Weary of the reviewer cynics

Forums General Discussion Weary of the reviewer cynics

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    Hmm not really, picture yourself as a manufacturer or airgun retailer. Send the guy with a ton of followers a off the shelve item or make sure he gets a flawless item that he will like for sure and drive sales on it.

    Its not rocket science :) 

     

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    “Saltlake58”Believe what you want, but before you claim corruption and state, “And that’s a fact”, you might want to have evidence of the fact. 

    
I work in retail and I do follow tests of various products, just in my field two major manufacturers got caught last year with sending in a diffrent product for review than the one customers can buy. 

    But yea feel free to keep those blinds over your eyes. Only one that will “suffer” from that is you. 

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    Please provide the evidence.  All anyone posts are claims.  I’m an auditor, I work from evidence.  We live in the internet age, and I doubt that there is a lack of evidence available to all on the two instances you refer to.  

    Please post links or some kind of evidence!  Lack of evidence is not evidence.  Show the world how this is done so we can be better educated.  Claims without evidence are just claims.

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    “Just understand they are being PAID for their endorsement then ask yourself would they recommend the product without being paid?”

    Why such negative assumptions?  Reviewers like Ted didn’t get paid in the beginning, they were just trying to build a YouTube channel following by reviewing their equipment along with some hunting.  So, you automatically assume they are getting paid by the vendor?  Perhaps payment is that they get to keep some equipment, then again, Ted’s mentioned that he has to send the good stuff back, and several mentioned they BOUGHT the guns after the reviews were over.

    Come on folks, to claim someone reviews and purposely reviews positively on a POS gun because they get paid (and how much do they get paid if they do??)

    Come on, provide some evidence. There’s a lot of negative banter here, lets see some evidence and put this to bed one way or the other.  Only problem is, so far, all we get is claims from the negative crowd, without evidence.  Sort of like the conspiracy theorists that claim, no evidence is evidence that this or that is happening.

    Got news for you, lack of evidence isn’t evidence.  Give me something to work with here.  I like to come into a situation assuming positive, and until you can prove something, I choose to do so.

     

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Dejalook guys reviewers like ted wont ever have any idea how off the shelf products works, they get cherry picked stuff and thats a FACT. 

    This is NOT a fact, & you have no proof. I on the other hand was present was FX brought all the parts & pieces to build the very first impacts. Ted’s, mine, & about 5 others. The very first Impacts had a few different barrels. Some longer with fixed shrouds, the others with telescopic shrouds.

    When I spoke to Ted @ EBR 2016 he was still using his original Impact. I don’t see how this gun could possibly have been blueprinted when it arrived in hundreds of pieces.

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    “Michael”

    “Deja”look guys reviewers like ted wont ever have any idea how off the shelf products works, they get cherry picked stuff and thats a FACT. 

     

    This is NOT a fact, & you have no proof. 
     

    
Was more pointing towards general reviews by magazine’s and other media. Just brought up ted since people where talking about him. 
    That media get cherry picked stuff is in sure a fact. Talking about other products than just air rifles.

    Overall scumbag behaviour is rampart in lots of different fields, smart phones getting overclocked during benchmark programs, last years vw doing the same thing for their engines during fuel efficiency testing.

     

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    Willie14228
    Participant
    Member

    Here is a fact that no one can deny
    Unfortunately we have learned that what’s put on the internet is NOT always the truth and the result is we get to the point that we don’t trust what is posted.
    Another FACT is a happy Customer is much less apt to post than an unsatisfied Customer which means we see all the complaints but little of the thumbs up.
    ANY massed produced product line is going to have flaws popup there is no help for that simply because we are humans and are ourselves flawed.
    Here is a simple rule of thumb I like to use for any reviewer
    I try to avoid reviews coming from a seller or at least view the review as a sales pitch. I read/watch reviews from multiple perspectives, competition shooters vs hunting vs simple plinking and so on. Each will look at the same product and see what interests them the most.
    I use forums like AGN and search threads about a product, what are the gripes what are the comments.
    Another lesson I have learned is if it’s a hot brand new product it’s most likely going to have some small bugs that didn’t pop up during beta tests Expect it if that is going to be an issue then wait a few months so those bugs and kinks can get worked out
    We all will have favorites just like Ford, Chevy, Dodge many a cross looks I’ve earned for telling a Harley Davidson in the back of a Ford truck joke. Reviewers are no different they are going to have favorites.
    Now I will say this I have worked for assembly line companies and YES, in some cases we have had production orders marked SAMPLES or ShowRoom and when that order goes down the line every station is expected to double and triple check quality control one top of normal quality control checks.
    It’s simple logic that a company wants to put it’s best foot forward when they present a product to the public.

