Why are 3000 psi gun tubes so high?

Forums General Discussion Why are 3000 psi gun tubes so high?

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    Richard300
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    I was shopping today and saw some larger tank for paint ball guns that were under 30 bucks. They were rated for 3000 psi co2.
    Why couldn’t a guy adapt them to there airgun and gain a lot more capacity for cheap. To me pressure is pressure 3000 psi co2 or just compressed air. What am i missing?
    If I am wrong just let me know. If they can make large co2 tanks for shooting paint balls for a low cost why cant they do that for pellet rifles? Machining the valve cant be any different then a airgun valve.
    I would love to hear what you all think about this.
    Thanks Richard
     

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    spysir
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     Not to be picky on verbiage , I’m certainly lax in mine often but,
    “Co2 ” tanks are NOT normally “3,000psi” rated.   What most folks call “Co2” tanks – like the 20oz unit available at wally mart- would have a bust disc around 1,800psi.
    “Painball tank”  as in the common cf tanks and the Ninja 13ci tank ( have one of those on my QB78 & Tim uses one on the USFT) are for Air not “Co2” and do often fill to 3,000+psi BUT they have regulators commonly set at 850psi and some higher.
     A CF bottle that will fit right on some of the better rifles available these days are $200.00 or so.
    A “3,000psi tube”  could be purchased from crosman for $40.00ish, naturally it would be inletted for a discovery/marauder or?
     It would seem nearly all rifles that comes with CF bottle’s and most all after market CF bottles come from one manufacture though some makers & dealers may well spec their own things such as the evanex model with the knobbie up front to fit a bracket, some are DOT approved others ( save a dollar???) are not. 
     A good number of those AF rifles types seem to have adapted HONKING large paintball bottles – CF – to their high power rigs. 
    I am thinking a metal airgun bottle in the 400-500cc range is a bit under $200.00.
     Mainly, could it be the International marker for a cf ( or metal )bottle that fits most airgun application just isn’t large enough to take on the current big manufacturer who could at anytime undercut any price if they felt the need.?.

     Have a build in mind?

    John  
     
     

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    gorgata
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    I thought the same thing for a long time until I did alot of reading
    ​ sure spend 75-100 bucks on a tank
    ​then another 100 for the regulated valve witch has t be set for3000psi most paint balls tanks are set form under 1k
    ​then buy the proper fill adaptor another 75-100 so really it comes out to 300 $
    ​plus bulk co2 is a breat idea until you relize its a liquid and  is vary temp sensitive
    ​plus now that I think about it what would co2 do to a regulator

    ​id rather just spend the 300 bucks form a carbon tank with all the stuff needed to fill out the box

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    Richard300
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    Thanks for the info… I don’t have any build in mind at this time. I’m just in the learning stage right now.Sucking it all in for future ideas…..  : ) I do like taking an underdog and bringing it up to the standard of better quality projects. I retire in about 16 months that is when I will have time to use some of the knowledge that I am gaining now.I will be building and changing my rifle to a bullpup before I retire. I want to learn the more about advanced tuning on my air guns. Like I use to hear….shut up and listen and you will learn something…..  : )  So I try to do that now. I wasn’t to good at that in my earlier part of my life….  : ) I haven’t found to many pcp users here in WI in my area. So I ask here and learn, Its amazing all the knowledge on here and the great airgun enthusiasts that are on here. 
    Thanks Richard
     

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    Richard300
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    gorgata…See some things I didn’t think of. So my rifle has a 3000 psi fill. I put a 55 dollar regulator in it. So the pressure out of it is regulated to what ever I set it for. Most of the tanks that I saw the only way to fill them would be to taking them off every time and refill them. That would be a pain. Unless you machined in front of the tank a fitting to slid your air probe into. Heck before you got done with it you could buy two or more that were made for your rifle. Unless you have the skill and a machine shop. I have a lathe and a mill but not much skill…. : ) If i could build it …it wouldn’t be much out of pocket but a lot of time and learning…..And maybe doctor bills if not careful     :  ) 
    Thanks Richard

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    zebra
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    Are you talking about large tanks that we use to fill pcp reservoirs (like scuba or scba) or are you talking about the actual pcp gun reservoirs? 

