Why 10 meter precision shooters us diopters vs Scopes ?

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    jaydog
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    Why do 10 meter shooters use the Diopter system vs a scope ?  What advantages does this have over a scope ?
    Can the diopter system be used in other shooting systems like hunting or shooting greater distances ?
    Also,  I think the airforce edge has a 2 or 4 power diopter lens at the front of it not sure?   Shooting bows they had some diopter kits we used from 2 to 8 power in shooting 5 spot targets at 20 yards. 

    Your thoughts ?

    Jay

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    scopes would be much better but not allowed in the rules…..

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    Hammer47
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    I find that I am more accurate at 10 meters in the offhand position with the aperture sights.  There is way less “target panic” for me with the apertures over the glass. This is a personal preference but it is what it is.  Shooting is SUPPOSED to be a time of relaxation for me but the scope just adds to the stress level.  Now shooting from the bench, it’s glass all the way but not from the offhand…or in my case AWFULHAND  position.

    You will also find that the loading port on the 10 meter rifles is far more easily accessed  with apertures than scopes.  In the FWB 300 series it can be a real trick to mount a scope and have easy access to the loading port.  Doable of course but still far more difficult to load with a scope hanging over the port.  You will also find that the height of the comb of the buttstock is designed to be used with apertures rather than a scope.  Scopes are always too high when placed on a 10 meter rifle so you wind up needing an adjustable butt and cheek piece to get the level even close to correct………..Gary

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    c_m_shooter
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    Open sights with a peep sight work for hunting if the shooter has good enough eyes or the game is big enough. The hole in a target diopter is too small to use in low light, so a bigger peep is needed.  I have one powderburner hunting rifle set up with open sights in 9.3×62.  The sight is set so that from 50-200 yards I put the top edge of the sight at the bottom edge of a deer or pig at the intersection of the front leg and send it.  Basically a 6 oclock hold to avoid obscuring the target.  Most shooters these days don’t take the time to learn open sights, but they work if proper size targets are used. Visit a CMP service rifle match to get an idea of the target scale, they shoot 200, 400 and 600 yards but the targets seem huge when you walk up to them.

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    Hammer47
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    Jay…….just a heads up……….we need a different target for the AGN shoot that has a visible black ring on it for the aperture shooters.  The target we are now using is [for me at least] impossible to see thru an aperture.  Jimmy Fussel sent me a benchrest target that although it is meant for longer distances it can be copied online and works great for 10 meter offhand.  The scoring rings are different but if it is used only for irons or apertures we could just have a separate division for the non scope shooters.  Just a thought.  G

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    John_in_Ma
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    “Hammer47”Jay…….just a heads up……….we need a different target for the AGN shoot that has a visible black ring on it for the aperture shooters.  The target we are now using is [for me at least] impossible to see thru an aperture.  Jimmy Fussel sent me a benchrest target that although it is meant for longer distances it can be copied online and works great for 10 meter offhand.  The scoring rings are different but if it is used only for irons or apertures we could just have a separate division for the non scope shooters.  Just a thought.  G


    Before we start changing the target tp suit one type of sighting system over another lets shoot the first round and see how everyone does.

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    Metalmaniac
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    I have an Airforce Edge the front sight has no power to it. It is a piece of polycarbonate with a tapered hole in it to make a halo effect around the target . I do not use it though  I scoped it for plinking.

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    jaydog
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    Thanks for the input. guys. 

     

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    jaydog
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    I agree this month we use the same target.  Next month we can improve it. 

    Thanks 

    Jay

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    PHeplerNC
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    I’m not clear on what the issue is with the AGN shoot target, but if we need to tweak it for round 2 I can adjust it. Make lines thicker, filled black, etc.

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    Hammer47
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    “John_in_Ma”

    “Hammer47”Jay…….just a heads up……….we need a different target for the AGN shoot that has a visible black ring on it for the aperture shooters.  The target we are now using is [for me at least] impossible to see thru an aperture.  Jimmy Fussel sent me a benchrest target that although it is meant for longer distances it can be copied online and works great for 10 meter offhand.  The scoring rings are different but if it is used only for irons or apertures we could just have a separate division for the non scope shooters.  Just a thought.  G


    Before we start changing the target tp suit one type of sighting system over another lets shoot the first round and see how everyone does.

    Already did, I was just thinking ahead for those who want to use irons or apertures.
     

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    Hammer47
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    “PHeplerNC”I’m not clear on what the issue is with the AGN shoot target, but if we need to tweak it for round 2 I can adjust it. Make lines thicker, filled black, etc.

    
 Just one black ring added would do the job.

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    tonyv138
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    the target like this – https://www.amazon.com/Meter-Ft-Air-Rifle-Bullseye/dp/B01IIWSMCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513635516&sr=8-1&keywords=12+bull+air+rifle+target would help those who use peep sites to see the black area i believe. Still would work for scopes as the bull itself is not blackened out. Works for open sights for 6 o’clock aim as well. 

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    Hammer47
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    That would work of course but it is a big waste of ink for those guys that are printing the targets online.

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    Hammer47
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    Go to PHOENIX AIRGUN CLUB site, then MUCH MORE on the top right, then drop down to TARGETS  and take a gander at the 25 yard practice target on the right side of the page 2/3 of the way down.  I printed a gang of these and they are great at 10 meters offhand for either scope or apertures.YMMV but I think this is a great target.

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    tonyv138
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    Understand the ink issue. 

    Yet, If i wanted to use a peep sites or open sites, not sure if i could even aim, I was considering to try this but did not have a chance yet. Perhaps an allowance should be made for those who want to use peep or open sites.

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    ink? oh jeebus just go buy a cheapo laser printer. I cant belive people still buy ink printers.

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    Hammer47
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    “Deja”ink? oh jeebus just go buy a cheapo laser printer. I cant belive people still buy ink printers.

    Laser printer?  Surely you jest.

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    gonzav71
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    10 meter air rifle shooting has rules prohibiting the use of telescopic sights – scopes. It has been that way since the event was created. The ISSF the governing body for the event has held World Championships since 1966 and has been an Olympic event since 1984. You can get an advantage when using a telescopic sight because of the magnification and target and aiming reticle clarity you can achieve. With diopter/aperture sights, you are using concentric circles to take aim. You look through the tiny rear peep sight centering your eye until you see the circular front sight. You align the circular black paper target in the middle of the circular front sight. The photo below shows the alignment but in reality the rear peep would look fuzzy  (the outer thick black ring) and the paper target at distance would be fuzzy as well. I was taught to just focus on the front sight and let it float around the paper target black spot. I would break the shot and try my best to keep aiming through the shot (follow through).

    You can use diopter sights for long range shooting out to 1200 meters – Palma Rifle Matches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Confederation_of_Fullbore_Rifle_Associations

    You will not see diopter sights on hunting rifles. Animals are not circular targets. Many short ranged hunting rifles may have a large ghost ring rear peep sight and a (sometimes hooded) ramp front sight for fast target acquisition (snap shooting). Military rifles still have diopter rear sights – M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1903A3 Springfield, M1917 Enfield, SMLE, M16A1, M16A2, HK G3, HK33, etc.
     

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    Robtu
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    thanks for the info ,that makes sense

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