Update to my research on undersized slugs

Jump to latest Follow Reply
This is 4 32gr slugs out of the same gun at 113yrds going 930fps. Sent that one a little high and it caught the rim of the can and ripped it off the log I had it screwed to. Still the flier was only an inch high. I will test more as the weather improves and decide which weight is better. One thing is for certain, slug diameter is key. I could shoot .249’s at those cans all day and never touch them.
1583243204_10978003605e5e5fc4bc2a54.97106374_7004D10D-FC16-47DE-8603-65FD3C3A27C0.jpeg

 
Upvote 0
Vetmx - What are those .254's sized to for that TJ 1-22? .254" ??? - You mentioned having one gun that shoots a .250" but you had to slow it down. Doesn't sound like the same gun. I always thought my .250" was a tight fit, until I tried the same slug in .2495" ..... Only .0005" smaller and they were laughable. Glad I only made 12.

I recently slowed the velocity in my 1-22" with a .250" slug from 936 - 940 FPS down to 931 - 935 FPS range and it seems to have been an improvement. 

Just wondering how large of OD you put in that gun. 
 
Upvote 0
I live less that 2 miles from Dale (VK slugs). He's awesome! I go to him any time I have questions, and he's always very generous with sharing his knowledge. I've seen his operation, and I've held the lead wire he uses for his slugs in my hand. It's as pure as pure can be. I've taken small lengths of it, laid it across my finger, and watched it just bend in half under it's own weight. Also, Dale has swagged a million slugs in his day. He has the process down to a science. So if you buy his slugs, you can guarantee you're getting a good product.
 
Upvote 0
Talk Dale into making legit size slugs for legit slug guns. I will give him my credit card number and he can just send me a batch every month. Like an automatic bill payment except for slugs. I probably have close to 300 of his left. Here is something you might find interesting. In the desperation to shoot his slugs, I started powder coating them to give them some girth. Five cycles of PC and mine turn out bigger than .254 so I size them down to .254. but they are very hard to chamber and don't shoot well. I sized the PC slugs down to .250 and they chamber with very little resistance. But they still didn't shoot that great, but better. I am going to try to size his powder coated slugs at .253 next. I gave up on 1,2 or 3 coats of PC to reach a certain diameter. I just make them around .255-.257 and size them down. With my luck .251 or .252 will be the magic size for a powder coated slug in my gun and I don't have those size bushings.
 
Upvote 0
I've spoken with Dale regarding this. His operation is much smaller than Nick at NSA. And those custom Corbin swagging dies are very expensive. The potential financial gains would have to outweigh the initial cost to justify the investment. He's in the same boat as Nick from NSA. He makes slugs for the masses. And the majority of slug shooters are using choked barrels. And the choked .22 and .25 barrels seem to dislike slugs that are .003" or .004" larger than the groove diameter at the choke.

Guys that are serious about converting their air rifles to shoot slugs understand the advantage of using un-choked barrels and barrels with custom twist rates. But we constitute 3-5% of the slug shooters.

Trust me my brother..... I'm with you 150% on the desire for slug manufacturers to make slugs for guys shooting un-choked barrels in .22 and .25. In my opinion, the perfect slug size for the un-choked .22 barrel would be .2205 or .221. If .221 didn't shoot good, it could be pushed through a sizing die to drop it to .2205". In 25 caliber, it's a different story. If you're shooting an un-choked LW barrel, the perfect slug size would be .2545 or .254. But the other barrel manufacturers might have a different groove diameter. My Russian Federation barrel has a groove diameter of .252 with a 1:15 twist. I haven't even tried shooting it yet- and testing it requires me to disassemble my current rifle to swap out the barrel. And I haven't fully explored the capabilities of the .22 barrel I have on it now. So swapping out the barrel at this point would be putting the cart before the horse. But this is what I have found.... un-choked barrels are more tolerant of a slug that's slightly too large than a choked barrel is.

Regarding AVS slugs, I wish Stephen would consider expanding his offerings beyond the 2s ogive design and adopt a 1/2 or 3/4 ogive design. The reason I say this is because the 1/2 and 3/4 designs have more concentric surface area for rifling engagement. They seat more concentrically in the lands and the possibility of them canting inside of the barrel is reduced greatly. I have found them to be more stable and accurate than their counterparts in 2s with similar weight. But if Stephen would manufacture his AVS .254 slugs in a 1/2 or 3/4 ogive design, I think their performance would surpass the current 2s design. Just my $.02. But again, it's the initial investment on the part of the manufacturer. But my wife is in business for herself. She's actually owned 2 successful businesses. She told me that when you're a small business owner, you need to give away your services at first to make money. You have to spend money to make money.
 
Upvote 0
If the .25 barrel has a groove diameter of .250, then a .250 to .2505 slug would be perfect. But the Lothar Walther barrel in .25 caliber has a groove diameter of .254". There are custom barrels out there that use a land groove diameter of .245/.250. Those barrels should be tack drivers with the .249 and .250 mass produced ammo. But the LW barrel is designed for air rifles. They're even listed as air rifle barrels. So they have slower twist rates. The choked version chokes down to .249-.250" at the choke. They are designed more for pellets than slugs. I have an unchoked LW barrel in .25. It has a 1:17.7 twist. The twist should lend itself to stability if the stability calculators are accurate. But shooting a .249 or .250 slug from that barrel isn't going to result in great accuracy. It could in the choked version using the .249 or .250 ammo, but the slug is just too loose in the un-choked version. That's where the .254 slugs would shine.