    The smaller paintball tanks are typically used to power the markers directly. You are correct that 4500 psi and 3000 psi paintball tanks are typically less expensive than products made for air guns but they are produced in much larger volumes. In general, the reason why most things are expensive is that people will pay for it. Air gun products seem to be more expensive than equivalent products from other markets. 

    That being said if you wanted to make your own pcp air reservoir, you wouldn’t save much. Take a look at the McMaster site. They sell threaded aluminum tubes rated for 3000 psi and steel ones rated up to 6000psi. An equivalent 1.5″ diameter 16″ length tube can be $50-$70 on it’s own. This is before you add end caps, thread adapters, valves and regulators. A spare cylinder for a Hatsan AT44 with a valve is $80. 

    If you knew what you were doing, you could remove the regulator from a paintball tank, make an adapter to fit a PCP gun valve and use it with your air rifle. For the majority of us, this is not a good place for a diy project….

    If your aim is to find a less expensive tank to fill your PCP gun, the cheapest way I found was to buy a used 4500 SCBA tank. The shop I bought mine from always has tons of used 30 and 45 minutes tanks with 5 years + of life left and a fresh hydro for around $100. Then go to North Shore and order an SCBA nipple and nut, a 1/4″ NPT male to 1/8″ NPT male adapter, a female 1/8″ NPT female T fitting, a guage, a 1/8″ not hose and a 1/8″ npt to quick disconnect fitting. 

     

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    Richard300
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    zebra…talking about gun reservoirs Sorry I wan’t sure the exact name of them. I see hatson has a new gun coming out with a 500cc tank. Cant remember the name of it. That is what I was thinking of setting up. But like you and the others on here it looks like the cost by the time you set it up would be more. 
    I have 2 used 4500 psi 45 min tanks off of ebay that are good for 3 more years. That will keep me going for a while. Had to pay like 80 bucks shipped for each one. They work great. Yep …..went to north shore and got my gauge components there.
    I have the equipment to build a valve…. but not the know how to do it safely. So I will pass on building one …until I get the knowledge.
    Thanks Richard

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    mister12ax7
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    I bet the companies that manufacture HPA tanks for commercial and public use must have some serious liability insurance
    ​to cover their asses. That must be part of the “overhead” cost that gets passed on to the consumer. 

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    Richard300
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    Mister12…. good point… I bet that does bring the price up.
    Richard

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    zebra
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    “mister12ax7”I bet the companies that manufacture HPA tanks for commercial and public use must have some serious liability insurance
    ​to cover their asses. That must be part of the “overhead” cost that gets passed on to the consumer. 

    
It is more likely that they cover their asses by getting someone else to do their hydro test. If a tank explodes and takes off someone’s head, they didn’t do the hydro test properly your honor. 

    The place I bought my used tanks from is a firefighter supply store. They sell large volumes of new and used tanks to fire departments across the country. They do hydro testing onsite and even they have semi-outsourced it to a one-man business. He sits upstairs on his own doing hydro testing all day and is blissfully unaware of the liability timebomb he sits on. 

    Sh*t rolls down hill and if I was him, in the event of a problem, I would be saying they should take action against whoever came up with that inadequate hydro procedure….

    For the air reservoirs on our pcp guns, I doubt they have to worry. We generally fill them ourselves using adapters that weren’t fitted by anyone qualified. It would fairly short work to successfully blame us  in court for their product malfunction. That’s if you could afford to even take it to court. The one and only time I tried to use the legal system, it cost me over $50,000 excluding all lawyers fees. Never again….

    On the diy valve thing, you are correct that it is not something to try if you don’t know what you are doing but….. They can be bought ready made for very little money. If I was going to make my own cylinder (which I’m not) Pyramyd Air sells replacement valve piston and seals for the Sumatra for $5. $5 for the end cap springs too. The whole valve assembly is less than $20. 

    The easiest way of doing it would be to buy a replacement valve for the air rifle you intend to use it with. Then buy an aluminum tube rated to at least 1500psi more than you intend to use it for. Then buy a tap or die for the correct thread size for the valve and an end cap for the other end and that’s all. 

    99.9% of use will never get past pricing up the parts on the McMaster site because it eventually dawns on you that it’s a terrible idea.

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    Richard300
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    Thanks….good info zedra.
    Richard

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