    Is this the reviewers fault of course not.

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    Nueces
    Participant
    Member

    Personally I follow my fave airgun god’s word as gospel nowadays.  I don’t buy everything he sells but that’s mostly a lack of funds problem %^)

    I just finished up arguing with him in my head for over a week.  Ended up going with his latest recommendation for what I wanted.  But I learn a lot trying to prove him wrong.  %^)

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    In a way this thread is kind of humorous.  

    It seems the negative people here are either incredibly jealous of people that get to shoot all types of airguns, or projecting what they would on the reviewers and then getting angry when the reviewer actually gets benefit from doing the review.

    Oh well, so much fun, but time to move to another thread.  Can’t talk to the folks that have already decided life is against them.  Already made up their minds.

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    “Saltlake58”It seems the negative people here are either incredibly jealous of people that get to shoot all types of airguns, or projecting what they would on the reviewers and then getting angry when the reviewer actually gets benefit from doing the review.
    Oh well, so much fun, but time to move to another thread.  Can’t talk to the folks that have already decided life is against them.  Already made up their minds.

    
Is there really people that are angry at the reviewers? Isn’t most off just saying that you should take the reviews with a grain of salt.

    Making a good video takes a lot of work, time and some skill. Lets not forget the proper video rendering gear and cameras. 

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    Jonah
    Participant
    Member

    We’ve beat this horse to death!  Let it rest in peace!

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    zebra
    Participant
    Member

    “Saltlake58”If a reviewer must be completely independent, how would you propose that the reviewer fund their hobby that they make so much on?  Guys like Ted have real jobs and real families.  If you expect them to cater to completely inane requirements from armchair quarterbacks, you’ll be sadly disappointed.

    I for one, don’t really care if Ted or other reviewers receive something for the reviews.  They do us all a service by spending their time and effort in getting the material to review, and passing the information along to us.

    Really, how do you really expect Ted to review an FX Impact ($1,899 at AOA) and a fancy scope ($500 range typically) on a normal human’s budget (with family coming first I might add)

    So far as I’m concerned, if you want to whine about the “Sales People” that get at most a pittance for reviewing this stuff, please expect negative comments coming right back at ya.

    If you have constructive comments about the gun, scope, or other accouterments being reviewed, happy to listen.

     

    Perhaps the disconnect is in what people view the purpose of a review to be. In my opinion, a review is someone spending time with a product and reporting on both it’s good and bad points so they can advise us if it’s something we should consider buying or avoiding completely. Part of the conclusion might be that, for the money, you would be better off considering some alternative products. 

    There was a time when professional reviewers worked for magazines or TV stations who paid their salaries and were funded through subscriptions or selling advertising etc. They were free to rate a product 9/10 or 4/10 based on it’s merits and they did just that. For the publications I trusted, I used that info to help inform my buying decisions. I also avoided products that got bad reviews. If a magazine started only giving good reviews, I would have stopped buying it. 

    If you switch out that formulae to what we are talking about here, where retailers and manufacturers fund the presentation of one of their products with a view to increasing their sales and effectively censoring any negative messaging, I would call that an advertisement and not a review. I can no longer use the info to make purchasing decisions because they aren’t able to tell me what they really think. 

    If a store sends “reviewer A” a Wildcat to review and he tells the public something like “this gun is ok but for the money you are better off buying a Vulcan or Mutant”, that store will stop sending them product to review. That effectively censors the truth.

    These days the importance of professional reviewers has diminished significantly for me. I no longer need to rely on them because, through the Internet, I have access to dozens or sometime hundreds or thousands of end user reviews through sites like this and others. I find tremendous value in reading the opinions of ten people just like me before I buy something. It’s even better than the independent pro reviewers from the old days. 

    So how do I expect current pro reviewers to fund their hobby? I don’t expect anything. I don’t really need them. For every pro reviewer there is usually a bunch of amateurs who bought the product and can’t wait to share their opinion. Isn’t that half the value of sites like this?

    That all seems fairly clear and logical to me. What I am not clear on is, for the people who don’t think a review needs to be independent, what do you see as the purpose of the review?

    The thing I am even less clear on is why, the fact that some people don’t have blind unconditional love for whoever the persons favorite reviewer happens to be, seems to bother them so much? It seems like a silly thing to become “weary” over. I can’t seem to find any strong feelings about the subject one way or the other.

    To me, it’s like listening to the “advise” of a sales associate in a clothes store. When they tell me I look great in the expensive one, I still ask for a mirror and my wife’s opinion. That doesn’t mean I have anything against the sales associate. I don’t begrudge them making a living. I might even appreciate their help. It’s just common sense to ask how someone is compensated and motivated before listening to their advise though. I believe that about all parts of life. 
     

