WARNING: Exploding air hose on AirGuns of Arizons Diablo Air Dryer + tolerance

Forums Air Tanks, Pumps, Compressors, & Filters WARNING: Exploding air hose on AirGuns of Arizons Diablo Air Dryer + tolerance

  • Views : 3013
  • Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Wow, three strikes on this product.  After the first two strikes, I was just going to call AOA and let them know they had tolerance issues with this product, but with strike three (a safety issue) I need to make a post.

    First Strike:  Tolerance issue.  The depth from the center of the bearings to the face is normally around .1  On the Diablo it is .18 or .19 on the one they sent me.  This results in the face of the female adapter contacting the face of the male piece before the bearing engage and hence the hose will not stay connected.  You could fix this by grinding the face of the female adapter back down to normal or grinding down all your male adapters.  Hmmmmm

    Second Strike.  Tolerance issue.   The outside diameter of a normal female foster fitting is around .650 to .655.  The diameter on the Diablo filter is around .750.  In and of itself that isn’t a big issue.  Unless…. you are trying to connect it to something that has a area around the male foster cut to allow for a normal .650 fitting.  For example my ShoeBox Fredom 8 only has a .711 cut out.  That means there is no way to connect this to the ShoeBox without (a) enlarging the opening on the ShoeBox or (b) running the ShoeBox without it’s cover on (not a great idea where curious kids or pets are around).

    Strike Three: BANG!!!!  And the reason for the post.  I’m sorry vendors/sponsors but when your product which is designed to operate at 4500 psi explodes in proximity to me, you score a negative post.

    The Airguns of Arizona site says this is “Tested to 6000 psi for Safety” Yes, they used a capitol S in Safety.   I’m calling BS on this unit being tested to 6000 psi.  I started with an empty Tigershark tank (drained to 0 psi so I could fill it with dry air) and connected the dryer to the tank and ShoeBox (after grinding on my ShoeBox to get it to connect) and started the compressor.  At about 500psi the Diablo’s hose exploded, sending casing flying and bending the metal around the explosion site.  Sounded like a .22 CCI stinger going off by my ear, which is still ringing as I write this.

    Burst hose at 500 psi – on it’s first fill but “Tested to 6000 psi” – I think not.

    Who knows what would have happened if instead of connecting it to an empty tank and walking away a bit (like I did) I had connected it to a tank still at 2500 or 3000 psi and opened the tank!!  My hand would have been on the tank valve less than 4 inches from where it exploded.

    Incorrectly sized fitting.  Look at the gap between the face of the outer fitting and the face of the inner fitting. That much material has to be removed from either the dryer’s fitting or all your male foster fittings where you plan to use this if it is going to work. This would not fit my tank, compressor, or regulator, or guns male fittings.  It did fit the nice male plug that came with it though, From a diameter perspective, forget about this connecting to the male on your FX impact (if you want to dry the air between your tank/compressor and FX Impact.

    At least they named it right:·        • Diablo• From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia• Diablo [diˈaβlo] is a Spanish word, meaning “Devil”. 

    Link

    ajshoots
    Participant
    Member

    Glad no one was injured other than your ears. I have stuck with known US dealers for my hpa needs in hopes of avoiding problems like you just had. Do you know who actually manufacturers the Diablo and its components like the hose? Would be curious if there is any relationship to the hose issues posted about the airhog hose?

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Talked to the person at AOA that tests these and he said they pressure each up to 5000 and leave it there for a while prior to shipping.  I asked ‘How could mine explode at 500 psi if you tested it to 5000″ Their thought was it could have been shipping damage.  I doubt that as it was very well packaged (wrapped in clear bubble wrap to protect the anodizing then double or triple wrapped in green bubble wrap to protect the rest).  It was in the same box (loaded with packing peanuts) beside the scope which had no damage to it or it’s box. 

    I also explained the tolerance issues I came across.  They will be replacing the brass fitting with a more standard foster fitting next month to resolve that.  In the mean time, the tech agreed to me removing the material off the face of the inner connector was the correct solution.  “Just don’t go past the O ring”.

