Thanks for sharing that, I can't believe I didn't see this super in depth review. So when he talks about the 12ftlb model does he mean the one with the larger tank?
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Trying so hard to find a reason not to buy Air Arms S510
- Thread starter InTheBlack
- Start date
Ok, let's hear it from the source
I thought I didn't need a regulated rifle... Until I shot with one and saw the difference. When I filmed the review of the .177 S510 a few years back I had just switched from springers, so naturally I was happy just to get 30-40 usable shots from the gun.
Then as things progressed, I had opportunities to shoot (and own) Daystates, Kalibrguns, FXs, Weihrauchs, Steyrs, etc and my eyes were opened to the "way things could be".
When I bought my Wolverine B, I realised the value of having a higher shot count. But of course, this was due to the larger cylinder and not a regulator.
The Wildcat changed everything. Tiny gun with a small, light cylinder... But an impressive shot count due to efficient valve and reg. So I regulated my S510 to try get the best out of it (with good results). However I hate the idea of installing aftermarket regs that void your warranty and can give issues. Just get a rifle that has a factory installed regulator!
I sat with Air Arms in a meeting and told them that a regulator was pretty much non-negotiable. I think they listened to an extent, because the Galahad is supposed to be regulated, but with only 40 shots per fill from the Galahad, it's clear that the gun is still nowhere near as efficient as the Wildcat.
What if there could be a larger cylinder AND a regulator? Enter the Impact - An absolute beast of a rifle. If you turn the reg down to 110 bar you can get 170 shots per fill at 33 foot pounds! Needless to say, it's my new favourite.
I still love the S510, but its difficult to reccommend a gun that is long and heavy but, although very accurate, doesn't have the technology that Daystates and FXs have.
Wait for the Streamline. I saw the first model at IWA, and I can promise you that it is going to make the S510, Huntsman, Marauder etc look like antiques (in terms of performance, not looks)
Matt
I thought I didn't need a regulated rifle... Until I shot with one and saw the difference. When I filmed the review of the .177 S510 a few years back I had just switched from springers, so naturally I was happy just to get 30-40 usable shots from the gun.
Then as things progressed, I had opportunities to shoot (and own) Daystates, Kalibrguns, FXs, Weihrauchs, Steyrs, etc and my eyes were opened to the "way things could be".
When I bought my Wolverine B, I realised the value of having a higher shot count. But of course, this was due to the larger cylinder and not a regulator.
The Wildcat changed everything. Tiny gun with a small, light cylinder... But an impressive shot count due to efficient valve and reg. So I regulated my S510 to try get the best out of it (with good results). However I hate the idea of installing aftermarket regs that void your warranty and can give issues. Just get a rifle that has a factory installed regulator!
I sat with Air Arms in a meeting and told them that a regulator was pretty much non-negotiable. I think they listened to an extent, because the Galahad is supposed to be regulated, but with only 40 shots per fill from the Galahad, it's clear that the gun is still nowhere near as efficient as the Wildcat.
What if there could be a larger cylinder AND a regulator? Enter the Impact - An absolute beast of a rifle. If you turn the reg down to 110 bar you can get 170 shots per fill at 33 foot pounds! Needless to say, it's my new favourite.
I still love the S510, but its difficult to reccommend a gun that is long and heavy but, although very accurate, doesn't have the technology that Daystates and FXs have.
Wait for the Streamline. I saw the first model at IWA, and I can promise you that it is going to make the S510, Huntsman, Marauder etc look like antiques (in terms of performance, not looks)
Matt
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***EDIT*** I see Matt was typing up a post at the same time as I was and beat me to it haha.
