To lube or not to lube

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To elaborate, diesel engines ignite the injected fuel solely on compression. I understand the use of glow plugs to start the engine but my point remains. The oil ignited in the springer compression cylinder is a result of extreme compression. High heat is produced as a result of compression. Keep in mind I'm discussing factory springs. Not aftermarket.
 
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I'm beginning to wonder if the stories of mainspring breakage on RWS airguns is a result of not using chamber lube. Seems to me that a dry piston seal and chamber wall could cause some piston bindage when fired. This binding...or catching...could create an uneven stress on the mainspring. That in turn could cause spring to break. Very little lube is needed with a synthetic cup. Two drops every 500-1000 shots is OK. Leather seals need to be kept wet with oil to prevent them from shrinking.
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I for one don't think a lack of chamber lube had anything to do with my four RWS springs breaking prematurely. A new factory replacement lasted only 1000 shots before coming apart. Maybe it was a bad heat treat process on a batch of them. Since switching to Vortek replacements I have had no issues. One has 18K compression cycles with no indication of weakening. I have two spares and seals on hand. Just a matter of time your RWS spring will look like this one. Get a Vortek spring and a seal ordered to have on hand when it goes.



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I have heard figures more like 1000 degrees for a nanosecond and although too much will be worse even a small amount of anything combustible will combust under those temps. I hardly buy any new airguns and not sure what they recommend these days. The friction from a dry seal could not possibly create temps any where near combustion and again if seals are properly fitted and moly applied to the piston a small amount should be present in the compression tube for the seal to come in contact with. A moly seal would again only enhance this. I have not used chamber lube in any of my collection and will not be doing so in the foreseeable future especially with my higher powered guns which is a substantial portion. As another thought if they do recommend lube it's another resource of sales and potential repair income for them or their sellers. I will not be so bold as to tell someone to not use it if they really want I just never will and if asked I'll give all the things I just mentioned as to why I don't.
 
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I did use a drop or two of synthetic oil every 1000 or so shots and lubed the factory spring as shown in the RWS owners manual. The first two shots sounded like a .22 rimfire round going off. It took 10-15 shots for the accuracy to settle down. The springs still broke much sooner than I expected. Both my 34's had two factory springs break each. Since switching to the Vortek springs and pro-seals months ago it seems like they will never break. I no longer lube the chambers with oil. Instead I smear a light coat of synthetic grease on the outside of the seal skirt. The springs are coated with the thick sticky grease that comes in the Vortek package and stays put. No need to oil springs. I firmly believe there is no correlation with chamber lube influencing spring life. All this info is my opinion and works for me.



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The old factory seal in the 124 was junk. They turned to a crumbled mess due to the fact they were not the same quality we have today. Chamber oil wouldn't have helped it either. I use Maccari piston seals in my TX200's and they will last for a very long time. I've had them go for 50,000 pellets with only the moly lube used during a reseal. I don't know how long the Maccari seal will last, but I've never worn one out and I shoot around 20,000 pellets a year.
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They turned into a crumbled mess because of heat generated upon firing. This heat would be compounded with lack of lube.
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Totally 100% wrong. Why don't the seals in my TX200 ever crumble. Had some in guns for many years and, as I said, 50,000 shots. They far outlast the spring in many cases. Original Air Arms seals from the early 2000's would also crumble from age only. I've had packaged seals, from the older materials, NEVER PUT IN A GUN, crumble to bits when removed from the package. I have Maccari seals, in guns, that are 15+ years old that are still flexible. Modern seal materials are just far superior to those from the 70's and 80's. I have 8 TX's and only shoot 1, for the most part. The others are in their cases for a year or two at a time. I bring them out and start shooting, when I fancy a change. They perform flawlessly without ever having any snake oil dropped down the transfer port. 
 
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Since you refuse to believe what everyone here is telling you, do this-



Send an Email to Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns, and pose your question to him.

Hector is a Diana afficianado and is very well versed in spring rifle tuning and shooting in the Field Target arena. 