    They are going to ship me a new hose.  Just not sure when it would get it or if they would ship it overnight so I’d have it for weekend shooting.

     

    Link

    Bleudg
    Participant
    Member

    Sharrof,
    I had trouble connecting my Diablo hose quick connect to my Shoebox and I sanded down the outside connector ring. I think AOA wanted you to sand down the “outer ring”. Don’t sand down the inner ring too much or there is a chance that you will weaken the “snap ring retainer” mounted on the inner ring. If I remember correctly I don’t think I had that large of space between the inner and outer ring. Your fitting is definitely defective.

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Mine needed to have the inside ring ground down.  The problem was the distance from the bearings to the face was too long.  The inside ring would contact the male foster fitting and the bearing would be too far back to drop into the groove.  

    Yes, you have to be careful to not go through that O ring or the fitting is shot.

    ajshoots,

    No idea on who made this.  Hope they somehow see this post though!

     

    Link

    wyshadow
    Participant
    Member

    I have been planning on buying the Diablo in a few months but after reading this, I might change my mind. If you have to grind fittings so they can fit is not worth buying. HPA is no joke.

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    I paid Airguns of  Arizona for 2 day shipping so I would have the air dryer for shooting this weekend.  When the unit failed and I called AOA to report issues with the tolerances and the failed hose I asked them to send the replacement part overnight so I’d have it for this weekend.  Did they do that?????  NO.  Sent it UPS ground so I’m not going to have it until next Thursday!1Z09A35R0361098538

    Crappy component and crappy service.  Lesson learned.

    I’ll call Joe B and get one of his units on the way Monday and will call AOA and have then send a shipping label so I can return their junk to them.
     

    Link

    clgraham82
    Participant
    Member

    Glad you weren’t injured and glad I chose the JB filter instead of this thing!

    Link

    NeilClague
    Spectator
    Spectator

    Sharroff I am glad that you were not hurt, there needs to be more control over HPA parts sold over here. I bought an air hose from a sponsor on the yellow forum and the female fitting failed and blew off the male fitting and smacked me on the knuckles causing them to swell almost instantly. It kinked the hose badly so I contacted the vendor and told him what had happened, he told me I would have to replace the hose and buy a new one, he made no offer at all to replace it. I was not about to replace the hose with another one from the same vendor so a new one was purchased from Joe B and that has worked for me faithfully since then.
    I also received my brand new Cricket with a male foster connector that would not fit into any of my female couplers, I also believe that any hpa fittings need to be made of stainless or another strong metal, not brass but that is my personal opinion. I just feel that it is time HPA components were controlled more stringently to stop all of the cheap junk being sold out there just to maximize profit. 
    After a lot of research my air drier also came from Joe B, it was pretty expensive but I do not have to stand 10 feet away from it when I use it, just in case!
    Safety is extremely important when using 3000+psi, it is like working with explosives and can be deadly so why allow cheap parts to be sold for it? Anyway I am glad you were not hurt and hope AOA takes care of you and gives you your refund. All the best, Neil.

    Link

    30cal
    Participant
    Member

    I have just decided to go with Joe’s filter. I have been using his Tiger Shark tank and hose’s for almost a year now and they are very high quality products! No issues what so ever. I love the liquid filled gauge and the second gauge that reads tank pressure. The hose’s he sells are burst tested to 30,000. psi. They are micro bore as well. After reading this I see no reason to change brands now. The Alpha filter seems to be a better more sophisticated design anyway. High pressure air is scary!

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Agree with your decision 30cal.  I called Joe Monday and had him send me one of his Alphas.  It will be on my doorstep this evening: 775441194093

    The replacement to fix the broken Diablo – which was sent on Saturday – isn’t going to get to my place till Thursday – even though I asked for Monday delivery 1Z09A35R0361098538

    I got what I paid for in both transactions.

     

    Link

    30cal
    Participant
    Member

    Nice! Please let us know what you think of it. If you could post a photo or two with the filter removed that would be great! Maybe before you hook it up?

