Which brands/models of PCPs are truly regulated

tiptop

Member
Nov 12, 2016
135
4
OH
I asked about regulation at a local airgun dealer and got kind of a waffley answer. Something along the lines that there are different types of regulation. My question is which brands/models have actual pressure regulators that give a level shot string, delivering the exact same amount of air for each shot within the useable tank pressure range? It seems to me that this would be important in choosing a PCP.
 
Tiptop,
​ You are hovering all around the question without actually stating it. Why do people want regulated guns? Typically there are two popular reasons (and about a dozen minor ones). The two top reasons are to extend the total number of shots an air rifle will deliver AND to reduce the extreme spread in speed from the first shot to the last shot. If there is an air rifle which you unsure whether it has a regulator, there are a couple of tricks you can employ to figure it out by looking at the published shot strings. If it shoots a large number of shots (for the given FPE vs tank size), and the shots on the long string are all within 2 percent of the fastest pellet's speed, then it is likely either regulated, or has an electronic hammer strike mechanism which is set up to have a longer dwell as tank pressure drops. 
​ To put it more directly, I don't actually want a "regulator", what I actually want is a bunch of shots at a good FPE and with consistent velocity. The regulator is just a good mechanism to get me there (along with other elements). I found air rifles with regulators from the factory expensive; although they are likely well worth every cent, they were beyond my comfort zone to spend initially. I chose to modify and add a regulator; my wallet made the deciding vote. 
​ I will fully defend other's approach to start with a high-end regulated rifle. They are purchasing more than just additional shots with a narrow FPS variation. They are also (typically) getting better fit and finish, smoother cycling, better balance and a greater visual appeal.
 
a-tooth - Thanks for the thoughtful answer. This whole pcp thing is way deeper than I first thought. What seemed to be a relatively simple idea to deliver more performance than the springers turns out to be a fair bit more complex. Harnessing the high pressures needed brings a whole other batch of challenges - including chasing leaks, getting consistent shot strings, and not spending yourself into the poorhouse. I don't own a pcp yet and don't know if I will. I'm just trying to learn more about them first. I've watched some online videos and tutorials but a lot of them seem to be sales tools or very basic. I appreciate the knowledge gained by hanging around here.
 
 Addertooth is correct, the reason for a regulator is to increase shot count and reduce the extreme spead through the shot count. With certain tuners and rifles, this could be done without a regulator. I personally would lean towards a regulated rifle but. as long as it has an acceptable shot count and low extreme spread, it would not stop me from purchasing that rifle. Many of the high-end rifles are now regulated (but not all), and the lower-end rifles, a regulator can be added. Daystate (Regal) is the exception to the rule. It aready has an good shot count and low extreme spread, and so a regulator is not necessary and probably will not improve by much. I have personally stayed away from Air Arms rifles due to the higher cost of the rifle and not being regulated. (If you check Matt Dubber's channel, he placed a regulator on a Sporter Extreme rifle which greatly improves the shot count, reduced extreme spread, and improved accuracy. I would love to have one of these beautiful, accurate rifles, but IMO, not having a regulator has limited it's sales here in the US. You will have to research each rilfe to determine if it has, or needs a regulator. If it does not clearly state it has a regulator, then assume it doesn't. 
Hope this helps,

NM

PS- take your time before jumping in to make sure you get what you want. I would plan on watching tons of U-tube. See what has to be done, to each rifle you are interested in, right out of the box. My Cricket shot great from the start. My Marauder required a lot of help!. However, it helped me learn about how they work. I am extremely happy with both!
 
"tiptop"I don't know much but isn't it true that some regulators are internal and some are more like add-ons? Maybe I should have asked which ones actually work well. Or maybe they all do. The ambiguous answer I got at the airgun dealer just got me to wondering.
Guns that come with regulators are mostly internal. You can add an aftermarket reg to almost any gun but they are mostly internal too. There are a small number of aftermarket regs that are external but I wouldn't worry about that for where you are right now.

Good air rifles of any kind are expensive and PCP obviously has a larger initial investment but they are more than just an enhanced springer. If you don't have a good amount of cash to put into it, I would wait. 

If I could go back and give myself advice, it would be to skip all of the lower cost entry level air rifles and just buy the one I wanted straight away. You'll end up buying it eventually anyway so save yourself time and cash. I will never go back to unregulated guns.

regulated guns have higher fill pressures, they are more efficiency, quieter, smoother etc. There is a reason why most high end guns have them.
 
