs., but it is crisp and predictable, which made all the difference.

    You’re right about the scope. In my opinion, airguns, even 50 yard springers/gassers, need at least 9X to approach what they’re capable of doing.

    I’ve had good luck with the Leapers 3-12 and 4-16 scopes. They’re heavy, but they hold zero and they’re not too dear.

    
The trigger mod was very easy to do, and the break is crisp, and the pull is sub 3lb. Many Charlie Tuna trigger users preferred the bearing mod. I cant say for sure since I never tried that trigger. I am extremely happy with my trigger action now. This Nitro Venom is not overly powerful, I think its a 13 ft lb rifle, which I need for the particular varmints I got it for.

    I ordered a Hammers 3x9x40 AO scope and monoblock mount a couple of days ago. I am looking forward to having a decent scope on it, as I am very confident up to 35-40 yards with it as is. If I can make that range use easier with the new scope, I am a happy camper. I own 2 nitro pistons and a springer. they are all enjoyable for me to use.Let us know what you pick!

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    Smaug
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    Well guys, I think someone may have been listening.

    Have you seen the Diana 340? I think they added the ‘0’ to the nomenclature to denote it has the same power as a 34 (springer) but it is a gasser.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Diana_340_N_TEC_Classic_Air_Rifle/3509

    The reviews on this one are promising. The reviews on the higher-end Luxus model with the walnut stock are not so good. It seems like Diana forgot a deburring step. There’s a review on a compact one that suggests poor QC also. Diana is shooting itself in the foot, these days. 🙁

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    Smaug
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    “Bobbed06”
The trigger mod was very easy to do, and the break is crisp, and the pull is sub 3lb. Many Charlie Tuna trigger users preferred the bearing mod. I cant say for sure since I never tried that trigger. I am extremely happy with my trigger action now. This Nitro Venom is not overly powerful, I think its a 13 ft lb rifle, which I need for the particular varmints I got it for.

    I ordered a Hammers 3x9x40 AO scope and monoblock mount a couple of days ago. I am looking forward to having a decent scope on it, as I am very confident up to 35-40 yards with it as is. If I can make that range use easier with the new scope, I am a happy camper. I own 2 nitro pistons and a springer. they are all enjoyable for me to use.Let us know what you pick!

    
I’m just thinking about it now, probably won’t buy anything else any time soon. I have the 12 FPE Vortek kit on the way for my TX200 (hopefully here tomorrow) and I’m going to put that in first and get it shooting reliably well. After that, I’ll be a pro tuner (yuk yuk yuk) and may not have a desire for a gas springer any more.

    Or, maybe I’ll sell/trade/give away my Stoeger X20 and think about what to replace it with. Maybe a Diana 340 Luxus and go through it to debur and tune it up properly. I don’t think I want/need any more Chinese airguns. It seems to me that the triggers can be greatly improved, but the other areas they may be lacking are not such an easy fix, and it is probably just better to start with a quality rifle. I don’t really want to support a company that installs terrible, heavy triggers just to satisfy the lawyer. (Crosman)

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