If you ever find the magic combo- the "resonant frequency" for your rifle, engrave it onto the side of the rifle, and don't change it. Lock it in! If you're getting sub MOA groups at 100+ yards, and you're still not satisfied with accuracy results, you need a psychiatric evaluation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LSBAirgunner
Upvote 0
You mentioned the frequency of a rifle. When I first installed my slug barrel, I just set it up like the pellet barrel. Secured in breech with set screw, inside a shroud that runs through the body of the gun supported by orings. My groups were ok. I decided to trick my barrel into believing it is only 8 inches long by really securing it where the shroud goes under the scope through the body of the gun. I eliminated the orings and used shim stock. Eliminated the aluminum tube and went carbon fiber. Installed grub screws to secure shroud from sides and top. Built bushings for inside my shroud, kinda like Air Force airguns use. Put them where I am securing the shroud. My groups shrunk in half after this. The bottom line is floating barrels that aren’t threaded into a receiver are probably not the best thing. I don’t want any POI changes with my gun. A slip fit with two orings and a couple grub screws just begs to have POI changes when bumped around. Not to mention weird barrel harmonics.
 
Upvote 0
If the .25 barrel has a groove diameter of .250, then a .250 to .2505 slug would be perfect. But the Lothar Walther barrel in .25 caliber has a groove diameter of .254". There are custom barrels out there that use a land groove diameter of .245/.250. Those barrels should be tack drivers with the .249 and .250 mass produced ammo. But the LW barrel is designed for air rifles. They're even listed as air rifle barrels. So they have slower twist rates. The choked version chokes down to .249-.250" at the choke. They are designed more for pellets than slugs. I have an unchoked LW barrel in .25. It has a 1:17.7 twist. The twist should lend itself to stability if the stability calculators are accurate. But shooting a .249 or .250 slug from that barrel isn't going to result in great accuracy. It could in the choked version using the .249 or .250 ammo, but the slug is just too loose in the un-choked version. That's where the .254 slugs would shine.

If you ever find the magic combo- the "resonant frequency" for your rifle, engrave it onto the side of the rifle, and don't change it. Lock it in! If you're getting sub MOA groups at 100+ yards, and you're still not satisfied with accuracy results, you need a psychiatric evaluation.
Click to expand...

That helps. I thought Vetmx was using those .254" in a .250" bore. 
 
  • Like
Reactions: TRIPP
Upvote 0
jwrabbit123 said:
I have my thoughts , and here they are I own many slug guns and probably 50 to 60 molds , and I also have spare barrels , If I have a super accurate gun I tailor my ammo to it ,

example if it is unchoked barrel say and it is .300 then I will want a swagged or casted slug .3005 . for best accuracy if this is my bore , and I may modify a few molds to make an exact cast or swag ammo where it needs NO sizing , so I thrive to get a die or mold exact ,



Now I have a few slugs in .22 250 and 257 and I have some guns I just like so yes I also will buy rifle blanks to tailor to my ammo , so my answer is I do both and found this best .I have not found accuracy I can get from a store bought slug , I mean some are shoot-able but for say ,hunting coyotes with my 22 and 30 cal , My ammo is king for me ,as I like solid heavier slugs bettor for this ,



It is like anything else you need to start with a good design slug proven by you to move forward or a gun and power to shoot a certain slug then match it that way , I have casted and swaged now for decades and I love about 6 molds I own out of geeze a hundred , so for me to love it , I go threw alot , I wont waste time on poor quality barrels or poorly designed slugs .
Click to expand...
do u happen to have a swage die in .218 hp u might want to part with?
 
Upvote 0
jwrabbit123 said:
I have my thoughts , and here they are I own many slug guns and probably 50 to 60 molds , and I also have spare barrels , If I have a super accurate gun I tailor my ammo to it ,

example if it is unchoked barrel say and it is .300 then I will want a swagged or casted slug .3005 . for best accuracy if this is my bore , and I may modify a few molds to make an exact cast or swag ammo where it needs NO sizing , so I thrive to get a die or mold exact ,



Now I have a few slugs in .22 250 and 257 and I have some guns I just like so yes I also will buy rifle blanks to tailor to my ammo , so my answer is I do both and found this best .I have not found accuracy I can get from a store bought slug , I mean some are shoot-able but for say ,hunting coyotes with my 22 and 30 cal , My ammo is king for me ,as I like solid heavier slugs bettor for this ,



It is like anything else you need to start with a good design slug proven by you to move forward or a gun and power to shoot a certain slug then match it that way , I have casted and swaged now for decades and I love about 6 molds I own out of geeze a hundred , so for me to love it , I go threw alot , I wont waste time on poor quality barrels or poorly designed slugs .
Click to expand...
well said!
 
Upvote 0
Long_Shot said:
That helps. I thought Vetm.
Click to expand...

b0n3sHunter said:
Yes I’m looking for a die for swaging a slug. Either by hand or arbor press preferably.
Click to expand...
I have a commercial slug business. Been working on things for last 12 months.... Plan to open by April 1...Go to Corbin website and click under SPECIALS.....As of last night, when I spoke with Dave Corbin, he had a few .217 2 die sets, left, and at least one of his CSP-1 or "S" press, which is the most popular swaging press in the world......

Screenshot (1).png
 
Upvote 0
Vetmx said:
I thought about contacting Nick about the same thing. Raptors using TJ barrels may change his way of thinking. My TJ barreled guns don't shoot any of his .25's because they are too small. Personally I think its simple to just offer a .254 and let the committed slug shooters size them down until the barrel is happy. But from a business standpoint I know every Tom, Dick and Harry wanting to jump on the slug bandwagon has a choked barreled pellet gun and a credit card full of hope. As slug guns like the Raptor become more mainstream, he is going to have to make a properly sized slug. I know all my .25's are bought from another source.
Click to expand...
I kinda liked the credit card full of hope phrase.......lol!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JungleShooter
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu