What's really MOUSE FART quiet?

Hi Everyone, 

Am I the only one with a different definition of mouse fart quiet? A lot of moderators make my airguns quiet and backyard friendly, but I can still definitely hear it... 

I'm trying to make my PP700 and 1701P really MOUST FART quiet to the point that people don't know I'm shooting it..... is that even possible? I've tried the Donny FL Sumo, Koi, Tanto, Ronin, Huggett Mini Magna and Atom and the quietest so far for both guns is the koi..... but I still wouldn't call it mouse fart quiet. What do y'all think? 
 
No, you are not the only one defining mouse far as near silent...

I have personally experience pcp's that were so quiet, all you heared was the firing mechanisme, and not the blast, but these were all guns with good regulators set at relative low pressure (<120 bars) large moderators or shroud + moderator, longer barrels, and with relative low fpe (18gr @ 850fps)... 

There is something strangely satisfying in slinging lead without sound 😜
 
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Hello fellow silence advocates...

The attached is the best possible comparison of the effectiveness of your personal sound moderation efforts.

1) Place yourself ten feet from your PC and remotely activate the attached. LISTEN carefully, 

2) Have someone fire your pcp...then repeat this comparison several times to achieve an accurate understanding of mouse fart quiet.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROpL_Gzb0JU





Regards to all....

Kindly 'Ol Uncle Hoot
 
I have several PCP rifles and there are lots of variables but one constant is as you increase the velocity you increase the report.
My Red Wolf is clearly the quietest at reasonable velocities. I believe that the electronics meters the air most efficiently. The impact is pretty loud but it’s slinging the slugs at higher velocities and it’s also not giving nearly the shots per refill. But it’s a killing machine on pigeons while with the red wolf I get to many fly offs. I don’t know how other guns shoot but the Red Wolf on low power is the quietest I’ve found. Velocity has the advantage of flattening the trajectory Which gets to be important when shooting beyond 50 yards. I shoot starlings off a silo at 65 yards and depending on the position of the starling on the silo it makes a difference. If he’s right up front I can hold dead on. If he’s off to the side and back a little have to compensate a little. Wind? Slugs help but variable wind can make shots at 65 really challenging. Starlings don’t give you many tries 
 
You are trying to make a pistol mouse fart which is pretty hard to go mouse fart since pistol are usually louder. Try a rifle. Also power matters. Higher power will make more noise no matter what LDC you put on it. I achieve mouse fart with a marauder .177 with a depinger and any LDC on it and shooting 500fps with 10gr pellets. It will be so quiet no one will notice u are shooting anything. probably more quiet than a real mouse farting.
 
🔶 Uncle Hoot,

thank you for enlightening us all and lightening the mood in these dark times — corona pandemia upon us 🙄 — and carefully listening anti-gun neighbors upon us.... 😖

I had a problem with the virtual mouse in the video, though. I was just getting ready to test my PP700 at 13.7FPE against the mouse fart... — when my virtual cat came and ate the mouse! 🤦🏻‍♂️ 





🔶 Pizzaman,

I'm just now eating what one of your colleagues has brought to my house, yummi!

I'm with you in your quest of quieting your pistols, as they are ideal urban pesting tools.



I have tried many different tunes with my .22cal PP700S-A, and I'm still learning about how to play the PCP game.... Here are my observations (interpreted through what I read on the forums [thank you, rsterne [Bob Sterne] at GTA!]). 

Please, correct me if I got this wrong! 😄





🔶 (1)

The biggest challenge to quiet a pistol is that we want to keep it short, small, and light (the opposite of big silencers) — otherwise, why not just use a rifle?!

But you are already fine with using a big silencer, so far so good.





🔶 (2)

Of course: Generally, less muzzle energy, and a smaller caliber reduce loudness, and silencers that are the same caliber as the barrel rather than larger.

However, DonnyFl recommended in a personal email the .25cal Sumo for the .22cal PP700 — as that was his choice for his personal gun. The added loudness is supposedly not very much more (it's just one caliber larger) — and an oversize reduces the danger of pellet clipping greatly, especially with shrouded guns.





🔶 (3)

I have a Silencer Specs List with 50 models to drool over (attached below). However, mrbulk's testing (over at GTA) seems to point to the following conclusions:

For midpowered and shrouded PCP's most silencers will do a pretty good job, with only small differences between them! 

