Whats wrong the HW's and AA's…??

Forums PCP Airguns Whats wrong the HW's and AA's…??

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    SDellinger
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    I borrowed a HW110 from AOA back in October and it was one of the most accurate and sweet shooting airguns I have ever shot. Also the quietest. It had a fixed moderator I'm pretty sure. The only thing I don't like is the magazine. You can shoot when the magazine is empty. I loose count when shooting birds at the dairy. Very well built. No plastic parts as I remember. 

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    mubhaur
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    I have had hw100 .22 30 ftlb. 

    I have recommended many people the same model.

    The German engineering is at its top in design of hw100.

    Very fine regulator that stops air through a ball bearing and an O ring. Every time you replace the O rings your gun becomes new. No Delrin seat at all.

    Quick recovery time of regulator. 

    Tremendous trigger. May be one of the best in the market.

    Best magazine and its indexing system.

    Cant be double loaded.

    Side lever slick on opening and a bit tight on closing.

    No transfer port in barrel.

    Its built like a tank.

    Very difficult to find fault.

    The only issue is that in .22  6 grooved barrels sometimes the bore is over sized that causes accuracy issues.

    FSB model is 12 grooved. Normally very accurate up to 100 yards.

    Regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by mubhaur.
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    TiredRooster
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    I awake this morning to all of these responses to my question……WOW! After having read each and every explanation from you all, I now have a very good understanding/answer as to why I never hear about them. And it is actually kinda what I thought may have been the reason. I just knew from what I have seen that they had to be high quality PCP's, I just wasn't quite sure why they weren't discussed or mentioned often.Thank you all so much for the time taken to share your experience, opinions and knowledge. This is just a small example of one of the reasons I love to read and participate on AGN.

    Thank you  all

    TR

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    bowwild
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    Interesting thread.

    My first two air rifles (in the past 50 years) were both AA. A 410 FAC and ProSport under lever.  Both were beautiful, accurate, and very well made. Some of the finest blueing I'ver ever seen. I sold them both.  Steyrs are my favorite now because of the fun of the Auto 5, both in the Hunter Scout and the LP50.

    While this is an interesting thread, the tone seems a bit "apologetic" regarding the US consumer.   I don't know how the growth in the Air Rifle market is doing in the world beyond the United States, but it appears our consumers are a pretty positive force in the market and good for many manufacturers?  I don't think the OP meant this, but some of the posts seem to me, to be a "what's wrong with the American consumer"?

    I have zero interest in anything less than high 20's FPE. Hunting, not pesting is my thing and it is still going strong in North America, even for the under privileged and poorly connected. Shooting squirrels or birds in highly controlled, artificial settings such as bait piles and bird feeders, isn't for for me.  

    I'm pleased to live and consume in a country that doesn't regulate me to low power and appreciate the manufacturers that recognize the opportunity and demand. 

    I have, in the past week actually turned my interest to AA again because of the custom bull pup stocks a company is making. They are beautiful, compact stocks. 

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by bowwild.
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    TiredRooster
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    bowwild

    Interesting thread.

    My first two air rifles (in the past 50 years) were both AA. A 410 FC and ProSport undercover.  Both were beautiful, accurate, and very well made. Some of the finest blueing I'ver ever seen. I sold them both.  Steyrs are my favorite now because of the fun of the Auto 5, both in the Hunter Scout and the LP50.

    While this is an interesting thread, the tone seems a bit "apologetic" regarding the US consumer.   I don't know how the growth in the Air Rifle market is doing in the world beyond the United States, but it appears our consumers are a pretty positive force in the market and good for many manufacturers?  I don't think the OP meant this, but some of the posts seem to me, to be a "what's wrong with the American consumer"?

    I have zero interest in anything less than high 20's FPE. Hunting, not pesting is my thing and it is still going strong in North America, even for the under privileged and poorly connected. Shooting squirrels or birds in highly controlled, artificial settings such as bait piles and bird feeders, isn't for for me.  

    I'm pleased to live and consume in a country that doesn't regulate me to low power and appreciate the manufacturers that recognize the opportunity and demand. 

    I have, in the past week actually turned my interest to AA again because of the custom bull pup stocks a company is making. They are beautiful, compact stocks. 

    You are right. It was not my intention nor is it my leaning to be apologetic in any way for the "American way" of things……which is EXTREMELY varied. But, I understand what you perceived from some of the posts. I honestly wanted to hear answers from people as to the why these rifles are really not discussed and I am pleased and satisfied now…LOL. I too feel very blessed to live where I do and enjoy the freedoms and lack of regulations and restrictions that most of us in North America enjoy. I hunt with my air rifle and very much enjoy doing so. I am also appreciative that I can do so with more power than our fellow enthusiast across the pond. However, I will say this and truly mean it. I have seen what our British friends have learned to do with much less powerful air rifles, out of necessity due to their laws. I think that in many ways it has forced them to be better marksmen as wells as put a higher emphasis on accuracy when developing their air rifles. I think that shouldn't go unnoticed. But……to have precision accuracy and power is the best of both worlds I think. 

