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WATCH ME PUMP 5000 PSI out of 2 hand pumps tethered together!!! 不

Forums Air Tanks, Pumps, Compressors, & Filters WATCH ME PUMP 5000 PSI out of 2 hand pumps tethered together!!! 不

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    Odoyle
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    United States
    Accuracy: +164

    You probably be more efficient if the pumps went all the way completely UP AND ALL THE WAY DOWN.

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    Healthservices
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Exactly you are riight! And what I meant!

    So what I did was locked down the left side on the pump that needed 17.5 inches of travel and adjusted the travel on the limit switches to 17.5 inches. I also allowed the pump that would only travel 17 inches to have a 1/2 give so it could move 17.5 inches.  My limit switches actually have a lot of give and I'm ok until I have everything set. All the wood I had was scrap I had lying around. I will have to play around with them a bit more though as they are definitely not even close to perfect. 

    So I'm putting away stuff for the night and I hear the amazon truck… 

    What did I order???

    Huh?

    Hmm. 

     

     

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    Healthservices
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Hopefully later this week I can work a little more on this project.

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    cworkman74
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +6

    Fun project! Looking forward to seeing any other tweaks you make. Following.

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    fe7565
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    United States
    Accuracy: +55

    Seems to work great!  Cool design.  One thing that I must admit I missed figuring out and I will look stupid asking….but what is controlling that up and down motion on the pumps?  Compressed air from where?   From the pumps?  And where does to air go if you want to pump a rifle?

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    Healthservices
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    fe7565

    Seems to work great!  Cool design.  One thing that I must admit I missed figuring out and I will look stupid asking….but what is controlling that up and down motion on the pumps?  Compressed air from where?   From the pumps?  And where does to air go if you want to pump a rifle?

    It is pneumatic and uses a compressor to power the thing up. It works off of air pressure from a air compressor that produces at least 100 psi.  there are limiters that work off of air and act like a microswitch. When this limiter is activated it sends a signal to air manifold to change the direction of the arm. I'm at work currently but will explain the process more in detail later.

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    fe7565
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    United States
    Accuracy: +55

    Healthservices

    fe7565

    Seems to work great!  Cool design.  One thing that I must admit I missed figuring out and I will look stupid asking….but what is controlling that up and down motion on the pumps?  Compressed air from where?   From the pumps?  And where does to air go if you want to pump a rifle?

    It is pneumatic and uses a compressor to power the thing up. It works off of air pressure from a air compressor that produces at least 100 psi.  there are limiters that work off of air and act like a microswitch. When this limiter is activated it sends a signal to air manifold to change the direction of the arm. I'm at work currently but will explain the process more in detail later.

    Amazingly cool.   Part hobby, part functional :)

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    Healthservices
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Exactly, it basically kept my mind off of things I did not want to deal with… lol

    I kind of wanted a electric motor to do the job but was not sure how to size a motor and gears to do the job. I was afraid I would be under powered.

    I figured I needed leverage.. I started off with a cylinder that I knew was powerful enough to push the hand pump all the way down. I found out my pump I was going to purchase had about a 17 inch stroke. I knew I also needed to make sure the pump actually does the complete stroke otherwise pressure would not go into the next chamber. So I started searching for a 18 inch stroke in 2 or more inch diameter piston. Then I started over thinking things as usual

    This was the air cylinder I got… 

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YWCZ21G?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

    As you can see it was 4 inches in diameter. Something that I later found to be over kill, at least with a air compressor that peaks at 160 psi 

    I also needed to make it move up and down. I started with a manual hand lever that opened and closed air to each chamber. I got this one which at 1/2 inch npt was also over kill with and really made the pumping a little too fast. I figured I could always lower the pressure or put a restriction in the line to slow it down. This is the manual control valve I started with.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DHR4QHY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_AEQ21MY71HFJR8MAHDX5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

     

    With some 1/2 nylon lines and push connect fittings and a regulator I had basically all I needed. This was with my first pump with the first trial run…

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Because the stroke of the cylinder was 18 and the stroke of the pump was 17.5 I had to make something that would allow the pump to go max travel without ripping the pump in pieces. I allowed the pump to move a 1/2 inch at the base. 

