We must teach the children

"kkarmical"

"oldspook"

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Regarding the gene pool comment I made, maybe it was too harsh. I guess one could call it a knee jerk reaction to what we see in the news every day. Clearly it feels better to believe the young man was suicidal rather than just arrogant and stupid. My experience tells me that there are a lot more arrogant and stupid people in general roaming the world today than there are suicidal ones. One thing though I have not seen yet is evidence as to what he was actually doing standing in the middle of a street with what appeared to be a weapon. Maybe with a few more facts we can decide that I really am just a heartless bastard.

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The news story I snagged the picture from says he called and reported himself, using the police to aide his suicide, thats already been made clear.

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No, that was made clear in the article which you didn't link. Let me go look for that since we are placing it in evidence now.

The article makes it clear that the young man called police at 03:30 AM and was apparently asking them to come check upon the welfare of an unarmed young man in the parking lot. Ok, it appears that he was suicidal. It looks like he did everything to commit suicide by cop that he could do. Right up to pointing what looked like a weapon at police officers in the dark while walking towards them.

So we have a kid who was suicidal and decided to use a couple of police officers to accomplish that. Lets talk about the people who failed that kid BEFORE he decided to do what he did. Why are we talking about the police officers?

Lets talk about the people who WERE entrusted with his well being for months and years before he made the choice that put him into contact with the law, the people like the Superintendent of Schools there who isn't vowing to find out what his people got wrong or who knows his mom and dad? Elsewhere I said that these kinds of incidents are just the obvious evidence of deeper societal ills. Nothing that I've seen here has dissuaded me from that position.

Every time the rest of the system fails and things wind up like this the first people blamed by educators and parents are the first responders who have to clean up the mess left by those who, had they been doing their jobs in the first place, would have had nobody to blame at all. That is the problem the OP was pointing at.

The idea that society is not providing the safety nets which catch these kinds of issues BEFORE they wind up in the middle of the street in a puddle of blood IS EXACTLY the original point. It's not the cops who failed here. No amount of training can prevent suicide by cop if a person is determined. That is the last line of defense. The first line of defense is consistently failing to do it's job in educating, succoring, and mentoring these children and when the last line fails, they are blamed by the very people who are NOT doing their jobs.

That's my two and I'm tired so have at it.

I fully agree nobody wins here, it may seem that I am harsh on LEO, I am but I fully support them and what they have to put up with and go through daily. But when I see things that aren't black and white but a little grey, I ask why is it grey, that's all.
It hard for me to imagine this kids thought process in thinking that he would find peace from an outcome such as this, but I pray he found it, but fear he was unaware what peace is, given the final choices he made.

I guess anti-gun sentiments are stronger in the urban areas, where there are so many people who are totally ignorant of guns, but want to ban them. 

Yes, I think training may have helped, but you might be surprised at how little common sense kids have these days. They spend their time in school, learning about academic subjects that are not controversial, and spend their free time playing video games in which it is encouraged to shoot people. When they do get their hands on any type of real gun, what do they do?

I have a 13 year-old son, and I'm often REALLY disappointed in the stupid things he does without thinking. I know I give my best effort to bring him up to be responsible, but he leaves outside doors open, breaks and loses expensive things from being careless, and impulsively does dumb things. All. The. Time. I don't remember being like that as a kid, but Mom tells me I was, and it's just a teenage boy thing. Too bad it has lethal consequences these days.

As dumb as my boy is sometimes, I do think he's sharp enough not to point a gun at a cop. Or anyone else. Maybe the trick is hearing/seeing the good behavior modeled from folks besides their parents? As a parent, I'm just one of many influences on him, and at that age, maybe the LEAST influential of them. If his friends are idiots, there's a higher chance my son will do something idiotic. Trying to impress eachnother, etc.

 @kkarmical
Not having all the evidence, seems to me that more space would of provided more options, but I’ll give them they probably had no choice to shoot, but maybe just maybe if they would of used the PA and allowed more space between them, they could of came to another solution. I mean this is text book on what not to do, and the fact that one of the officers was a 28 year veteran, HE Should of handled this situation more serious. But this is covered under basic patrol, how to interview a subject/suspect. You can’t just go rolling up, I’m sorry, they started it off wrong.

I don’t believe in luck when it’s talked about the way you imply my being lucky. I just always was in the position where I called the direction the confrontation went. 

 I probably would of buzzed him with the car, causing him to tip his play, then car behind me would of tail whipped him, few broken bones, they’ll heal, then they could of found out what the hell was troubling this poor kid, as somewhere something was seriously wrong in this young man’s life."


kkamical this is the part of your post that made me smile . The way I understand it you were trained to buzz the guy with the gun with your car and the following police car smacks them with the side of their car? Now that's a video I would like to see?

I think gun safety/trainer no courses should be mandated in all 50 states as a requirement for graduation from high school. There are more guns than people in the US. The odds are that at some point you will come into contact with a gun. It would be better for you to have even a passing understanding of how they function and how to treat them with respect and care than to live in ignorant fear. I also think that gun safety classes should be required to buy and own guns but that's another can of worms. I believe in the right to bear arms but I think it's just stupid that I can buy a gun at Walmart more quickly than I can buy a car with cash. 

You asked would gun safety training prevent this.In My opinion absolutely not.This isn't a gun issue but a society issue.Immature minds are exposed to too much violence.Movies,video games,tv and if they be me roudy instead of being disciplined they are placed on medication .Some people blame guns,some the police and some the child.The truth is the type of behavior is linked to the environment a person is raised.No amount of gun control or police training can take the place of parents exercising authority of their children's lives as too what they watch,what and who play with.That they do their homework and are correctly disciplined when they go astray.

"ztirffritz"I think it's just stupid that I can buy a gun at Walmart more quickly than I can buy a car with cash. 

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You don't have a contract with your government which says that the 'right to keep and operate an automobile shall not be infringed". You do have that contract with your government with respect to firearms. Feel free to modify that contract. The mechanisms are in place to make that modification.