Vulcan,s now at AOA

They are also $100 less than RL or WildWest.

For me it would be worth the extra $100 dealing with R&L or WildWest Airguns or the former TopGun Airgun. I wanted to make a comment about pricing the other dealers out of the Vulcan market but self-censored myself.

Vulcan is coming out with a synthetic stock gun, in 22 and 25 that should be about 100 to 200 dollars cheaper than the wood stock ones.
I was told they would be out in late may of this year,,,
Its also said to be a little lighter than the wood one,
I myself prefer the synthetic stock , it takes a little more abuse and does not show it,
A scratch on the wood sucks , The synthetic just fluffs it off,
Mike

"NMshooter"They are also $100 less than RL or WildWest.

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Same with Kalibrgun products. They are also $100 less. Anyone that thinks it is a lack of competition among importers that causes high prices for FX and Daystate should note this fact. High prices start with the manufacturer and ultimately with our willingness to pay them.

Same with Kalibrgun products. They are also $100 less. Anyone that thinks it is a lack of competition among importers that causes high prices for FX and Daystate should note this fact. High prices start with the manufacturer and ultimately with our willingness to pay them.

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Not sure if that's entirely correct. Yes, "our willingness to pay them" is the main driving factor. However, as far as competition... Albeit the Vulcan and Kalibrgun import arrangement may be different, the FX and Daystate for example are sold to AOA (as the exclusive importer) at a cost below the price AOA is selling to other U.S. dealers. For example, if FX sold to AOA the FX 500 Royale Walnut for $980 (753 EUR in 2013), AOA can sell that in turn for $1,500 to other U.S. dealers with the stipulation that they all retail it for $1,750. They are not allowed to lower the price unless AOA agrees. If AOA later decides to lower the prices to $1,500, the other dealers could only do the same at at a loss. So, yes, there is competition but it's severely limited and controlled.

By the way, I do have a copy of the FX's official European factory prices from 2013 which I used in my FX Royale 500 Walnut example. I do not have the actual price that AOA paid for them, nor the price at which they subsequently resold them to other U.S. dealers.

I certainly take with a grain of salt (justly or not) any comments from those who are a couple of hours drive from AOA and have not had to experience the agony of those who do not have such a convenient face-to-face option.

"fe7565"

Same with Kalibrgun products. They are also $100 less. Anyone that thinks it is a lack of competition among importers that causes high prices for FX and Daystate should note this fact. High prices start with the manufacturer and ultimately with our willingness to pay them.

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Not sure if that's entirely correct. Yes, "our willingness to pay them" is the main driving factor. However, as far as competition... Albeit the Vulcan and Kalibrgun import arrangement may be different, the FX and Daystate for example are sold to AOA (as the exclusive importer) at a cost below the price AOA is selling to other U.S. dealers. For example, if FX sold to AOA the FX 500 Royale Walnut for $980 (753 EUR in 2013), AOA can sell that in turn for $1,500 to other U.S. dealers with the stipulation that they all retail it for $1,750. They are not allowed to lower the price unless AOA agrees. If AOA later decides to lower the prices to $1,500, the other dealers could only do the same at at a loss. So, yes, there is competition but it's severely limited and controlled.

By the way, I do have a copy of the FX's official European factory prices from 2013 which I used in my FX Royale 500 Walnut example. I do not have the actual price that AOA paid for them, nor the price at which they subsequently resold them to other U.S. dealers.

I certainly take it with a grain of salt (justly or not) any comments from those who are a couple of hours drive from AOA and have not had to experience the agony of those who do not have such a convenient face-to-face option.

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I'm not sure how that is different to any other importer. Secondary retailers that act as sales agents for the importers are always going to be at the importers mercy. That being said, the stores that sell for AOA seem to offer the same prices. My Cricket was the same price from Precision as it would have been from AOA directly. If AOA didn't want you to buy from Precision then they simply wouldn't supply them. FX guns are also the same price.

AOA seem just as happy to sell through 3rd parties as they do direct. Perhaps they even prefer it as customer service doesn't seem to be their thing. 

my point was that for brands that have multiple importers, it doesn't always result in cheaper prices. Wild West are apparently choosing to compete on service as they charge more than AOA for the same product. 

I can't think of any example where multiple importers has resulted in a major saving for us on a particular brand. They all seem to sell at around the same level (give or take). 

The only time where I see price drops is on air guns that are no longer popular like the Benjamim Bulldog which suddenly dropped to $800. 

Is AOA contractually the exclusive importer of FX or is it that others are choosing not to import them? It would be interesting to find out as exclusivity agreements are rarely open-ended.

Can you guys give the AoA bashing a rest? That's the stuff that constantly goes on at another forum so let's move on. AoA has been great to me and they spend a ton of $$$ supporting the Airgun industry. They have been good to me for me the last 18 years. If you don't like them, fine don't buy, but it's time to move on please.

