Whiscombe honey vs pledge vs slick50 vs krytech?

Forums Pellets, Projectiles, & Ammo Whiscombe honey vs pledge vs slick50 vs krytech?

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    Franklink
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    My poly .177 gets dirty within a couple hundred shots and then it starts throwing 1 to 2 flyers every 10 shots. Clean it back up and it goes back to 1/2 inch, 55 yard groups.

    I tried to smooth up the barrel with jb bore paste and it’ll now go around 600 shots before the flyers come back, but they do come back.

    Some recent posts have me thinking that I’m  ready to dive into lubing pellets as a possible solution to keep the barrel clean for longer.

    Any suggestions on a good place to start with lubes for poly barrel shooting jsb pellets? I’m kinda leaning to the whiscombe honey made of stp and hoppes gun oil but could be easily dissuaded if that’s a bad idea for some reason.

    Thanks.

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    2D1C
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    Do a search on lubed pellets? You’ll have hours of reading!
    LOL

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    sonny
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    Ive been using napier power pellet lube its expensive but you don’t use a lot per tin.I found it cheaper on ebay, some oil based products will break down rubber(o rings)not to mention dieseling. Dont know what the heck its made out of but it works good.

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    Xbowsniper
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    Franklink, you’ll have to experiment with all the above, I can safely say that all my barrels like either: no lube, Kry Tech, or Lemon Pledge.  I describe how to apply each of those lubes in one of my earlier videos on Field Target Tech Channel.  I would stay away from powder burner solvents, don’t know what they would do to o rings.  Kry Tech is a liquid wax when applied, and dries into a very thin coat of wax.  Lemon Pledge is the same, but applied differently, as I describe in my video.

    Tom Holland 

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    Franklink
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    Thanks guys. 

    Tom, I’ll have to check out your video.

    I posed this question at the last match and got about what an internet search gets ya: different answers from everyone. One guy (whose opinion I really respect) made it sound like the krytech does better with traditional rifling and slick 50 was his recommendation for a poly. So from that I was kinda thinking maybe wax based lubes for traditional rifling and synthetic lubes for poly? A  Thomas owner told me he just sprays some wd40 on a handful of pellets and let’s the excess run off. I’m not remembering clearly  but I think he may have told me Mike (the Thomas Mike) told him wd40.  

    This kinda seems like one of those “which pellet is best for x gun?” posts, the answer…….. it depends on the particular gun.  I guess I’ll do some experimenting.

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    Xbowsniper
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    It depends on nothing….. THAT’S the frustrating part.  I have several Lothar Walther choked barrels that are identical, and one likes no lube, and the others different lubes.  I have several Marauder barrels, (old tooling style), and it’s the same for them, but they all need to have lubed pellets,  none of the lubes are the same, not dry ones.  Yes, it’s kind of a crapshoot until you find the one that outshines the others.

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    John_in_Ma
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    “Xbowsniper” Yes, it’s kind of a crapshoot until you find the one that outshines the others.
     

    
HA!

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    sonny
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    was trying to post 2nd video

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by sonny.
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    sonny
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    Xbowsniper
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    Sonny, these are good demonstrative videos on what lubes would diesel and damage your air rifles.  Everyone watching these videos should remember that these videos are what you should NOT do to get more power out of a springer.  Not all viewers read the bottom notes, which he states WILL damage the gun, so this needs to be remembered and heeded.

    Tom Holland 

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    Kinetic45
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    You did not mention it but I had recommended to me and tried it and continued to use it…
    2 cycle oil – synthetic, mixed with a solvent (I actually use ethanol since I have drums of it for my race car) mixed 30:1

    I wash my pellets to get all the lead dust/swarf off then rinse them in the 2 cycle oil mix and let dry. it keeps the pellets from oxidizing and works nicely in the barrels of several air rifles.

    I do have one Mrod that only likes Finish Line – Ceramic wax chain lube (like Krytech)
    And Pledge works for some rifles, well and not at all in another couple… go figure.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Kinetic45.
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    D-RIG
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    Go for the Slick 50 lube , it’s synthetic and will not diesel 
    ben using this stuff for years and it works great for me .

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    stonepark
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    May i suggest an alternative approach.

    Go back to the barrel, remove if feasible (if not strip out any seals), use a good lead boresolvent and clean your barrel back to steel.

    Next part depends on rifle design but can reassemble or not depending on how you feel.

    Use a ws2 paste (i use 9 parts ws2 to 1 part krytox) and using a clean mop apply to barrel and work it for 20 strokes back and fowards, then fire 1 pellet down bore, repeat coating and firing for 10 cycles.

    The internal coating of the barrel for one cycle can be repeated every tin of pellets.

    On the one airgun that gives me trouble, this seems to have solved the issue between filling any microscratches and the general coating of ws2.

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    AirGunShooter
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    To lube or not lube can be a really difficult subject.  I had a barrel that absolutely required lube, but the barrel vendor warned me right up front; so I knew what to expect with it.  Two other rifles made by the same factory, display completely different results with lubed pellets, even though the rifles have the same barrels – right down to the same caliber.  Another rifle likes some pellets lubed and some not.  But the kicker is, these pellets come from the same manufacturer and vary only by lot numbers.   That one really is a head scratcher!

    Overall, I try not to lube pellets unless I cannot get a rifle (barrel) to shoot as well as I think it should.  If all else fails, I give lubed pellets a go.  Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t.