Hi IntheBlack, Here are a couple more videos from Matt where he specifically explains the difference between regulated and unregulated guns in great detail and exactly why he chose to modify his own S-510 and install a regulator. Over the last few years I've bought and sold a few dozen different PCP's of varying cost including multiple FX, Daystate, RAW, Marauder, Cricket, BSA, etc., and I've had two different S-510's. I can tell you that they are very well made and are great looking guns and have very accurate barrels and I really enjoyed then while I owned them. That being said, their design while tried and true, is a bit long in the tooth at this point and I've since parted with them and will not likely revisit them unless they go through a bit of an overhaul. For the money, there are just better guns out there on the market now.
The biggest thing that you've already heard, and will hear Matt speak of in these videos, is they are not regulated. He has a great chart that he puts up in this first video that really demonstrates how few consistent shots the gun delivers out of the box compared to after he installs a regulator.
After all the PCPs I've been through, I too can also say I will never buy an unregulated gun again. The lower shot count and large change in velocity while shooting an unregulated gun makes shooting at distances out to 50 yards and beyond much more difficult.
Also, the power wheel on the S-510 is a bit......meh. You really have no way to tell at what velocity you are shooting unless you are either at full power or low power or you chrony the gun if you are somewhere in between. Since the dial doesn't have any truly repeatable markers or indents, you can never know if, when you change the power setting, that you are truly returning to the same power as you might have had before.
I'm actually quite surprised that no one has mentioned the BSA R-10 at this point. It is less expensive, offers pretty much the same package as the S-510 and is regulated and lights out accurate. Also the Cricket is a much better gun for the money, also regulated. I have the full length rifle version of the Cricket and it is, in my opinion, a much more capable gun than the S-510. Also the FX Royale line are awesome awesome guns. Huge shot count, great regulator in them, wickedly accurate, super smooth action and very quiet.
The third video is from Niles, from the Airgun gear show doing a review of the BSA R-10. He's reviewed countless guns over the years and has been a fan of the S-510 in his videos. If I recall correctly, he actually says at the end that he feels the R-10 is a better gun than the S-510.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose! Have fun looking and doing the research, there are a ton of great PCP guns out there and looking for a new one is definitely part of the fun!
P.S. I agree with Matt about the Streamline. I've been waiting patiently until I have one to try for myself.
Hi IntheBlack, Here are a couple more videos from Matt where he specifically explains the difference between regulated and unregulated guns in great detail and exactly why he chose to modify his own S-510 and install a regulator. Over the last few years I've bought and sold a few dozen different PCP's of varying cost including multiple FX, Daystate, RAW, Marauder, Cricket, BSA, etc., and I've had two different S-510's. I can tell you that they are very well made and are great looking guns and have very accurate barrels and I really enjoyed then while I owned them. That being said, their design while tried and true, is a bit long in the tooth at this point and I've since parted with them and will not likely revisit them unless they go through a bit of an overhaul. For the money, there are just better guns out there on the market now.
The biggest thing that you've already heard, and will hear Matt speak of in these videos, is they are not regulated. He has a great chart that he puts up in this first video that really demonstrates how few consistent shots the gun delivers out of the box compared to after he installs a regulator.
After all the PCPs I've been through, I too can also say I will never buy an unregulated gun again. The lower shot count and large change in velocity while shooting an unregulated gun makes shooting at distances out to 50 yards and beyond much more difficult.
Also, the power wheel on the S-510 is a bit......meh. You really have no way to tell at what velocity you are shooting unless you are either at full power or low power or you chrony the gun if you are somewhere in between. Since the dial doesn't have any truly repeatable markers or indents, you can never know if, when you change the power setting, that you are truly returning to the same power as you might have had before.
I'm actually quite surprised that no one has mentioned the BSA R-10 at this point. It is less expensive, offers pretty much the same package as the S-510 and is regulated and lights out accurate. Also the Cricket is a much better gun for the money, also regulated. I have the full length rifle version of the Cricket and it is, in my opinion, a much more capable gun than the S-510. Also the FX Royale line are awesome awesome guns. Huge shot count, great regulator in them, wickedly accurate, super smooth action and very quiet.