I think in making the decision on whether you want a regulated PCP also lies on what your plans for the gun it going to be. Depending on the type of shooting you will be doing will have an affect on your decision. For example if you're doing Field Target or something where precision is important then a regulator would be in your favor of providing the most accuracy. If you are just going to be doing hunting and plinking with the gun the a regulator will not have as much of an affect on the gun. The addition of a regulator usually also means an increase in price. There are exceptions to this as the FX Wildcat and Streamline are both regulated and have a lower price point than most of the other rifles offered by FX. The benefits of a regulator are minimal and you can always add one afterwards if you decide you want one. You should more focus on what caliber, look, and design of a gun that you want and then pick from there. 

Also in terms of chasing leaks that is something that I would not be worried about. On my rifle I have never experienced leaking, and my understanding is that most leaks come as a result of other tinkering with the rifle. We all want to get the best piece of kit possible, but sometimes that comes with other comprises. Also in terms of "not spending yourself in the poorhouse" that is something that you don't really need to worry about if you know what you want. Just pick out the rifle, scope, magazine, and maybe a bipod and extra magazines, but get the right brand the first time. Don't mess around with trying to save money as you will most likely end up spending more money in the long run. Just invest the money the first time.

The benefits of a PCP are well worth the money that you will invest into them. The ability to pull back a lever and take a second shot immediately is priceless. I much prefer to pump my gun 50-200 times at once and then have 40 shots at 46 FPE than pumping 10 times between shots and only generating 6 FPE, which is pretty much useless.
 
"zebra"
If I could go back and give myself advice, it would be to skip all of the lower cost entry level air rifles and just buy the one I wanted straight away. You'll end up buying it eventually anyway so save yourself time and cash. I will never go back to unregulated guns.


I can't say I totally agree with this statement. I actually bought one high-end and one low-end to start out. If you don't ever want to see how these things work and just want to be a shooter this is good advise. HOWEVER, after spending a lot of time and effort in getting my Marauder to shoot well (and now it does), I have a lot more knowledge about these PCP's and I am able to do a lot of my own maintenance. Eventually all these rifles will need to be broken down and it can be a significant amout to send them to a tuner. Yes you can spend the cost of the low-end rifle in upgrades but most likely you will still be under a grand! FYI- not all high end rifles have regulators so be sure (ex. Air Arms and some FX like the Bobcat may or may not be regulated).
Again, take your time to figure out what you want
NM
 
NMShooter - I have to say I agree with using entry level guns as a starting point. If I'd have had to wait to save my pennies for an FX Impact, I'd still be waiting. As it is, I also have a Marauder (Gen II) and have worked with it to understand what I really want in a PCP. It's a learning platform that can stay with you for the rest of your life.

In Information Technology (IT) we often "prototype" a system. Basically, that means code up a screen or two, take them to the customer and ask if that's what they really want. Sometimes, there's not even any code, it's just designs. If the customer wants modifications, we work that all out and then, start from scratch and build the system. The initial screens are considered throw-away design exercises. It sort of gets us in the ball park for what the customer wants.

I view many things I've done over the years as prototypes, and while the Marauder was an excellent purchase, it got me into the game and it's something I can learn from while I save the pennies for the FX Slimline, Royale, or maybe Impact I'll eventually get.

The entry level gun lets me experiment with scope combinations, bi-pods, slings, design variations, and anything else I can push on it to learn from. Then, I can figure out what gun I really want later on.

So, what have I learned from the Marauder?
1. Accuracy is a must. The marauder is accurate, but I want more.
2. Light weight - the Marauder is too heavy for me to lug around
3. Higher shot count. OK, maybe 40 shots per fill should be enough, but I want more.
4. Caliber - I have the .22 Marauder. That's adequate for most of what I shoot.
5. Length of gun is important. The Marauder if 40 inches long. I want shorter. Even buying cases can be a challenge for the longer guns.
6. Regulated would be a definite plus,but not a deal breaker. After shooting an unregulated gun I see the advantages of a regulated gun, but could go either way.
7. Support system - I didn't realize all the parts a PCP requires to run well. Initially, I purchased and air pump. That was a bust. Almost immediately bought a 4500 PSI air tank. Found a place to fill it close by. Absolute must for any PCP (Except possibly the Benjamin Maximus)
8. Scope - still working on this one. I have a 4-14x and just purchased a 6-24x scope. Figuring out how to mount, use, and what I need.
9. Magazine - I'll pay particular attention to the magazine for ease of use.
10. Cocking effort. The Marauder takes around 10 pounds of effort to cock and compress the spring. FX and other major brand guns seem to take much less effort to cock. I want less effort.
11. Trigger. The Marauder has a decent trigger, but I want more. A NICE light pull would help. Not a hair trigger mind you, but a couple pound pull might be very nice.
12. Stock. While wood is beautiful and I love wood as an amateur wood worker, I prefer synthetic stocks. They don't move in the weather, don't scratch as easily and if they do scratch I really don't care. If it was wood, I'd baby it too much (that's a personal thing, shiny wood should always be babied in my opinion)
13. Noise. I want a QUIET gun for use in the back yard if I choose. It needs to be quiet if I'm hunting and want that follow up shot.