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    davemac18
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    just cleaning pellets has helped my intervals of barrel cleaning extend greatly

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    Franklink
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    I washed the rest of my current open tin and a new tin (so about 700 pellets).  I was quite surprised at the amount of what appeared to be small lead flecks that came off of the JSBs since I have never seen that in the bottom of an empty tin. What that tells me is that junk was mostly on, and perhaps in, the pellets. The
    attached pic is what came out of the partial tin. There was proportionately more from the full tin.
    After letting them dry, I lubed them with slick50 sprayed onto two of the round tin foams and rolled them around like Tom in Co (tomcat) shows in his video. 

    Initial results show the consistent accuracy that I see with a clean barrel is still there with the lubed pellets. 

    I knocked down 75% of the targets at yesterday’s match, that’s a little lower than my average but the winds were tricky and there seemed to be alot of really small kill zones. I wasnt happy with it but it was good enough for 2nd in open class. I think the lower knockdown percentage was due to factors not related to my lubed pellets.

    If I can get through those 700 ish pellets without the flyer problem returning than I’ll assume the problem is fixed. 
    I’ll report back when I get to that point.

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    Pelletgage
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    I made some notes recently after doing some online research. I don’t lubricate my own pellets, but I have seen absolute evidence of a lubricant on some tins of JSB pellets after putting them in a glass container for sorting. They say they don’t lubricate, but I have seen reference to application of some chemicals in their processing. 

    In my work career, some electronic components required (due to Bellcore requirements) lubrication. We applied a polyphenyl ether compound (a high molecular weight synthetic material with a consistency like Karo syrup at room temperature). This was done using a method Bellcore called “plating”, although this is a misnomer. The thick liquid was prepared as a 2% w/w solution in a fluorocarbon solvent.  The connectors were dipped in the solution, and when the solvent evaporated, a thin coating of the lubricant remained on the surface.

    This technique would work well on pellets, IMHO. The solvent I would recommend is naptha. Of course, the pellets would need to be allowed to “dry” fully before use.

    I believe that any lubrication can have negative effect if not done consistently and with care. Excess lubricant can often cause issues, and would likely have adverse effect on pellets.

    here are my notes on this:

    pellet lubrication – commonly mentioned materials:
     pledge
    silicone spray
    silicone oil
    Frog lube
    Alchemy airwerks
    Crosman Pellgun Oil
    Napier Power Lube
    10 cp silicone oil
     “Super Lube” (Walmart) – a grease

    Characteristics that I consider mandatory:
    high flash point – no detonating
    no harm to seals
    no physical buildup or residue
    no reaction with brass, steel, aluminum

    Characteristics that are desirable:
    good lubricity
    dissolution in fast evaporating solvent
    inhibit oxidation of lead
    inhibition of rust for barrel
    Stable viscosity

    references:
    http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/RWS_Air_Chamber_Lube_Dropper_Silicone_Oil_50_oz/3002
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/airgun-lubes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ 

    Alchemy Airwerks$8.23 with free shipping for 1/2 ozhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Airgun-Chamber-Lube-Pure-100-Silicone-Oil-2X-Crosman-Silicone-Chamber-Oil-/291551026977?hash=item43e1cb9f21
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/02/how-to-lubricate-pellets/

    Tom Gaylord mentions a UK company who makes claims about power and accuracy.  Napier?
    “Whiscombe oil” 2 parts Hoppes gun oil, 1 part STP” 


    https://www.shooters-choice.com/fp-10-lubricant-elite
    “semi -synthetic”Shooter’s Choice FP-10 4 oz for $6-9 “contains MT-10”
    https://www.shooters-choice.com/pdf/FP-10%20MSDS.pdfhttp://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/02/how-to-lubricate-pellets/
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/02/how-to-lubricate-pellets/

    Napier Power Pellet Lubehttp://www.napierusa.com/acatalog/Power-Pellet-Lube-10ml–6050–43.html#SID=3http://www.straightshooters.com/napier-pellet-lube-spray.html
    Napier Power Lube reviews
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Napier-Pellet-Power-increase-accurancy/dp/B001FFIYS4

    Krytech
    http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/chain-lubricants/wax-lube

    Slick 50 OneLube
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1485937844/last-1485987559/Expand+Thread

    lead oxidation
    http://www.atcglass.co.uk/pdf/TS-TH-05a.pdf “patina formation follows the route: lead, lead oxide, basic lead carbonate, normal lead sulphate,  and normal lead sulphate” 
    http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/File14.htm corrosion can be removed with 10% HCl solutionalso 5% EDTAacetic, tannic, humid acids attack lead, do not store in oak cabinets or drawersair-tight packages best avoid oak, plywood http://cool.conservation-us.org/byform/mailing-lists/cdl/2000/1454.html

    related (distantly) bicycle chain lube
    http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/bikes-and-tech/the-who-what-why-of-chain-lubes_448772

    Muscle Products Corp Firepower FP-10
    http://musclelubricants.com/firepower-fp-10-military/
    recommended by Marmot Militia has flash point of 282F, largely petroleum distillates based on SDS 

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    Xbowsniper
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    Jerry,

    You are correct, most of the pellet manufacturers do not lubricate their pellets.  Mostly, what everyone feels on the pellets, that we usually wash off, is some kind of release agent, so the pellet can be ejected from the die during manufacturing.
    Like I’ve said before, all guns are different, you can get 5 high end guns made consecutively on the assembly line, and they’ll like 5 different lubes, maybe one of them, no lube at all.  It’s all hit or miss.  My guns either like nothing, Kry Tech, or Pledge.  No chance of detonation on those, they are all wax based.  Any other lubes with any distillates or solvents in them scare me, I tend to stay away from them.

    Tom Holland 

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