"zebra"Is AOA contractually the exclusive importer of FX or is it that others are choosing not to import them? It would be interesting to find out as exclusivity agreements are rarely open-ended.

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FX chooses who they want as U.S. importer(s) and they apparently been choosing AOA exclusively. Other dealers who opt to sell FX get theirs from AOA. Since AOA does the warranty (and the supposedly required insurance) exclusively, they are certainly adding in that cost (and some profit?) to the other U.S. dealers' purchase price. What got some people upset a while back is the amount of surcharge AOA places on each FX product which seems to be around 80% back in 2013 which includes warranty/repair/insurance costs.

To be fair to AOA, they do give back a lot to the sport with their Extreme Benchrest, and other promotions, etc that costs money.

"Scott_MCT"Can you guys give the AoA bashing a rest? That's the stuff that constantly goes on at another forum so let's move on. AoA has been great to me and they spend a ton of $$$ supporting the Airgun industry. They have been good to me for me the last 18 years. If you don't like them, fine don't buy, but it's time to move on please.

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Scott, you live 45 minutes away from AOA. I am sure I would have a similarly pleasant experience in your situation. I respect your experience, and you should respect mine. If you do not like others to chime in about their own experience with AOA which happens to be negative, why don't you start your own "I love AOA" thread, or call on the AGN Moderator to shut this thread down? Some of us learn and make decision based on such (unfortunately) negative experiences and sharing them may help us avoid costly or aggravating mistakes in the future.

"fe7565"

"zebra"Is AOA contractually the exclusive importer of FX or is it that others are choosing not to import them? It would be interesting to find out as exclusivity agreements are rarely open-ended.

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FX chooses who they want as U.S. importer(s) and they apparently been choosing AOA exclusively. Other dealers who opt to sell FX get theirs from AOA. Since AOA does the warranty (and the supposedly required insurance) exclusively, they are certainly adding in that cost (and some profit?) to the other U.S. dealers' purchase price. What got some people upset a while back is the amount of surcharge AOA places on each FX product which seems to be around 80% back in 2013 which includes warranty/repair/insurance costs.

To be fair to AOA, they do give back a lot to the sport with their Extreme Benchrest, and other promotions, etc that costs money.

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The reality is that there is always competition for air guns regardless of what anyone does. The competition is that I can buy another brand and there is no shortage of choice. It only feels like a problem when a brand creates a product we all want and everyone else is slow to catch up (like the Impact). 

Frankly, I am surprised that we don't see more clones like you do with firearms. You can pay big bucks for an original AR 15 or you can buy a $100 receiver and "build" you own. Making "Impact style" air rifles for 1/2 - 2/3 of the price seems like a no-brainer for someone.

If an importer takes a risk on a new brand, they deserve a period of exclusivity to enjoy the rewards. That's business. If they didn't get the exclusivity, it wouldn't be worth the risk and we would never even see some of the brands that we have come to respect. The new (ish) Jkhan air guns, for example. Imo that was a launch done right. The importer makes a nice mark-up without exploiting their customers.

if you want to sell your air guns in America, PA would be your first choice. I have no inside info on this but my guess would be that FX refused to agree to PA's customer service policy of no questions refunds and automatically replacing faulty air guns. It is entirely possible that AOA's perceived service issues are just an extension of the manufacturers attitude I guess.

There is only so much cost you can eat as a retailer. Perhaps FX offered exclusivity in exchange for AOA coving the cost of returned air rifles. I guess it doesn't really matter.

Personally, I don't care what happens behind the scenes. I don't care what any store does for the Airgun community or how much profit they make. I just want comfort that my $1500 - $2000 air gun will arrive on time, in working order and if there is an issue, it will be fixed for no extra cost. I would call that the bare minimum. 

PA has their faults but I am frequently impressed by their customer service. They just give you total confidence which is rare. There are more than a few people who will only buy from them. I am not one of those people but I can see why. I just wish they sold Kalibrgun, FX, Vulcans and Daystate etc. PA's line-up has been looking a little dated recently.

Zebra, great points you made I can certainly agree with. I see that possibility of the constrains AOA is operating under when it comes to FX products. I think better (much better) communication and being more responsive to the customers would go a long way in gaining reputation and customer confidence. Then again, if it does not hurt their bottom line (yet)...

No doubt about AoA not being responsive. Last time I ordered a Cricket and told them, don't ship, I'll pick it up. Get home the next day and there it is at the front door. Since I said don't ship in writing they refunded the shipping. There excel spread sheet ordering system is way old and when I'm laying down a few grand I don't get the warm and fuzzy. In fact I've ordered many things from other sites over the years simply because I don't like their "order form". Their web site says "best viewed 1024x768". Really How out of date is that? And viewing their site on a tablet sucks as some of you probably know. Being one of the biggest Airgun dealers in the US I'm amazed it has never been updated.