But if the gun is high powered, or not shrouded, the silencer has to do a lot more work, and that is when more volume of the can will make a big difference.

Our PP700 (either W or S-A model) does not have much of a shroud, but it's at least low powered.... 





🔶 (4)

And now to an important factor that is easily overlooked: the kind of tune you are using. I could get the same power (12FPE) using a high regulator setpoint (REG 100) with a low hammer tenstion spring setting (HST 1.4) — or a low REG (85) with a high HST (1.625). The first tune will be quieter than the second tune.



Here are some real life numbers for the following gun/pellet:

▪Gun: Artemis PP700S-A .22cal w/ Huma and w/ DonnyFl Sumo .25cal

▪Pellet: H&N Sniper Light 14gr



🔸Tune #1 (cf. the first HST string chart attached below): 

5% MV below the "knee" [the max. velocity at this REG/HST setting] = 627fps (12.2FPE)

REG 85bar | HST 1.625 turns out

Loudeness: Rather LOUD! I had to stop sniping.

Discussion: 5% MV below the knee are are middle ground to get the most power with the most shots (efficiency) (Bob Sterne). 





🔸Tune #2 (second HST string chart)

10% MV below the knee = 665fps (13.7FPE)

REG 130bar | HST 0.25 turns out

Loudeness: Rather quiet — though not mousefart.... This is my current tune.

Discussion: 10% below the knee are more efficient than 5% (more shots), but produce less power.

10% make the velocity slightly creep up throughout the regulated shot string.

10% are better than 5% for quieting the gun: 10% make the hammer slap the valve open for a shorter time than 5% because the pressure (REG setting) is so high that no more is needed. This results in shorter but more powerful sips of air when compared to a 5% setting producing the same amount of power, where the valve stays open for longer and the necessary air takes more time to send the pellet on its way.





🔸Tune #3 (second chart)

Incidentially, I get more power with the Tune #2 than with Tune #1, with less loudness.

Now, I could increase the HST further to get the MV to 16% below the knee (HST 0.5625), which would give me 621fps (12FPE), the same as in Tune #1.

However, I fear that at 16% the velocity variations between shots will be much larger, and the velocity creep-up as well.

Loudness: Probably quieter than Tune #2 (and #1, of course).




🔸Tune #4 (third chart)

So, to further reduce loudness, I could get the gun from 14FPE down to say 12FPE.

For that I'd find a regulator setting, where the knee is 10% above my desired velocity (in this case, for 12FPE that'd be 620fps).

The third HST string chart has the reg at 100bar. The knee is at 685fps. 10% below that is 616fps. And this is 12FPE (11.8). So:

10% MV below the knee = 616fps (11.8FPE)

REG 100bar | HST 1.4 turns out

Loudness: Probably quieter than Tune #3 and #2 (and #1, of course). 😊

➔ I'd like to try this tune — next time the o-ring in the entrance valve goes out yet again....





What are your perspectives on this? Do I understand this correctly?

What do you suggest?



Matthias 😊



❌ Attachment Silencer Specs Table:

download.png
View attachment SILENCER Specs Table. 20. 2020-10. TABLE.1606954154.pdf



❌ FIRST HST String Chart:

PP700. REG 085. HST String. SnipL1. 2020-02-25. 03 3 3.1606954321.jpg




❌ SECOND HST String Chart:

PP700. REG 130, Barr2. HST String. SnipL1. 2020-11-28. 01.1606954396.jpg




❌ THIRD HST String Chart:

PP700. REG 100. HST String. SnipL1. 2020-02-22 7 7.1606954444.jpg





 
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Mousefart sounds exactly like the gun is completely degassed out of air when you pull the trigger just goes click and hear the hammer hit the valve with no ping.

A typical sound when shooting a PCP that AZ built a custom and caliber specific shroud exactly concentric to the bore even if it's slightly off (not perfectly concentric) from the gun manufacturer.

It's like a 12fpe 177 Marauder or Crosman 1701P with a Donny Emperor or Huggett MAGNA (The BIG UN) attached or about 3x as quiet as a 12fpe 177 HW110 and about 5x as quiet as a 177 Marauder straight out of the box.

You really think your gun is either broken like though the gun did not shoot or was completely out if aur when you pulled the trigger.

You as the shooter won't hear any sound besides a click and the pellet striking the target.