The third video is from Niles, from the Airgun gear show doing a review of the BSA R-10. He's reviewed countless guns over the years and has been a fan of the S-510 in his videos. If I recall correctly, he actually says at the end that he feels the R-10 is a better gun than the S-510.
Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose! Have fun looking and doing the research, there are a ton of great PCP guns out there and looking for a new one is definitely part of the fun!
P.S. I agree with Matt about the Streamline. I've been waiting patiently until I have one to try for myself.
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One thing you might want to wait for is the ataman rifles regulated and about the same price.
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I purchased the 510 in .177. Very accurate rifle. I was impressed with the shots that Matt could do with it. The shot curve does throw off accuracy a bit. I would like it better with a regulator. The reason I have not installed one is because I use it at home for targets mostly. I went to a tethered setup which eliminates the shot curve. Here is a review I did with the gun tethered with accuracy and data. /topic/tethered-bottle-shot-groupssetup/
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I was about to suggest the BSA R10 too. If traditional style rifles are the preference over bullpups then it has to be worth a look. It's regulated, accurate, it has a bottle instead of a tube and the ones I have seen had very attractive grain on their wood stocks.
There are a number of good options in that price range.
There are a number of good options in that price range.
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Dude, you know you want the 510. Stop trying to talk yourself out of it and just buy the damned thing.
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"
Really appreciate your input! I do plan on doing both, hunting and plinking, but I imagine in the beginning, say for learning the gun it’s going to get annoying refilling it so often huh? Price to pay I guess. But are you just throwing the number 20 out there? Earlier Tominco said he were getting around 40 within peak pressure, that’s a really big difference."
20 shots in the "sweet spot" at full power is what I got with the S510 CARBINE. It gets more shots but the curve is bigger thats all. At short ranges it isn't that noticeable.
You may possibly get 40 useable shots with the carbine if you are content to shoot at 30 yards and under I suppose. Tominco has the full size rifle with the longer air cylinder. He probably does get 40 shots.
Price you pay for a relatively powerful airgun with a small cylinder and low fill pressure.
20 shots in the "sweet spot" at full power is what I got with the S510 CARBINE. It gets more shots but the curve is bigger thats all. At short ranges it isn't that noticeable.
You may possibly get 40 useable shots with the carbine if you are content to shoot at 30 yards and under I suppose. Tominco has the full size rifle with the longer air cylinder. He probably does get 40 shots.
Price you pay for a relatively powerful airgun with a small cylinder and low fill pressure.
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This. I think they are going for around $1300. I have been looking at the .25 and THAT caliber gets around 48 shots on a 250 bar fill, and around 36 shots on a 210 bar fill.
Clarification note for confusing Kalibrgun naming: we are talking about the Rifle/Carbine, not bullpup
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Thanks everyone for the advice, clarification and expanding on what we thought we knew.
It seems I, too am waiting for the Streamline hahaha
It seems I, too am waiting for the Streamline hahaha
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I installed the Robert Lane regulator in mine. Increased the shot count quite a bit. Installation is simple enough, if you follow the directions. Air arms really does need to start installing regulators as standard.
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I added a regulator to my Wolverine and get 100 shots per fill at 31 Ftlb. Reg is at 150 BAR. It is shooting so well and is so quiet that I have stopped trying to refine my tune. After reading Matt's post with the impact reg set so low I may have to start over. I am not planning on doing that any time soon though. I have a compressor and a buddy bottle... And it's been a while since I did 100 shots away from my backyard range.
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In my limited view the Streamline and 510 are very different guns. The 510 has fit and finish that you will not get in the, for FX, budget friendly Streamline. You will get greater power and more shots. You can get a 510 now and it is a known quantity with no new gun teething problems. Given the long waits for the Impact you will need to be a very patient man waiting on FX. You could pick up a used 510 to see how you like it while waiting on FX. I really like the stats on the Streamline but am not willing to pay that kind of money on an unknown gun given some of the issues written about here. Currently waiting on the AT 44 Nova. Same known AT44 but with massive air supply.
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