Using Nitrogen vs. compressed air fills for Carbon Fiber fill Tank

Forums Air Tanks, Pumps, Compressors, & Filters Using Nitrogen vs. compressed air fills for Carbon Fiber fill Tank

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    tommyb
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    I have an Omega CF 74 cu feet fill tank, and when empty I have it filled at a “somewhat” local Dive Shop with compressed air.  I fill to maximum of 4500 PSI.  

    Have seen a couple of posts of using Nitrogen vs. compressed air.  I don’t know the pros/cons of using Nitrogen vs. compressed air. I have a .22 Cal Huntsman Regal XL that works just fine with compressed air, but I am curious to know if/how Nitrogen will work and any recommendations based on your collective knowledge or experiences using Nitrogen to fill PCP air guns. 

    Also, where does one get Nitrogen fills?

    Thanks, Tom

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    T3PRanch
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    Nitrogen is guaranteed DRY! It is usually available at Welding gas suppliers in “Large” 6000 psi cylinders that cost you rent plus for the gas in the bottle. They do not last long filling 74 cu/ft tanks but do last a long time filling guns. You must also obtain either a fill assembly and regulator or just a 6K psi fill assembly for the bottle. There are quite a few threads on this forum detailing N2 as a fill gas. Just use the little magnifying glass in the upper right corner next to the logout button to do a search.

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    Rodeo
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    I have just started investigating this very topic and would appreciate everyone’s input – especially sources for nitrogen in central MD.  I am leaning towards nitrogen because it is clean, dry, and requires no maintenance.  From the reading that I have done it seems that it would be a long time before the cost of nitrogen would surpass the cost of a compressor (assuming a $1300 compressor).

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    spysir
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    Lot’s of good information on the forum, click the search function ( looks like a magnifing glass upper right on this machine) and type in nitrogen, maybe filter the search to this section.

     Works great, priced mild – $150ish per year for rental & fill- to wild – over $600-.
    You need to call every supplier for price , tank rental, delivery, refill unless you perhaps know someone with a welding shop or such.
    The step down reg is pricey, some people have filled 4,500psi CF tanks from a 6,000psi tank without one. I’m not saying I recommend that at all. Reg can cost $300+.
    Depending on cost and application you might want a booster also so you can use all the psi a large tank has below your fill point.

    Helium issafe  fun also but that is really pricey.

     John

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    sigp220
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    I too have been studying this.  Just today stopped at the local weld supply warehouse.  Bottle rental was .70 a day.  They said they’d pick up and deliver for $15.  Still working on the pricing on the regulators. The weld shop recommended getting high quality ones.  I did not price any of those not sure what I’ll need yet.  Forum search here I come.

    But so far, bottle rental, regulators to fill and a shoe box.  Now we are talking $$$ again.

    Looking at another option if I can find a local production weld shop that uses Nitrogen that would let me fill off their tank with my regulators.

    Dave

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    Lemensd
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    Hello all

    I have been using nitrogen for about five years.
    I rent the tank (6000)psi and they do pickup and deliver and only use one to two tanks a year.
    There is no reason not use nitrogen . it’s dry and clean and more stable than compressed air.
    If you use it to fill your gun directly you will need a regulator , however I download to my carbon and scuba tanks directly from the nitrogen tank , then them to my airguns.
    The regulator is not needed to download to these tanks , as you can throttle the control valve just fine for the tanks larger volume.
    I have filled guns directly . but is very ssensitive and don’t recommend.

    Donald

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    Hynzie
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    what about talking to the local fire dept sometimes they will help you if you have there adapter   it cant hurt to ask and generally there good guys.maybe make a small donation to there charity they usually are doing some fund raiser from toys for tots to the boot ,,where they stand in the street with a boot looking to raise monies ,, i still feel getting a compressor is the right thing to do,, to go nitro like john says gonna cost you probably $400 for reg rent deliver and gas another $150 and you still have to get a bottle set up .,,yup u could get one of those yong hengs for $300 i would not reccomend it because of the repair location place and there crappy rep already ,the AIR VENTURI  NOMAD would be a good score coming out next month,, good repair dept $499 runs on a car battery,,, im thinking of getting one,, i already have a A V compressor but need something for road trips or when i go to the range for the day i can fill my tank anytime,,, and stay shooting my RAW 30 and 25 cal all day long,i know monies are the main decider try the F D and let us know how you guys make out ,good luck HYNZIE

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    crgabel
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    Try Roberts oxygen, I got my best pricing from them for my Nitrogen.
    Craig

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    T3PRanch
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    I pay $60 a year bottle lease and $70 per fill on a 300 pound 6K PSI bottle. 70 cents a day for a bottle lease is approaching highway robbery IMHO!