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Happy to post photos of Alpha w/ measurements of it’s connectors vs Diablo.

    I’ll also post side by side pictures with the Diablo, but will not show disassembly of the Diablo as I intend to return it in its ‘as is’ broken condition on Friday.  You can find videos of that here:  (this isn’t my video)

     

    Link

    30cal
    Participant
    Member

    Awesome!

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Here is a quick review of the Joe Brancato Alpha (JBA for the rest of this review) vs the Diablo.  I’m not Michael or Hold over Ted so keep your expectations down….

    Here is a picture of the two side by side.  If we were buying based on simplicity and professional finish, well I think the Diablo would take it hands down.  If looks didn’t matter and we were looking for something with functionality, well, one would go with the JBA filter.   The Diablo looks like the marketing department won out.  The JBA looks like the engineers did all the work and didn’t tell the marketing folks before it got shipped.  I’m an engineer by background so that’s a compliment.

    And for all of us too lazy to RTFM, Joe put the manual right onto the unit. Pretty?  No.  Functional, Yea.  Plus he can say “I told you so” when someone wonders why air doesn’t immediately go from compressor to tank when you call to say ‘My tank gauge doesn’t go up right away like it used to”.


    Ok, so now that the bathing suit contest is over, let’s move onto the talent show.

    First, in the picture above please point out the pressure bleed off device on the JBA and Diablo.  Ok, that’s a trick question.  There isn’t one on the Diablo.  What does that mean?  Well, when you are done charging your tank and want to disconnect, The high pressure air + moisture + oils from compressor + particles from desiccant + desiccants release (let call it high pressure stuff) has to go somewhere.  With the JBA, turn the knob at the bottom (dirty side of filter/dryer) and it bleeds off into the atmosphere (or paper towels or whatever).  If you have the female on the Diablo connected to your compressor, your are going to have to open the compressors bleed valve which is going to send all the high pressure stuff back into your compressor.  I hope you don’t have that Diablo female on your tank as that high pressure stuff is going though your tanks valve to atmosphere.  And remember as high pressure stuff expands it releases moisture, gets cooler, and deposits stuff on/in your fittings.   I thought the point of a filter/dryer was not to get stuff in our tank so I guess it’s headed back into the compressor, eh? 

    Second, take a look at the picture below and tell me what the pressure in the two disconnected units are.  Ok, that’s a trick question unless you have both of these to examine.  The JBA is easy: take a look at it’s gauge.  Hey!  Wait a second.  The JBA is disconnected and it’s showing 1900 psi!!! What’s going on?  Guess we have another of those “simple and looks good” vs “engineer design” things going on.  Where you have that clean looking male foster on the Diablo you have a bunch of fittings and adapters on the JBA.  Did the JBA just run out of the right fitting and have to use all those to get to a male foster?  Uh, no.  There is a check valve on the output stack of the JBA.  Even though the JBA male foster is not connected, it’s holding pressure.  Possible benefit, less time to pump that cylinder from 0-1900 psi next time around.  Possible benefit, better air control – it’s not open to atmosphere after use.

    So to build on that..what if one connects a tank at 3000 psi to the JBA and Diablo and opens the valve?  On the Diablo, it’s going from 0psi to 3000 psi as soon as you open the tank gauge (if its connected to a compressor or something else with a closed air circuit).  If the Diablo isn’t connected, you are going to blow your tank air though the Diablo into the room.  What about if the JBA’s other side isn’t connected?  That valve stack on the JBA is going to stop air from flowing from the tank into the JBA unless the JBA is already at a higher pressure than the tank.  So, the the JBA is at 0 and you open a tank at 3000, that valve isn’t going to open until your compressor fills the JBA to match at least 1800 then slowly build to 3000 psi.  If you’ve primed the JBA from the compressor to 1700 psi and then open that 3000 psi tank, the compressor will slowly start to take the JBA from 1500 to 3000 gradually opening the valve more as the JBA pressure gets closer to tank pressure.

