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What’s the difference?

Forums PCP Airguns PCP Airgun – Discussion What’s the difference?

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    bubblerboy64
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +49

    Like many forum members I’ve been watching Bob’s long range videos and the results of the recent competitions which leads me to ask what does the FX impact have that others do not?  

    From my limited understanding the basic components seem similar so what’s allowing the impact and other FX models to perform at 100 yards and beyond?  

    I understand slugs and their advantages but clearly there is more going on then slugs and slow twist barrels.  Seems like we have a 223 going up against a 308 in some situations How so ? And what can we expect from the competition? John H 

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    Bob_O
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +109

    Well, I can only speak to the Impact as I don't have any experience with other brands.  

    The three big things are:

    1. Ease of adjusting power output.

    2. Ease of harmonic tuning.

    3. Barrel (liner) designed to shoot slugs.

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    bubblerboy64
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +49

    Bob. Lots of questions and I will be talking to Ken Hicks next week. 

    The harmonic tuning?   Typically with rimfires that was accomplished with a end of the barrel device .  How are you tuning the air gun just minor changes in regulator and hammer spring adjustments? 

    Also liners? Isn’t a barrel a barrel?  A liner is a barrel or not?   My guns have barrels and shrouds.  Impact different ?

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    Bob_O
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +109

    Valve Adjuster for harmonic fine tuning.

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    deke
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +12

    The elephant in the room is Fredrik Axelsson's barrel making technology and the inherent advantage of externally pressing the smooth twist into the liner. Making major or minor tweaks in twist rates, internal dimensions and diameters.or how firmly or gently a projectile makes contact with the barrel. The stroke of genius was the ability to make these changes external to the barrel rather than the internal requirement of hammer forged or button cut conventional barrels. It greatly simplifies R&D as well as manufacturing.

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    bubblerboy64
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +49

    Thanks SO much. That really covered the subject well.   I even understood a fair amount of it.   And my experience is pretty similar .  My guns shoot great at 50 yards if there is no wind but really drop off past 75 especially if it’s windy 

    My shooting is not as far BUT I’m not dropping pigeons cleanly which is probably shot placement and terminal performance.   

    On any subject you don’t learn it all on the first day and goals and expectations change.  

    Thanks to you guys who are doing the R&D 

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    Bob_O
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +109

    Questions are good bb.

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    bucketboy
    Participant
    Member
    United Kingdom
    Accuracy: +30

    bubblerboy64

    Like many forum members I’ve been watching Bob’s long range videos and the results of the recent competitions which leads me to ask what does the FX impact have that others do not?  

    From my limited understanding the basic components seem similar so what’s allowing the impact and other FX models to perform at 100 yards and beyond?  

     

    Honestly, 

    There are plenty of airguns that are equally as accurate, the only difference  is fx heavily sponsor YouTuberer and competition, little wonder they then do well in competitions that favour their design (speed shooting and extreme benchrest) 

    it is true the the x liner is easier to make (cheaper too but still sell for the same) simpler to alter twist rate, rifling depth choke length and that the slug liner really aids longer distances shooting , this is a lead that fx have over other manufacturers but the same barrel fitted to one of the other brands of airgun would work just as well.  In addition, the design of the impact lends itself to longer barrels without sacrificing length and offering good support to the barrel. Also, the bullpup configuration has the scope sitting higher than on more traditional guns, this extra height helps keeping the trajectory flatter at longer ranges.

    There are some other innovative ideas on the impact, externally adjustable reg, hammer load and valve bumper that aid tuning the gun to get the most from it but there are some bad ideas too. the valve stem is to heavy, the hammer bumper o ring is prone to failure as it the pellet probe and the countless o rings.

     

    i have an impact 2 on order, I also have 1/2 dozen high end airguns, I am hoping the impact is going to be good, I doubt if it can be more accurate than my other guns and if I were only allowed to keep one, it wouldn’t be the impact..

     

     

    Bb

     

     

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    2manyAirGunz
    Spectator
    Spectator
    Accuracy: +42

    "…if I were only allowed to keep one, it wouldn’t be the impact…"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    So you already own an FX Impact? And the Impact MKII will be your second Impact?

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    Centercut
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +185

    Agree with BucketBoy, FX has been specifically concentrating on slugs the past year or two, probably longer in development. One thing to think of is the sheer volume of guns sold, and the sheer number of posts on forums, and videos on YouTube. 