    Sorry all I have for now I just got home at 10 and basically brain dead. Maybe after a shower I will add more.

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    fe7565
    Participant
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    United States
    Accuracy: +55

    Hey. this thing works petty damn well!  Certainly not a toy.  For a proto-type it is really working well.  It has a bright future making it into a viable commercial product, if you are so inclined.      It's funny how it's huffing and puffing!  Reminds me when I first used a hand pump with PCPs  :) 

    I like the idea that you are using a shop air compressor. 

    What about temperatures?  When I used hand pumps they got really hot and that could ruin the pump. Does your setup get hot?  Do you need to add a thermistor to the pump-body to slow or stop the strokes?

    I may be able to help you with a control brain and/or a program, like an Arduino.  And also with interface to a pressure sensor and relays, switches, etc.

    Any way to solve that base moving around issue?  Maybe a spring between the pump base and the bolts?    Or a spring under the pump's wooded platform?  Or a spring between the pump stem and a pneumatic arm linkage?

    This one has a 20" stroke, but not sure about the force it is capable.  Some others on Amazon seem to have an adjustable length stroke.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078B6BPJB?psc=1&pf_rd_p=b1b2cdd9-ef85-4777-865c-8f92d7d6878a&pf_rd_r=Q8Q1H2D2HM211WFTZF11&pd_rd_wg=hHa8Y&pd_rd_i=B078B6BPJB&pd_rd_w=A7bA7&pd_rd_r=b3d8d7cf-bf0b-4b3b-bc44-76fcd76c6cbe&ref_=pd_luc_rh_rtpb_02_03_t_img_lh

     

     

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by fe7565.
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    Healthservices
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Thanks but if you add up cost the Nickle and dimes can get pretty pricey.

      The looseness at the base was on purpose as the stroke was longer than the pump and I did not want the cylinder to tear apart the pump esp on the first version as the stops on the cylinder were the only stops. 

    The theoretical force output of a cylinder is the usable piston area multiplied by the applied air pressure (F = PA). For example, a cylinder with a 112-in. bore and an extend force of 80 psi generates 141 lb of force (1.767 × 80 = 141).

    (as copied from google)

    I have a 4 inch cylinder. That in theory will tear your arm off at my compressor pressure of 160 psi if not regulated. Even regulated to 90 psi my 4 inch was able to push the two hand pumps down all the way. From what guys say it takes over 200 ft lbs to push a pump all the way down on a single pump at the higher pressures and this is doing 2 pumps!

    With the limit switches the stroke can be finite. But in the configuration where I had two different length pumps and stroke requirements I had to have one loose. Of course stupid me got the wrong one loose and it prevented the one pump from completely compressing and the other from completely extending.  

    Later in week I will install the two pumps that I have that are identical. And see how the performance is. 

    I wanted to start simple with just manual pneumatic (so I can make sure the idea even worked) then go to basic auto pneumatic which is what I have now. 

    With the electronic pneumatic controlled parts it will be easier to control the movement and speed. 

    Right now controlling the speed can be done with restrictions and regulators. 

    I forgot at what pressure but lowering the pressure slowed the pumping as the pressure increases. If you noticed in the video the pumping was faster at the start when there was not a lot of high pressure but as the pressure increased the pumping effort is harder and started to decrease, it will even stop if the air pressure in the cylinder cannot overcome the force required to push the hand pumps down. This is perfect as it maybe able to slow the speeds down enough that the seals hopefully will not burn out and stop at some arbitrary psi level like for example 4500.

     

    Sorry a bit long winded. Yes when and if I go to electronic I probably would love your help programing some type of pneumatic control system. A electronic version would be nice in that you can put the limit switches on the cylinder itself and it will sense the position of the piston. Using  Arduino we can even stop the pumping every so many minutes or so many strokes to allow it to cool off and then proceed again.

    But like I mention this was just an idea I wanted to try and see if I could actual do using just things bought off of amazon. 