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    Jayson
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    bdzjlz

    In addition to a RAW .25 LRT and a Daystate Red Wolf HP, I own four AA and one WEIHRAUCH 97 (plus other high quality European springers).  While they are powerful and deadly accurate, the RAW and the RW get shot the least.  Nothing at 60 yards or less in my vault is any more accurate or better built and finished than are my AA PCP (3) and TX200 (1) rifles.  With Donny Sumo moderators on the pcps they are whisper quiet.  Three of the AA pcps have had tens of thousands of pellets through them over far more than a decade with not a single repair other than to replace the brass magazine clip a few times, a very minor and inexpensive 5 minute repair.  When my teenage granddaughter comes over to shoot, she grabs the AA S410 every time and she has shot them all.
     

    Dependable and beautiful all of the way.  Their is no reason to knock the AA Weihrauch products.  Those that do simply haven’t owned them.  

    I can’t agree more with all of the comments above! I was going to basically write the same thing about HW as he did about AA,  the two things about HW100’s, or maybe four or five? They are very high quality, very accurate to about 50 for me, after that Not bad, but not sub moa, smooth! They are just smooth! Down sides imo, low shot count and fricken long! Like 54 or 56”, so in fac, @ 30-33fpe, std length around 35-40 shots in 22, never had a 177 but people love em, I have noticed more “I sold it and wish I hadn’t “ comments as it applies to the HW 100, if they had a bottle? I would have shot one in 50 yd ebr, but as is, I would have ran out of air. No refills on that one.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Jayson.
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    NMshooter
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    These manufacturers are specifically designing rifles for the European market which is primarliy a sub 20 fps market. Most .177 and .22 can be modded up in power for  the US market but if you check the specs for the .25 most are under powered. The US market is almost an afterthought and they would have to invest in R & D and manufacturing to make a .25 with more power. Also, only  until recently AA and HW (correct me if I'm wrong on HW) did not have regulated rifles. The US market wants power, laser accuracy, and something light to carry in the field. You can get this in the smaller calibers but not in a .25. AA and HW have really fallen behind in providing what the US wants so companies like FX, EDgun, Kalibregun, and others have taken center stage. Although HW and AA are now beginning to address these issues, they have lost a huge market share and maybe in time will regain their status in the US market. Many of us have been dissapointed in these European-centered companies and have lost interest in them. Companies like FX and Edgun have recognized what we want and are delivering BIG-TIME and as you can see their sales have skyrocketed to the top. Vulcan and Kalibregun are running right behind them. I'm sure there are others I have missed. It was a tough lesson for Daystate but they totally flubbed on the Pulsar and Renegade (in .25). I couldn't wait for the Renegaide to come out in .25 only to see it was a 40 FPE rifle. Man, was I TOTALLY disappointed!!! They corrected it coming out with the HP version but by then I was turned off and ended not buying it and probably never will. So……….., if AA, HW, or any other manufacturer wants to sell rifles in the US, they will have to study what we want and spend some money and design what we want. 

    Although in the begining, I was not a huge FX fan, I tip my hat to them. It is very hard not to recognize their excitement and total commitment to improving accuracy up to and past the 100 yd mark. The ability to tune the rifle externally and change caliber easily are truly a game changer. My hat is also tipped to Edgun for his development in building a rugged hunting rifle that is simple, can be serviced and tuned by the user,  and a rifle that is made to last!

     

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    Long_Gun_Dallas
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    The HW's are very popular.  But I wanted a bottle gun with the largest adjustment range possible.  I have been eying a hw50 with threaded barrel lately 🧐

    The aa's are popular as well.  A specially their prong guns.  The pcp's just don't have that much adjustment, and limited air capacity.  The ones with capacity are quite long and heavy.  So, more suited to sub 12fpe shooting

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    jwrabbit123
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    funny I am a hi power slug shooter and I just bought a 17FPE  HW 44 IN .22 cal last month and I love it  , it is a pleasure to shoot low power no noise and just pure accuracy , I since then have set my leshiy to sub 12 also , as far as AA this was my 2nd pcp gun in like 2008 I got a S-510 from PA . I still got gun and like someone mentioned here every oring did last over 10 yrs very reliable , I have installed a regulator  in mine and it is great shooter as well I keep them .