    So I think of it like this, it we have 20 Impacts for every EDgun (or an even higher ratio), we're obviously going to hear 20 (or more) times as much about shooting slugs with an airgun with an Impact than we will with an EDgun (could be Taipan or Cricket, but I'm using EDgun).  This is despite the fact that the EDguns have a 1:16 LW barrel made to Ed's specs that shoot slugs very well, and that EDguns (especially the R5 versions) are capable of as much power as an Impact (or more). Even my R3 Long with a minor tune (hammer weight, power plenum and Huma reg ($115) can shoot 26 or 28 grain slugs at over 950 FPS.  I'm pretty sure the R5 Super Magnums can reach that with an insanely low reg pressure, like 110 to 115 bar, so very much gas left in the tank for higher speeds or heavier slugs if desired. Easy to maintain, east to service, easy to tune… and Bulletproof.  

    So despite this fact, we don't see it much solely due to the sheer volume of Impacts compared to EDguns, and the fact that Ed doesn't sponsor anyone to shoot his guns in competition, so we don't hear about it much. 

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Centercut.
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    bucketboy
    Participant
    Member
    United Kingdom
    Accuracy: +30

    2manyAirGunz

    "…if I were only allowed to keep one, it wouldn’t be the impact…"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    So you already own an FX Impact? And the Impact MKII will be your second Impact?

    No, it will be my first impact, and no I wouldn’t have it as my only gun, why would I? Its not capable of the same power as I can get out of some of mine, not as easy to service, spares are stupidly expensive, it can’t be more accurate and let’s be honest, it is pig ugly.

     

    Bb

     

     

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    boscoebrea
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +29

    OK,Why get it then…because you do not have one right?

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    bubblerboy64
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +49

    So centercut.  There's more then one good steak ?  Sorry I couldn't resist.  Bubblerboy64 comes from my high school foot ball team. I lived in the town of Boiling Springs Pa graduated high school 1964 ( I know right after the civil war) They called us the bubblers — back onto the subject. 

    I've been into the airgun stuff all my life and owned an early PCP back I think ??? mid to late nineties .   I do not remember who made that gun.   I might have been a daystate just not sure.  Sold it because it was heavy and really didn't do anything that a springer wouldn't do for me at the time.  Theoben was big then and this was not a theoben.  I was heavy into metallic silhouette competition but never did get beyond middle of the hunt in scores shot.   Most difficult shooting game that I am aware of.  I got great satisfaction in doing that and I was pretty regular at it for 25 years.  

    I digress.  I got into the air rifles pretty heavy in Jan 2018 mainly because I can shoot them at the house.  Started with a non regulated Wolverine and traded to a Red Wolf (which frankly I like as well as anything I own).  Got into hunting pigeons at a couple local farmers and found I was able to hit the pigeons out to 65/70 yards but wasn't dropping them dead.  Too many flew off or landed wounded.  Shot placement and terminal ballistics.  

    Bout that time I start following along with some of the long range stuff that Bob O and others are doing.   Decided to buy a Cricket in 25 and Charlie Frear set it up and it shoots great and hits harder then the Red Wolf but again I am still not dropping the pigeons every time.  

    Got out west and had to stop at AOA with the intentions of buying a Red Wolf HP and ended up buying a Brocock Bantam Sniper HP mag. 22 cal.  again another real nice gun.  Well made but it's got one long barrel on it and it's not a bit better in accuracy and down range performance then the cricket.  (Might not be a fair apple to apples comparison it wasn't tuned ).  

    So what I'm after is a gun that shoots super to 100 yards.  I listen to the two video's that Bob posted and Matt's explanation of the advantages of slugs and slug barrels makes sense to me.  You are dealing with BC.  I own several anschutz 22 rimfire but from experience I know there are others that probably shoot as well and cost less.  Nothing that I've seen can match the Anschutz in combining accuracy and pure prettiness.  I'm looking for some of that in the air rifle.  But performance is the most important.  So the FX impact may or may not be the ticket.  I sense it's some what of a work in progress (maybe they all are probably so) but I give FX credit for the R&D.  When I bought the Brocock I questioned the sales staff about FX because it was also on my short list.  AOA and FX may not be a match ?? 

    Ken Hicks has promised to give me some time next week and we'll talk. 

    So much to consider.  I DO NOT want to be launching heavy slugs at rimfire velocities but I'd like to extend my range at least a little and improve my accuracy so that I can place the shot consistently and be as assured as possible that I will drop the birds DEAD.  

    No perfect gun and I'm not expecting that.  

      

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    MichaelinAZ
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: -1

    I like the FX ImpactX. It is my second airgun. Bought it for quiet killing of backyard pests. Quieter and safer than suppressed firearms for this application. Just wish the trigger was better and as adjustable for travel and weight as my first airgun: AA TX200 MKIII.