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    crgabel
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    I’m right about where you are Thurmond. $80.00 covers hazmat fees and 60.00 for change out.
    The regulator cost is a one time charge, and bottles have no moving parts to wear out or break. I just have not investigated the compressors enough but I know of quite a few people that have had mechanical problems. 
    Craig

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    T3PRanch
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    Lowest price bare regulator I have found: https://www.augustindustries.com/adjustable-regulator-0-6000-psi-reg-6000.asp
    Low priced liquid filled high pressure gauges from surpluscenter.com

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    mobilemail
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    I see welding supplies at auctions now and then. What are the chances of buying your own nitrogen bottle at an auction, and just having a supplier fill it?

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    tommyb
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    Thanks gang. This is the OP here. 

    I have read all this information a couple of times and I think I will stay with what I have for now. 

    From what I have read, it looks like I can rent the 6,000 PSI Nitrogen bottle @ .70 day.  This is not bad, but one of the posts indicated the Nitrogen 6000 PSI bottle was 300 lbs!!  How big are these 6,000 PSI bottles as my CF tank is about 18″ high and weighs about 12-15 lbs?  Also, getting / buying a new step down regulator and any other special equipment after I already spent $549 for the CF tank is not worth it to me.  

    Costs me $8.50 per fill for my 74 cu ft. CF Omega tank, and I only have on PCP right now.  I think I am supposed to get around 40 fills from a full 4500 PSI tank, so not sure the N2 is worth it. 

    Am I missing something here?  Sorry, I am a bit dense with this stuff.

     

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    blackdiesel
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    I used N2 as a backup to my paintball shop for about 2 years.  The air we breath is 88% N2 so there’s not a big difference except that N2 is dryer so don’t worry about that.  I paid $8 per month rental and $45 for refills.  I did have to bring the depleted cylinder in and exchange it because the company rented from (Palmers Welding Supplies) did not deliver to sub divisions.  They are 444 CF steel cylinders and are heavy.  I didn’t use a regulator because I filled my tanks from the N2 cylinder and it’s easy to control the output and not go over 4500 psi to the tank.

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    tommyb
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     Blackdiesel – thanks!

    How heavy is N2 tank?
    How many times would you fill N2 tank per year?
    How many PCPs are you filling?
    What cubic foot size for your receiving tank?  Looks like about 74 cu feet

    I’m still trying to rationalize this vs staying with compressed air.  I get that it’s dry.

    thanks, Tom

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    blackdiesel
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    Tom -The number of times I filled will probably be different than most.  I basically used it when the paintball shop was low on air or had too many customers to fill my tank.  Out of the two years I rented it I only had to fill it up 3 times.  The tank in the picture is a 60 min fireman tank so 88 cf size.  I do have several PCPs (19), and some have 250 bar (almost 3600 psi) fill pressure so I did shoot a whole lot and used a lot of air.  The tanks weigh well over 300 lbs.  But I was able to get it on my truck without help.  

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    tommyb
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    Thanks,

    The 300 plus pounds and extra accessories are a deal breaker for me.  Plus, too big of a tank to store.

    Can’t justify this in my mind.

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    sigp220
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    One thought I completely forgot to ask when I was at the weld supply shop was.  If they’d just fill my scuba tank?  This might be an option if they are willing to.

    Dave

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    blackdiesel
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    They get their N2 from a supplier.  Also, I doubt very seriously that they will have a connection to fit your SCBA tank.  

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    tommyb
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    Dave,

    re. having Weld Supply Shop fill your SCBA tank.  I thought I saw an earlier post suggesting “check out the local FD.” 

    My experience in going to the local FD — I went to the local FD, (although, it was for a request to fill up my Carbon Fiber Omega 74 cu foot with compressed air, not N2) and they would not fill.  The FD said as a practice, they don’t fill customer tanks from the public domain because of the liability concerns with reference to testing certifications, compatibility, etc…They referred me to paint ball or dive shops instead.  

    Not sure if Welding Supply shops would have these same “liability” concerns with filling your tank with N2, but agree with the other post that they would not have a connection to fit your tank more than likely. 

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