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    TiredRooster
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    jwrabbit123

    funny I am a hi power slug shooter and I just bought a 17FPE  HW 44 IN .22 cal last month and I love it  , it is a pleasure to shoot low power no noise and just pure accuracy , I since then have set my leshiy to sub 12 also , as far as AA this was my 2nd pcp gun in like 2008 I got a S-510 from PA . I still got gun and like someone mentioned here every oring did last over 10 yrs very reliable , I have installed a regulator  in mine and it is great shooter as well I keep them .

    I personally will take accuracy over power any day. Power is only as good as far as it is accurate. Finding that balance of accuracy and power…..that sweet spot is where its at. I would love to have an Air Arms. I just think they are beautifully made rifles and AA has a very solid reputation. I just don't know that I would really pull the trigger on one when cost vs. performance is taken into account verses other manufacturers offerings on the market today.

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    jps2486
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    HWs and AAs are fine, high quality rifles.  In .177, I'm sure they are used in FT competiion a lot.  Being set at that power limit negates the need for adjustability like some of the other tinker toys.

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    Vana2
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    IMHO, There is absolutely nothing wrong with the HW and AA rifles!!

    Beautifully engineered and finished; plenty of power; ergonomics are great; triggers are awesome and they are superbly accurate – they just don't meet the North American idea that major FPE is the only way to go.

    I have two FAC power level HW100 rifles that I am extremely fond of – my.177 (tuned down to 950 fps) for target shooting and plinking and my .22 is my go-to general shooting, plinking, pesting, hunting, walkabout rifle. Everyone who has tried my Weihrauchs have been impressed, they are very pleasant rifles to shoot.

    I have a TX200 that is great in every way and if I had to find a fault in it I would say that it is too heavy to hunt with. The flip side of that is that for off hand target and general plinking it is a very accurate stable rifle to shoot. Again, lots of power in the FAC version, I have swapped out the heavy spring in favor of a 12 fpe kit and it is light cocking and pleasant to shoot.

    I am currently getting a FX Impact to explore slug shooting but my next rifle will likely be a .22 caliber AA S510 as the one I have had a chance to shoot is overall a very nice rifle to shoot and extremely accurate to boot.

    Anybody who enjoys airguns should jump on a chance to shoot a AA or HW PCP if they get it – it is sure to bring a smile to their face!

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    TiredRooster
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    The AA S510 is a gorgeous rifle. I have thought the S510 Carbine would be one I would love to have in the arsenal. They just seem to have a low shot count in the FAC regulated model though.

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    bdzjlz
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    Motorhead just tuned and installed regulators in two of my AA S510 FAC rifles that are each close to two decades old.  The first work really ever done to them.  With HUMA regulators, I am getting 74 shots, at an average of 828 FPS in .22 with the 15.89 grain HADES, producing 24.19 Fpe, before it drops off of the regulator.  At 50 yards, will group +/- 3/4 for 10 shot groups, 3/8” at 20 yards.  Smooth and buttery side lever action.  I rarely use the magazines, preferring the Rowland single shot adapter.  90 yards is the furthest outdoors distance I have available at home and it will group accurately enough to hit a 2” Spinner every shot.  As previously stated in this post, I have eight Airguns in my vault all of the way to 50 fpe plus but my AA rifles are among my favorites.’

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    stewie
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    The S510 carbine is indeed a sweet rifle: light weight, extremely accurate, and whisper soft with a Neil Clague moderator. AA rifles have superb fit and finish in my experience, in springers and pcps alike. Nothing against FX, of course.  If I needed another rifle, it might well be the Royale .25. I'm not a fan of the bottle, though. which is one of the reasons AA is so appealing to me. We've got great choices all around.  

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    Avra
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    spysir

    Nothing.    Esp. the AA's , fit finish performance & reliability. IInternal QC that allows seals/orings to last 10 years.  HW's can be a pain to work on and originally needed some massaging (10ish yrs ago, dont know now).  

     Respected and popular around the world except primarily in the US  which is more a statement on the US consumers than the rifles. NOT the latest greatest most promoted. lacks every possible external "tuning" adjustment which the vast majority of US folks will never use more than once (instead of an out of the box optimized rifle they could just shoot) and really dont understand -knobs are adjustments not tunes-.  

     Really nice thing about most folks desire for an "Influencer" airgun is the used market!

     

    John

     

     

    +1 about the AA

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    Avra
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    So…long story short…

    Not seeing a lot of posts about certain brands or models doesn't always mean that there's something wrong with them.

    It might also be a matter of fashion, marketing or other factors that shape our preferences long different periods of time!

    Having said that, I own a regulated AA s510 rifle wich is 5 years old and VERY reliable (never had a single issue with it).

    A couple of years ago, I was ready to sell it but kept it because it was too beautiful to give it away.

    I did the right thing because a few months ago my very personal priorities changed again and rediscovered the joy to turn the gun into low power.

    By using it's transfer port flow knob (a matter of a split second) I can have tons of endless plinking fun!

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