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    Neomorphy
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +2

    Being a fanatic in multiple hobbies and being somewhat old, I have noticed that there is a trend that transcends multiple disciplines.

     

    1) When you own a a ridiculously large number of items in your collection, you probably haven't found that right item that satisfies your need. Because when you find it, the others suck and you're now in love with something that's awesome.

     

    2) There are always those that insist on bucking the trend. That's fine if you're a kid, but eventually you mature and realize "Wow, most of these suck, and I'm not afraid to say it". If you own a Mustang, a Corvette, and a Charger and insist they compete with a Ferrari, Bugatti, etc, you're insane. They may be fun cars and maybe it doesn't matter as much on an American highway, but if someone offered me a choice between a Bugatti and a Mustang (with free maintenance), I'll take the Bugatti! If you told me you had both a Mustang and a Bugatti, and preferred the Mustang, I'd call you a lying sack of s..t! And if you own every sports car ever made except one high end one, you're an idiot.

     

    3) I don't know why, but for some reason, there's no shortage of people claiming that their slingshot is more accurate than a laser. You're not fooling anyone, please, stop telling me that your Daisy red rider can out shoot a Barrett M82 sniper rifle. Either your shooting technique is strange or you're lying.

     

    I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying what others are too polite to say, and that is, stop saying that everything is just as good as X, because they're not. There are always top tier products, get over it.

     

     

    Maybe you can play the Latvian Gambit as good as you play the Sicilian Defence. That doesn't mean that they are equal, it means you suck at Chess.

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Neomorphy.
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    Centercut
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +185

    Ahhhh, David…  Ferrari or Lamborghini? Titleist or Taylor Made? Rolex or Patek Phillippe? Blonde, Redhead, or Brunette? You imply that there is only one answer to your question, when in fact, depending on personal taste, there are many. Y and Z are in fact as good as X. You are however, entitled to your opinions..  Perhaps I’d play the Smith-Morra Gambit to counter your Sicilian Defense. 😉

    • This reply was modified 2 years ago by  Centercut.
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    oldsparky
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +15

    Interesting reading. As I read something that comes to mind. We want to stretch the distance out with a limited power plant so we think about a projectile with a higher B.C the projectile that cuts through the air best usually isn't the best hunting bullet or pellet. I am glad to read about the guys trying get as much as they can out of these guns and projectiles. keep sharing. I love shooting in the back yard and even in the house.

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    davidsng
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +47

    Centercut

    Agree with BucketBoy, FX has been specifically concentrating on slugs the past year or two, probably longer in development. One thing to think of is the sheer volume of guns sold, and the sheer number of posts on forums, and videos on YouTube. 

    So I think of it like this, it we have 20 Impacts for every EDgun (or an even higher ratio), we're obviously going to hear 20 (or more) times as much about shooting slugs with an airgun with an Impact than we will with an EDgun (could be Taipan or Cricket, but I'm using EDgun).  This is despite the fact that the EDguns have a 1:16 LW barrel made to Ed's specs that shoot slugs very well, and that EDguns (especially the R5 versions) are capable of as much power as an Impact (or more). Even my R3 Long with a minor tune (hammer weight, power plenum and Huma reg ($115) can shoot 26 or 28 grain slugs at over 950 FPS.  I'm pretty sure the R5 Super Magnums can reach that with an insanely low reg pressure, like 110 to 115 bar, so very much gas left in the tank for higher speeds or heavier slugs if desired. Easy to maintain, east to service, easy to tune… and Bulletproof.  

    So despite this fact, we don't see it much solely due to the sheer volume of Impacts compared to EDguns, and the fact that Ed doesn't sponsor anyone to shoot his guns in competition, so we don't hear about it much. 

    Amen.

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    knifemaker
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +24

    I'll take a nice Impact, or the new Raptor if it pans out, and a good Panerai please. ;<)

     

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    Spray1Mark
    Participant
    Member
    United Kingdom
    Accuracy: +30

    deke

    The elephant in the room is Fredrik Axelsson's barrel making technology and the inherent advantage of externally pressing the smooth twist into the liner. Making major or minor tweaks in twist rates, internal dimensions and diameters.or how firmly or gently a projectile makes contact with the barrel. The stroke of genius was the ability to make these changes external to the barrel rather than the internal requirement of hammer forged or button cut conventional barrels. It greatly simplifies R&D as well as manufacturing.

    It wasnt FX's idea, the technology was first co-developed with Daystate after Ben Taylor invented it, Daystate decided not to adopt the process and FX grabbed it. FX then I agree took it to the level it is at now.

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