With that being said their store is awesome and when you talk to the folks face to face they are all good people and very knowledgable and willing to help. You can try a gun your interested in at their range and they are happy to answer any questions. Don't forget, without AoA, Extream Benchrest would probably have never seen the light of day. It is probably the largest and best air gun competition in the world and brings in all the manufacturers and their owners. Many other dealers are now involved but mostly because AoA got it off the ground. AoA has a lot to do with what FX, DayState, HW, and others bring to our shores. They listen and have influence which is something a lot of people forget about.

don't worry they are making money on the deal at 175 a person! times over a hundred people plus all the sales etc they just need to make it easy for people to order from them its a horrible system

Can't wait to see more guns made in the USA....anyone can outsource junk from China.......

Scott, I would love to have easy access to AOA where I could just pop in. It's certainly an interesting and inspiring place for air gunners, and being able to try out the gun you are buying would be a huge plus. When I finally reached AOA over the phone they are always courteous and knowledgeable, and no doubt they contribute to/sponsor the sport which is a mutually beneficial relationship. But some prefer to muddy the waters between genuine constructive criticism vs petty gutter-sniping. I see how one can feel fed up with constant attacks against the same dealer(s).

There seems to be an dynamic and ongoing war going on between certain dealers with the goal of hurting each other's reputation, but casual airgunners like myself prefer to stay out of that and try adapting to the "boundaries" setup by certain forums...boundaries that were stemming from such past disagreements/disputes. After a couple of years of absence from the Yellow (due to my work) I walked in to some landmines on that forum which were leftover from previous disputes. Most of us (I would think) prefer not to take sides, and prefer to take our time to weigh opinions from various sources before making up our minds...and eventually learn to read between the lines recognizing agitators and low-class snipers. 

With that said, I am glad that the Vulcans are now available at AOA. I own two of them and the support I received from the former TopGunAirgun and from AGT directly was outstanding. I did not expect AGT to send me two free hammer/spring upgrade kits even I had no issues with the hammer/springs, nor did I expect Petr at TopGun to do a free shroud upgrade while the action was there for a gauge replacement. AGT's first shipment actually "was lost" and they sent me a replacement that arrived after 10 days from the Czech Republic. After the lost shipment showed up, having one extra upgrade kit, I mailed that over to another airgunner in a neighboring state so AGT would not have to pay out of their pockets again. Yes, AGT's bottom line may be hurt when spending money on unsolicited upgrades and transoceanic shipping, but in the end it comes down to integrity, honesty, and professionalism which will no doubt earn them more customers in the long run.

Contrast that with my FX Impact which I finally received from AOA about one week after they announced that $7 fill-port quick-disconnect solution which was probably the most visible (albeit minor) complaint from all the FX Impact owners. Kudos for AOA for taking the initiative and implementing a nice work-around (a similar solution was posted here on AGN), but when I asked them if they will send me one I was told it's free but shipping costs $7. Well, I paid $2K for the gun so $7 is a drop in the bucket, right? Yes, it is a drop in the overall costs, and I did not want to be petty and argue with them. I am sure they have to watch their bottom line if they want to be a successful business....but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth when I compared it to my Vulcan experience.

AoA locked in some deals with some manufacturers over the years, which down the road became popular. Contract terms and conditions are how you lock down deals which are legally binding. The whole Candian HW fiasco was a situation where HW was not adhering to the T&C's they agreed to and AoA held them accountable, which they should have. This opinion comes from me, who bought two HW barrels from the Candian dealer before AoA imposed their agreement. I could no longer purchase from this Candian dealer but realized this is business and AoA was simply emposing the terms of their agreement with HW. So who really caused the firestorm? HW and the Candian firm, or AoA? May not like it, but AoA was correct in imposing their agreement and this is a perfect example of why they are successful. Capitalism consists of swap market dealers, but on a higher level, business owners make agreements which future investments are planned upon. When a dealer doesn't ad-hear to an agreement they need to be called out which is what AoA did. The folks that felt AoA did something wrong simply wanted AoA to back off and spread the wealth which completely discounted all the effort AoA went through acquiring the agreement in the first place. Why should AoA spread the wealth of their efforts to dealers who were not successful coming to the same type of agreements? Ok my rant is over...

Scott why is it you feel you have to always come to the defense of AOA? Surely if members have legitimate claims against them and state this on the forum it would be beholden to AOA to respond themselves, unless you now work for them and are speaking on their behalf? No offense buddy but it seems to me that the only person constantly coming to their defense is you, let hem defend themselves if they have answers to the members who have stated grievances against them, you will for sure see me come to my defense if someone posts something about me that I feel is not true, Neil.