I already know what his answer will be, but go ahead and ask him to mollify yourself.
 
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I did use a drop or two of synthetic oil every 1000 or so shots and lubed the factory spring as shown in the RWS owners manual. The first two shots sounded like a .22 rimfire round going off. It took 10-15 shots for the accuracy to settle down. The springs still broke much sooner than I expected. Both my 34's had two factory springs break each. Since switching to the Vortek springs and pro-seals months ago it seems like they will never break. I no longer lube the chambers with oil. Instead I smear a light coat of synthetic grease on the outside of the seal skirt. The springs are coated with the thick sticky grease that comes in the Vortek package and stays put. No need to oil springs. I firmly believe there is no correlation with chamber lube influencing spring life. All this info is my opinion and works for me.



1576105452_6243304675df175eca89966.96632085_DSC03795.JPG
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You could be right on the correlation between chamber lube and spring life. I can bet that if you had a brand new RWS airgun and the mainspring broke after a few thousand shots the first thing you would be asked by the manufacturer is if you performed routine lubing. If you said no, and I was told that it wasn't needed, what do you think the warranty claims department would tell you ? Goodbye warranty coverage! I've always lubed my springers according to the manufacturer guidelines. I usually get one dieseling shot that produces the "crack " Rarely twice. As Tom Gaylord's video mentions. A wisp of smoke in the barrel is not dieseling. Nor does it produce the harmful effects of dieseling. That wisp is just telling you your chamber is properly lubricated and no harmful consequences is occurring. As I mentioned, both Weihrauch and Diana advise on the use of chamber lube sparingly. Some people use to much and to frequent and that is not a good thing.
 
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The old factory seal in the 124 was junk. They turned to a crumbled mess due to the fact they were not the same quality we have today. Chamber oil wouldn't have helped it either. I use Maccari piston seals in my TX200's and they will last for a very long time. I've had them go for 50,000 pellets with only the moly lube used during a reseal. I don't know how long the Maccari seal will last, but I've never worn one out and I shoot around 20,000 pellets a year.
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They turned into a crumbled mess because of heat generated upon firing. This heat would be compounded with lack of lube.
Click to expand...

Totally 100% wrong. Why don't the seals in my TX200 ever crumble. Had some in guns for many years and, as I said, 50,000 shots. They far outlast the spring in many cases. Original Air Arms seals from the early 2000's would also crumble from age only. I've had packaged seals, from the older materials, NEVER PUT IN A GUN, crumble to bits when removed from the package. I have Maccari seals, in guns, that are 15+ years old that are still flexible. Modern seal materials are just far superior to those from the 70's and 80's. I have 8 TX's and only shoot 1, for the most part. The others are in their cases for a year or two at a time. I bring them out and start shooting, when I fancy a change. They perform flawlessly without ever having any snake oil dropped down the transfer port.
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You would think with the notoriety of a FEINWERKBAU the seals would be have been made from a better material. Especially those FWB 124/127's made in the 1980's.
 
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Since you refuse to believe what everyone here is telling you, do this-



Send an Email to Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns, and pose your question to him.

Hector is a Diana afficianado and is very well versed in spring rifle tuning and shooting in the Field Target arena. 



I already know what his answer will be, but go ahead and ask him to mollify yourself.
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Does Hector work for RWS or HW in their research and development department? Opinions are just that....opinions. Including mine ! And like I said, I'm talking about factory stock guns. Not those with aftermarket parts.
 
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I have heard figures more like 1000 degrees for a nanosecond and although too much will be worse even a small amount of anything combustible will combust under those temps. I hardly buy any new airguns and not sure what they recommend these days. The friction from a dry seal could not possibly create temps any where near combustion and again if seals are properly fitted and moly applied to the piston a small amount should be present in the compression tube for the seal to come in contact with. A moly seal would again only enhance this. I have not used chamber lube in any of my collection and will not be doing so in the foreseeable future especially with my higher powered guns which is a substantial portion. As another thought if they do recommend lube it's another resource of sales and potential repair income for them or their sellers. I will not be so bold as to tell someone to not use it if they really want I just never will and if asked I'll give all the things I just mentioned as to why I don't.
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I have used a temperature gun on the reciever of my Sig prior to firing it. The receiver tube will jump 10 degrees with just 8-10 shots. Imagine a session of 30...40...50...shots in a row ! The piston seal does get subjected to quite a bit of heat. I for one will use chamber lube according to the maintenance guide for the particular gun.