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    Healthservices
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    So i was screwing around and shot a 100 rounds or so and thought I have not used the hand pumps in a while. As i was pumping the fx with the 580 bottle i was wondering how acurate the guage was and whether i actually got over 5k with it that one time i was not paying attention. How could i find out how well my gauge was? Did I really get the pressure that high?

    So i realized i could just hook it up to my bottle and and use the large fluid filled joe B gauge on it as I pump! 

    Just skip to the end just before I released the air in the lines. 

     

     

     

     

    Kind of makes me want to play with this setup again to see what else i can do. Lol

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    Chickenthief
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    Denmark
    Accuracy: +10

    So you made a booster!

     

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    Healthservices
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    United States
    Accuracy: +4

    Lol yeah something like that, it probably cost me more than one I could have bought, but it was fun to make.

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    Gretzch
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    United States
    Accuracy: +0

    You are making my head hurt!  LOL

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    Healthservices
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    Gretzch

    You are making my head hurt!  LOL

    You should have seen me when I first got the idea and started implementing it without drawing up any plans.. My brain was about to implode. Part of why I wanted to start with just a manual valve body to start. I found out recently this cheap pneumatic cylinder I've been using has magnets on the pistons which means I can put a reed switch on the cylinder! And a reed switch means I can use a electric pneumatic 5 way valve. 

    Which also means I can put a brain box of some type that uses code like Arduino.

    Which means I will have to learn Arduino…

     

     

    Yes it is very possible my brain will implode… 仁

     

    Question, maybe need to open new topic up but, can I use a a 5 way valve like this  ?

    Or will I need a valve with a switch on each side like this?

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    JRisBundyboyz
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    Accuracy: +0

    Healthservices

    So i was screwing around and shot a 100 rounds or so and thought I have not used the hand pumps in a while. As i was pumping the fx with the 580 bottle i was wondering how acurate the guage was and whether i actually got over 5k with it that one time i was not paying attention. How could i find out how well my gauge was? Did I really get the pressure that high?

    So i realized i could just hook it up to my bottle and and use the large fluid filled joe B gauge on it as I pump! 

    Just skip to the end just before I released the air in the lines. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Kind of makes me want to play with this setup again to see what else i can do. Lol

    hold so how much air was in the scba tank. There’s no way it filled that entire tank with a minute and half of pumping. What 60 strokes? And to over 4500psi

     

    what am I missing here. 

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    JRisBundyboyz
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    United States
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    In addition I have lot of pneumatic supplies like that but like yours not much is rated for more then 200 psi of that.  Those electronic valves for example. 

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    Healthservices
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    Accuracy: +4

     

    hold so how much air was in the scba tank. There’s no way it filled that entire tank with a minute and half of pumping. What 60 strokes? And to over 4500psi

     

    what am I missing here. 

    不 no no no!, I just used the gauge itself. Tank valve is closed so it is just dead heading and filling just the lines and filter.

     

    As far as the knowing what I am doing with pneumatics, I know just enough to get me into trouble and waste a whole bunch of money.

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    JRisBundyboyz
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    Healthservices

     

    hold so how much air was in the scba tank. There’s no way it filled that entire tank with a minute and half of pumping. What 60 strokes? And to over 4500psi

     

    what am I missing here. 

    不 no no no!, I just used the gauge itself. Tank valve is closed so it is just dead heading and filling just the lines and filter.

     

    As far as the knowing what I am doing with pneumatics, I know just enough to get me into trouble and waste a whole bunch of money.

    thanks I don’t know why I didn’t think of that  

    That valve you show is only for 115psi. I too have looked into electronic valves but most I’ve found of poppet style require the difference between pressures to be within 500psi for valve to run. 
     

    plenty of slow screw run valves that would empty your tank by the time they close. 
     

    the rouge did it back in the day and huben now but I’d like to see more options here 

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    Healthservices
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    The pneumatic valves I am going to be using will only be for the control side of the pump. No air from my compressor actually goes into the tank or pcp. Right now using only pneumatic actuating valves I use less than 80 psi. Most times just 65 psi. I'm hoping to convert to electronic actuating pneumatic valves so I can have a smaller package.

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