There is quite a bit more if I really set my mind to it, but that list is a good start.

Do all the negatives with the Marauder mean I don't like the gun? No, it really doesn't. I love the gun. It shoots as well as any powder burner I've got, and allows me to shoot where the PB's won't. Even the range employees where I shoot are fascinated by a compressed air gun. No recoil means that nasty flinch left over from the 30-06 is gradually going away. I can practice basics, develop muscle memory, and generally keep learning the sport while I accumulate pennies for that dream gun / scope combination that is a couple years away.

That was a long post, but if you aren't sure what you want, get a Maximus ($165 if you use the banner discount above, and Friday has been free shipping), get the kit around it, and shoot! The kit (tanks, range bags, safety gear, targets and the like) transfer to the dream gun, but you still get to shoot with the Maximus while saving for the dream gun. GET SHOOTING! Best part is that the Maximus will teach you what you want in that dream, and you get to keep the Maximus to share with others you'd like to turn on to the hobby.

OK, off my soap box, for now!
 
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My first PCP was a Benjamin Katana (Discovery with Marauder trigger group and barrel) and I filled with a 3300 psi scuba tank I got used for $125. It definitely expanded my perception of effective range. I eventually sold it due to POI shifts. Later I bought a used Gen 1 Marauder detuned to work on a 2100 psi fill. Its' trigger had been tuned to "telepathic". That gun took me to another level of accuracy, but it was heavy to lug around. After some research I added a CZs200 to my collection. Light, accurate, and quiet (with moderator), operates on a 2600 psi fill, making it Scuba tank friendly. I also grabbed a .25 cal Gen 1 that was going cheap from a buddy and am working on tuning it for 2500 psi. My point? You can get into PCPs and fill setups without going broke if you research a bit and buy used.
Shoot safe and Merry Christmas!
John
PS-I still have 3 guns, I use each for different types of shooting. My wish list-PELLETS!
 
I know that this post was originally about telling regulated vs non-regulated, but I'm going to continue on this discussion about what you need to look for in a rifle. I personally bought a crosman M4-177 as my first pellet/air gun. This was great for about a year or 2, but after shooting 1500 rounds through it I had no desire to shoot it any more. There was no joy coming from that gun. Taking 10 pumps to shoot every shot eventually got very tiring (that was 15000 pumps). My solution was I bought myself a Wildcat. I'm still very young considering the other people on this forum being only 17, but I knew that I would be losing money by not just investing in what I would eventually get. I knew I would get an FX or Daystate gun some day so I saved up the money for the gun and bought it. I might have went cheaper on some of the other aspects of the gun and if I could go back and change it I probably would. My biggest lesson to learn from would be to invest as much money as possible in a scope. If you don't spend at least $250-$500 on a scope then you will be causing yourself frustration later on down the road. The gun will not be able to preform without quality glass. The difference in a $190 and $390 scope has brought me back into airguns.
If you're looking to save money then just spend the money and get the gun that you will inevitably get. I know that you have a gun in the back of your mind that you would like to have, but don't feel comfortable in justifying the price. Airguns are just like cars though. You can trade them in and move up in value, but you're still going to suffer from depreciation. Just save yourself the hit and get the right gun the first time. When I don't shoot my Wildcat for awhile I wonder whether I put my money in the right place, but I know at the end of the day I can always sell it for most of what I paid for it, especially if you but off of the classified section. The other lesson that I'm still learning is that you should probably invest in a tank and not a hand pump. I haven't yet decided to take the financial hit and buy a tank, but I'm close to doing so. I spent like $270 on an FX pump that if I go to a tank then it will be useless for me. I could sell it, but I know I will lose money on it. If I had just bought a tank in the first place then I wouldn't have to worry about it.
Just think of the gun that you want and go ahead and get it. Then equip it with the best gear you can afford and be set with the gun. Then you won't have to fiddle around switching stuff around and slowly getting the performance you originally desired.
 
We each have our own method of getting to the promised land of the dream air rifle. Either way (buying dream gun right off, or buying prototype guns along the way) is valid. I think it depends on the personality of the person buying, and their ability to save enough pennies for the gun of a lifetime.

The best decision is to pick a method of getting your dream gun, and get moving on it. Don't spend too much time deciding, just get on with it!