What are the benefits of the Brocock/Daystate/FX type magazines?

Forums PCP Airguns What are the benefits of the Brocock/Daystate/FX type magazines?

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    allan_wind
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    I just watched the AOA video on how to load the new Daystate magazine, and while the process is not as involved as the (previous?) FX Impact magazine, I am curious what's the technical benefit of these more complicated type of magazines?  With complicated I mean compared to the Kalibr/Taipan/Weihrauch style magazines that have no moving parts other than an o-ring.  It looks like FX use that simple type of magazine on the Wildcat and older guns too (Cyclone, Cutlas, Ranchere, Verminator etc).

    • This topic was modified 1 month ago by allan_wind.
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    Emu
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    Inside a closed magazine the pellet should have less chance to get whatever material that could afect the fly.

    In an open magazine the chance is always there.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Emu.
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    elh0102
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    I think the  chance of pellets picking up any harmful material in an open Taipan style magazine is in the category of something I'm not going to worry about. IMO, these spring loaded magazine designs are terrible. Sam Colt designed a revolver cylinder that is mechanically rotated with great precision. He might not have been the first with the design, but it has carried on for generations without the help of less precise spring loaded gizmos. Designs like the Taipan and Weihrauch are essentially rotating single shot trays, and we need more of them.

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    Rodeo
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    The magazine indexes to the next pellet either by itself (spring loaded) or by a mechanism built into the rifle.   Each has pros and cons.  Spring loaded mags cost more but have fewer moving parts.  Mags like those for like Wildcat, Hatsan and Taipan are generally cheaper and simpler in design but require more moving parts in the rifle.  The indexing of these mags can also add extra drag to the cocking cycle.

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    DanielL
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    I’d like to see an enclosed tray style magazine with an external rotating mechanism instead of springs.  While I like simple open magazines they don’t hold all forms of ammo securely…particularly slugs.  They do very poorly in big bores because of the recoil.

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    cea1960
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    With more manufacturers producing slugs, someone will come out with an air rifle designed solely for slugs, and maybe it will have a spring loaded, bottom fed magazine like a powder burner.

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    SDellinger
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    The open mags I've used let you shoot on an empty spot. The FX and Marauder mags prevent that from happening.

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    HeyU
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    I'd like to hear a legitimate explanation for why their mags (FX) cost TWICE as much, even over Weihrauch which makes a quality product made of steel not plastic. Please, no really please give us a legitimate,plauseable reason why ( 100% ) increase in cost is warranted for a PLASTIC product over a Weihrauch precision steel magazine. I don't buy the hype and will look elsewhere.I don't like the hustle never had. I am not affiliated with Weihrauch nor do I own a Weihrauch air rifle. I just use them as an example. But I do own the FX DreamLine Classic. Sry FX, I just get the feeling I'm being hustled. If you don't understand (hustled) look it up.

     

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    tor47
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    Would think the main advantage is that you do not need an indexing mechanism built into the rifle 

     

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    edosan
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    if you talk about a donno 10 shot mag, not much benefit.

    But when you talk about a 19-28 shot mag, big difference. Much more easy to load. Once you get use to a 28 shot mag, is kind of hard to go back.

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    elh0102
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    tor47

    Would think the main advantage is that you do not need an indexing mechanism built into the rifle 

     

    Yes, that is an obvious difference. I guess the question is, which is more likely  to give alignment/accuracy issues? My experience has been totally favorable with the Taipan style magazines that do not include springs. I've also had good luck with FX mags, which are spring loaded.  Your point is well taken, as I'd rather replace or repair a mag, as opposed to having a mechanical rifle issue. I'm sure my sample is not statistically meaningful, but I have had accuracy issues with mags used in Daystate, Brocock, and RAW rifles, and no issues with FX and Taipan. Obviously, good performance can be achieved with either design. Part of the answer may be, the makers assume that bench and target shooting will be done with single loading anyway, and they just don't spend much time and money on the design and testing of their magazines. 

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    elh0102
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    HeyU

    I'd like to hear a legitimate explanation for why their mags (FX) cost TWICE as much, even over Weihrauch which makes a quality product made of steel not plastic. Please, no really please give us a legitimate,plauseable reason why ( 100% ) increase in cost is warranted for a PLASTIC product over a Weihrauch precision steel magazine. I don't buy the hype and will look elsewhere.I don't like the hustle never had. I am not affiliated with Weihrauch nor do I own a Weihrauch air rifle. I just use them as an example. But I do own the FX DreamLine Classic. Sry FX, I just get the feeling I'm being hustled. If you don't  understand (hustled) look it up.

     

    Ha! I'll share an experience than might be similar. I was in the Porsche dealership a few years back buying a part. As usual, the price was ridiculous, and I asked the counter guy how Porsche could justify such a price. His response, "well, they figure Porsche owners will pay anything we charge!"  I expect the owner would have fired him on the sport had he heard it. Profit margins are often extremely high on parts and accessories. Part of it has to do with the handling costs associated with such a small ticket item, but I think the Porsche parts guy hit it on head.

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    wahoowad
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    I have both the basic HW open magazine and the spring-loaded Brocock/Daystate magazine. I would be happier with the less expensive HW style. I felt like I was being being bled when I bought my spare Brocock magazine. And felt worse when I had to open it up months later to address an indexing issue it had from being so complicated. I think something designed to be removed/reinserted frequently should have less moving parts.

    That said, we pay it so they keep increasing the price. Except that Neilson slug guy. He just lowered his price on many things because he improved his manufacturing process. Doubt we'll see that from any of our PCP makers even though their has been a revolution in CAD design and CNC manufacturing the past 5 years.

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    tor47
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    There is probably advantage, and disadvantage in both designs. To much spring force on a self indexing mag, might damage small soft pellets like .177.  The self indexing mags might rattle a little. Rotary mags might be easier to load for some. But that is also depending on how they are inserted into the gun. I have read some have issues with some slugs thumbling in a self indexing mag. That might not happen in a rotary mag? 

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    ctshooter
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    One key difference I see between the standard revolver style mag and the self-indexing is that it is easier to build in anti-double feed into the revolver style. I have always preferred the revolver mag on my FX Ranchero and Veteran to any self indexing mag – with pellets at least that is. 

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