You stated " As another thought if they do recommend lube it's another resource of sales and potential repair income for them or their sellers "

You can't really believe that do you ?? That's a little conspiratorial for me to believe! It's America! We can all believe what we want.
 
Upvote 0
Since you refuse to believe what everyone here is telling you, do this-



Send an Email to Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns, and pose your question to him.

Hector is a Diana afficianado and is very well versed in spring rifle tuning and shooting in the Field Target arena. 



I already know what his answer will be, but go ahead and ask him to mollify yourself.
Click to expand...

Does Hector work for RWS or HW in their research and development department? Opinions are just that....opinions. Including mine ! And like I said, I'm talking about factory stock guns. Not those with aftermarket parts.
Click to expand...

Yes he does actually.

He works pretty closely with the RWS product development team.
 
Upvote 0
Since you refuse to believe what everyone here is telling you, do this-



Send an Email to Hector Medina at Connecticut Custom Airguns, and pose your question to him.

Hector is a Diana afficianado and is very well versed in spring rifle tuning and shooting in the Field Target arena. 



I already know what his answer will be, but go ahead and ask him to mollify yourself.
Click to expand...

Does Hector work for RWS or HW in their research and development department? Opinions are just that....opinions. Including mine ! And like I said, I'm talking about factory stock guns. Not those with aftermarket parts.
Click to expand...

Yes he does actually.

He works pretty closely with the RWS product development team.
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Then why do FWB, HW, and RWS even sell and reccomend chamber lube ? Surely you don't believe in the conspiracy that DualMagMike has eluded to? So if the spring on my RWS breaks and if the manufacturer representative asks me if I performed the recommended maintenance I can say Hector Medina said that I don't need to do that ? And all will be well regarding warranty?? I'll let someone else try that first and see how it goes.
 
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" They are attempting to sell you more products, plain as that. "



So the answer is YES ! You do believe it's a conspiracy? OK !!

My last post on this subject as the dead horse has been beat enough.

I think keeping a light micro film layer of silicone on the chamber wall of a springer is a good thing. It surely isn't good to hurt anything. DONE !
 
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Well I cant speak to the other manufacturers but for some additional clarity the owners manual from my brand new HW50 states the following and i do not see any sort of oil offered by Weihrauch on their website or their current catalog.

" The lubrication of your system (piston, piston seal, main spring) was already applied during assembly. With normal use it has to be renewed when the piston seal or the main spring have to be exchanged. " (presumably by an authorize service provider)

So I would say that if you are trying to keep the gun stock and without modification to stay within factory warranty coverage then I would stick closely to what your owner manual states as far as if additional lubrication is recommended or is acceptable.

If whether or not a drop or two of chamber oil would do any harm who's to say, perhaps it depends on the gun and the materials used in its manufacture.
 
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Conspiracy, strong and incorrect word buddy and what does America have to do with anything I stated? Fact is more like it, income is produced from sales and parts, these are facts. I'm also pretty sure I recall where Theoben recommended to never use chamber lube in at least one of their manuals.
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Producing income from sales and parts is one thing. You stated below in a previous post :

" As another thought if they do recommend lube it's another resource of sales and potential repair income for them or their sellers "

What do you mean by POTENTIAL REPAIR INCOME? I read that to mean the manufacturer wants you to use chamber lube because they know damage will result from using it....dieseling...spring breakage..etc: Are you saying they want you to use chamber oil in order for the gun to be damaged from its use ? If so, that's where the conspiracy is found in your beliefs.
 
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