    I’m not going to disassemble the Diablo because I am sending back due to its failure.  See the video from someone else earlier in this thread for that.

    I will take apart the JBA because I plan to keep it.  Step 1, unscrew the base and remove.  The first thing you will notice is a spring.  That spring is sits betwen the cap and the cartridge to make sure the cartridge stay in place so the desiccant doesn’t directly touch the walls of the filter/dryer.

     

    Next, let’s take a look inside the JBA filter/dryer.  See that dark grey material between the end of the threads and that light grey center piece?  That sits between the filter cartridge and the walls of the filter/dryer for the length of the cartridge (you’ll see that next).  We can also see a felt like filter being held in place my a metallic grate.  On the Diablo, all the desiccant material is in a large area between the walls of the filter/dryer.  Here it is being forced though a smaller cross section.  We’ll get into more into that in the next paragraph.

    Now, let’s remove the filter cartridge from the JBA and look at it in relation to the larger container. This cartridge is completely self contained – another layer of material between the walls of the JBA and the material doing the work.  And I think it’s a well designed cartridge.  First is a rough filter to clean particles and maybe absorb oils.  Then comes the moisture removing material.  Then comes another separator to keep particles from the desiccant from reaching the next stage.  Then comes what looks like an active carbon material, then another separator to ensure that carbon doesn’t go somewhere it shouldn’t.   That’s very different than the Diablos design of a loose piece of felt like material that isn’t even the same diameter as the inside of the filter dryer ‘loosely’ sitting between the endcaps and the desiccate material.  

    And if one compares the size of the desiccant balls we have like roughly twice as many small ones in the JBA to medium ones in the Diablo.  Think about it this way:   If you could put two soccer balls into a 5 gallon bucket before it’s full – think about how much empty space there is around those.  Now, fill the same bucket with golf balls – how much empty air space?  Now fill it will .177 BBs…see how we keep getting more surface area in contact with air and less ’empty air space’ doing nothing.  That’s happening in these filer/dryers.  And there is a spring in the base of this cartridge to keep it all packed tight:  Here is a closeup.  Compare this to the video of the Diablo

    Here is that check valve that I mentioned earlier (center).  It works by managing pressure on both sides of the valve.

    So next I put the cartridge back in and measured the depth of the end cap with a digital caliper.

    And compared that to where the seat of the cap will be in the tube.  It’s kind hard to tell, but it looks like the end of the cap will snug up into the insulating material in the center of the filter.  Am I 100% sure that means any ‘acid leakage’ from the desiccant will not get into the threads?  No, but it looks like some really good design and fitting work was done to try to ensure it doesn’t.  I’m not saying this works or doesn’t – just saying it looks like it was designed to work that way.  When one opens the check valve and that vapor full of stuff blows though the cap, yep, it will be in contact with the small hole drilled though the center of the cap.  But that would just slowly go after the center of the cap and the bleed valve.  That’s much better than having thread failure and that big cap and filter turning into a 5000psi propelled projectile!!  

    Here is a picture of what you have to do to a ShoeBox to connect the large brass Diablo fitting provided.

    Look at how much better the JBA foster connects.  Sigh.  Hind sight is 20 / 20.

    Here is the Diablo with only stage 1 compressor pressure – air always flowing.

    http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah25/B_Scott_Harroff/IMG_2126_zpsml5oi7ii.mp4

    here is the JBA – same test – except the JBA is being driven at 1700 psi from the ShoeBox – the check valvle is just starting to open a bit.

    http://vid1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah25/B_Scott_Harroff/IMG_2134_zpsun1fxhrl.mp4

    So why do we care about the above.  Ok, pick up a pack of normal packing gel.  Blow over it with your breath.  How much moisture do you think it removed.  Now put that in a tube and again with your breath blow though it.  How much did it remove?  More?  Yep.

    Now – don’t do this at home cause I’m a professionally trained nut – blow though the Diable.  How much moisture was removed.  More than the straw?  Yep. Did it get all of it?  Nope.