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    Jonah said “We’ve beat this horse to death!  Let it rest in peace!”

    fully agree.

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    and I thought I was done on this subject:

    Bombaysap said, “I just can’t believe he didn’t have multiple cherry picked ( hummer ) barrels to choose from.”  You may believe what you wish, and I cannot change your opinion, Let me ask those of you that believe that testers have such advantages in shooting, please provide something other than “I believe” before denigrating the reputation of a person that does so much for the hobby.

    I now begin to understand Ted’s reluctance to participate directly on this forum.  Were I he, I would probably withdraw as he has.

    Bombaysap also said, “Now we are seeing companies privately going after posters that have had negative reviews. This is utterly ridiculous!”.

    Yes, this statement does seem utterly ridiculous!  Please, again, before besmirching a corporate reputations so broadly, provide something more than opinion.  That’s a serious accusation.  If it is true, I want to know.  I personally have not seen any instances of corporate shenanigans in this way.

    We have flogged this subject to death.  Neither the pro’s or con’s will change the opinions of the others.  

    We should let this dog lie.

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    I think how you missed that Bombaysap was just here trolling this forum. Posted a few troll threads, but i think he might be banned now. Atleast the threads are gone.

    No need to consider or give those threads and posts a reply.

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    zebra
    Participant
    Member

    “Saltlake58”

    I now begin to understand Ted’s reluctance to participate directly on this forum.  Were I he, I would probably withdraw as he has.

    We should let this dog lie.

    
More likely is that he doesn’t want to get hounded by a bunch of groupies who think they know him because they saw him on a YouTube video.

    Honestly… some people talk like celebrity stalkers about this stuff. 

    Anyone that does not want to participate in a discussion is free to go do something else but you can’t ramble on about your opinion and then tell everybody else to stop posting theirs just because they don’t agree.

    everyone thinks their opinion is more valid that others but you should still respect other people’s right to have one and voice it (especially if you expect them to listen to yours). 

     

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    Goodtogo
    Participant
    Member

    This thread is about “Weary of the reviewer cynics”. But I get amused even more at some that will post…………….. Oh you just spent $2,000 on that rifle and you could have spent $1,200 and it would have been better. Some just want to rain on others parade I guess?

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    JoeWayneRhea
    Participant
    Member

    Robert it’s guys like you that keep me coming to this forum. The guys who just seek out things to bitch and bellyache about give me the shits . Y’all let it go .It’s a fun forum about over priced BBguns :) It just ain’t that serious

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    LDM
    Participant
    Member

    I have always been perplexed by the Ted haters? I love the guy’s videos and have from his beginning. Remember the Edgun de-pinging video where he was in his pajamas or some such, and got a ton of crap about his attire? Anyway… I just see Ted as a very enthusiastic kid that loves his hobby, to the point he got to play with more and more toys… and we have all learned from his infectious tinkering. I use to spend a bunch of time on another Forum out there where Ted is seen as an evil Communist, bent dominating the world through FX propaganda. Anyway… my impression of Ted is;  he is a guy that loves to play with his “over priced BBguns” and never takes his hobby too seriously. 
    I got to play with my toys just now. I still feel a little silly, at 59, going out and shooting my pellet gun, but man I love it!

     

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member

    LDM Said, “I have always been perplexed by the Ted haters?”.
    Couldn’t agree more.  The amount of work he puts into the videos is incredible (I’ve tried, never been successful at things like that!)

    I’ve started following his lead and shooting at the local indoor range to improve my own accuracy.  The staff love it when something like a pellet gun comes in. LDM also said, “I got to play with my toys just now. I still feel a little silly, at 59, going out and shooting my pellet gun, but man I love it!”.  OK so I’m a spring chicken at 50, but couldn’t agree more.  Great fun no matter how you slice it.  When I retire, airgunning will be part of my life.  Besides as an airgunner, when I’m 90, the recoil won’t destroy my shoulder.

    Youtube channels like Ted’s holdover, Airarms hunting SA, Airgun hunter extreme, Hunters Vermine, and others provide that independent feel, where channels like OAO, Pyramyd Air, Airgun Depot, and American Airgunner, that you know are sponsored, give the sponsored information, but it’s still excellent information.

    I also use long range shooting channels (that’s where I found my current favorite scope) for information and technique.  The information is all over the place.

    Common thread here is that someone had to get off their posteriors and do it.  I respect that.

    It’s all information, and it all gives me hope that I can improve my skills and helps me find the next acquisition.

    All has it’s place, and I’m glad it’s out there.
     

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