    Now – don’t do this at home cause I’m a professionally trained nut – blow though the JBA. What do you mean you can’t????  Try again.  Same result?  What’s up?  The JBA’s check valve needs atleast 1700 psi (on mine) to open.  

    So as the air is flowing aroung the beads in the Diablo, it’s being forced to 1700 psi in the JBA before it can leave.  The more pressure, the more the air is forced to interact with the desicant meaning the more moisture is removed.  And by the same token the more is removed by the active charcoal in the JBA.  End result should be inferred:

    At 0-100 psi, the cleaning of the air is less than 100-250 which is less than 250-500 which is less than 500-1000 which is less than 1000-1700.  The air going into your tank from the Diablo on the first half of your filling isn’t going to be as clean and dry as the air that starts leaking into your tank from the JBA starting at 1700 psi.  That’s a big difference on cleaning the first half of the air going into your tanks, folks!

    Here is my stage 1 – a 200 psi 15 gallon compressor in a room at 60 degrees and 30 percent humidity via a dehumidifier.

    I started off with an empty Tigershark and filled it to 4500 psi.  Here is the water and stuff removed by stage 1 – a couple of teaspoons

    Here is what I bled off from the JBA at the end – a couple of drops of water and residue from high compression.

    I have cool dry air (30% humidity)  going into a large tank at 200 psi.  I still wound up with drops of water and high pressure ‘stuff’ on the other end of my shoebox.  For you folks with no filter/dryers, that’s going into your tanks/guns.

    So to wrap this up, I’m not saying the Diablo is bad (other than mine exploded on its first fill at 500 psi).  I am saying I think the JBA is better than the Diablo though.

    Is the JBA worth the difference?  Depends on who you are and what you want.  Some folks are really happy with getting a Mrod and customizing.  Others are paying a big difference for a Daystate or FX.    Some folks aren’t even using a dryer on their compressors and pumps.

    I’m keeping my JBA!!!

      

    Link

    dodge3500
    Participant
    Member

    Nice write up.:)

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks, Dodge.  I’ll take a +1 on accuracy if you’d like
     

    Link

    linsfreak
    Participant
    Member

    Yes sharroff was very good, to bad I ordered a not so good one the other day.

    Link

    sharroff
    Participant
    Member

    Like I said, I’m not saying the Diablo is bad.  It’s better than no filter.  I’m just saying I see advantages in the JBA.  There are folks using no filter at all.  The Diablo is certainly better than no filter.

    Link

    pooterjoe
    Participant
    Member

    I appreciate the information submitted by Sharroff on the Diablo filter system and he has provided a hell of a lot of information to consider. But I have concluded,  how in the hell am I to feel comfortable as to not being injured if not killed by unsafe High Pressure products. Having to Grind down fittings is absolutely rediculous.   Airguns of Arizona was not long ago selling the Diablo Clean Air System and when I subsequently ordered a new Omega 75cf tank from them to match up to my Omega Supercharger I was advised that the Omega Clean Air Filter system was a better product even if it was $100.00 more than the Filter system.  I now have the Omega complete system and I wanted to assure that I would be connecting and disconnecting everything safely.  I have attempted to take note of Utube videos and considered the input from the Airgun Nation forums. One thing  for certain I have the Three Omega products and there are foster quick connects that don't securely seat/connect  onto connectors.

    I'm only comfortable in that I have correctly have connected my Supercharger directly to my Rifles I can fill my new Omega Carbon fiber tank off the Supercharger. The problem is that connecting the Omega Filter between the Supercharger and the Omega Tank appears to be faulty at the connections.  Makjosey in his Utube video points out that the filter isn't a absolute necessity in that the Supercharger does deal with providing safe dry air but he advised that the addition of a Clean Air filter is good to add.

    I'm going to take a Time-Out and set the Omega Clean Air Filter on the shelf until I can hopefully communicate with someone as to safely connecting and utilizing the cartridge.  I just want to be Safe and Not Sorry. 

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.