Question for FX – Is this normal for the Wildcat ST barrel?

Forums Dealer & Manufacturer Feedback Question for FX – Is this normal for the Wildcat ST barrel?

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    FearnLoading
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    Wow. This is rare man. I’ve owned an fx before and I know several others who still do but have never seen such a problem. My fx shot 1-1.5 inch groups at 100 yards. In fact over time (250+ shots) the accuracy got better. Wonder what fx will say about this one. Do keep us posted. 

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    KenSkylight
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    That’s right.
    There are many the get good barrels and the accuracy is very good.
    But there are also some how get for the same money a bad barrel.
    And this must not be at the price!

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    hsnmz
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    @kenskylight any update regarding the barrel issue ?

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    KenSkylight
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    “hsnmz”@KenSkyLight any update regarding the barrel issue ?
    
Yes, my brand new .25 Impact also has Berrel problems.  
    Here are the pictures: 

      

    The gun is so inaccurate that I have to watch to do not hit myself!

    And for this I paid 2000+ thanks FX!!!

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    KenSkylight
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    OK now I understand!
    At 25 yard shoots my berrel also hole in hole, at 50 yard 2 inch groups and at 75yard there are then 4 inch + with the best pellets!! 
    By a 2000 + gun I expect even at 100+ yards 2 inch groups! 

    With LW barrels I have never accuracy problems…

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    PlanB
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    i have a 22 wildcat, i like it but my shots wander a little more than with my royale400. i would like to polish my barrel but i dont know how to get the shroud off. if i polish the barrel with shrour on, it will leave a mess inside shroud.
    thanks i hope

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    RomeoAlfa
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    Thanks for posting this.  Is it just me or is the barrel not even at the end?

    I really like alot of things that FX did with the Impact, but I feel they dropped the ball by using a smoothtwist barrel, using brass fitting on the end of the barrel, using a thumb screw to lock the barrel in place instead of multiple torqued fasteners, and not having MOA can’t built into the picatinny rail.  Also, the extra barrels and magazines are priced crazy high.  You can buy an entire gun for the price of the barrel and magazine.

    A while back Sniperqty did some testing of the smoothtwist barrels and from what I understand his results were that they were not as accurate at distance as the LW barrels.

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    KenSkylight
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    Not only Sniperqty also others have made videos about the phenomenon.
    This video is very good but unfortunately not in English :/

    Was would prove in the video; ST barrels are good in a short distance but not at long distance shooting.
    You need luck to get a accurate ST barrel for long distance shooting

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    blackhawk
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    Thanks for the info people. As re-loader for military and long range rifling I had my share of experience with crowning. A professional and expensive rifle of mine was ruined a few years ago by the weapons smith who shortened and put a new crown on my LW match barrel. After getting bad results, made picks and sent to LW. Their remarks where devastating and the boy who ruined the rifle was fired.  
    My other rifles got just a new crowning and made them into prime shooters with my Blaser 93 LRS. My re-crowned Remington 700P was even on par with the much more expensive Blaser.
    About barrels …………. before I bought the Remington 700P, I was told that it would be 50% to get a Remmy with a prime barrel. Some of my friends bought also Remington 700P’s. Straight out of the box we noted some deviation when competing in the same configuration. Changing the loads,  all 4 rifles could obtain almost same accuracy. 

    One of the rifles lagged behind. After inspection we noted some irregularities in the rifling of the barrel. After changing the barrel with a new factory one, problems gone.

    As I see it rifling and crowning should be immaculate.  With regular firearms we always want to see a shining barrel inside. If not, sooner or later we will find out on the range what happens. 
    Breaking in a barrel is also an issue with firearms. First 10 shots, after every shot brush into the barrel to clean it. After these initial 10 shots, cleaning after every 10 shots brush the barrel clean again. After this the pores inside the barrel should be equalized.

    FX introduced ST rifling, In the last part of the barrel there is rifling. I saw some barrel photo’s with problem barrels from you people publicized. For me it was a horror to see. Taken into account  that rifling also takes part in the last part of the ST barrel means that this ST rifling should be more immaculate than with normal firearms and conventional airguns. If residue remains in the rifling in the end of the ST barrel, the barrel cannot produce enough twist to deliver the pellet. We think one of the solutions in the ST barrel to make the lands and groves more deeper.   

    Regular can be the only solution if the barrel wat 100% factory ok.

    I read a lot about airgunning and going to buy me the first one. It was going to be an FX Wildcat and Royale 500. Wildcat is a novice and innovative design. But the accuracy is as good as the barrel and the shooter. I will cancel the  FX’s,will replace them with an Air Ams S510E with a HUMA regulator and a Weihrauch 100 T FSB with bullpup conversion kit. Saves me altogether a 1000USD.   As an old Engineer from Heckler & Koch told me “das neue muss sich noch immer beweisen”, translated “the new concepts should still prove themselves,so many years the H&K G36 has proven to have flaws.I had the sporter derivative of the G36 ,SLK 8. After the rifle was 4 times returned, I was refunded the money. Luckily I had my ol G3/HK41 still available. 

    Bottomline,innovative is not always good and I am really curious  about the QA of the FX barrel departments. New concepts need much more additional QA control in its initial stages…………

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    I truly feel sorry for the people who have received an FX rifle with a questionable barrel, however with that said; between my brother and myself we own four FX smooth twist rifles and every one of them are shooters.  We own 3, .22 and 1, .30 FX and they are all incredible. 

    Why do I bring this up?  While it is obvious there are QC issues noted on this forum and others concerning the questionable barrel that slips out to the consumer (yes I know, it should not happen), I do not think the smooth twist barrel design in of itself is the problem.  In fact if I had my choice between two rifles, one with a smooth twist and one with a different high-end barrel, I would pick the smooth twist every time.  Why you ask?  For the competitive shooting I do, out to 125 yards, they are accurate and nearly maintenance free.  The other high-end barrels we own are just as accurate – no more, no less; but are also maintenance pains-in-the-butt. 

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    Besageezer
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    I have found FX smooth twist in 177 to be very pelley fussy. I have tried all the well known brands and some obscure brands from foreign shores, approx 40 different types.. Out of all those tried, Webley Accupel seem to be the most accurate. JSB, Daystate, H&N all give good results but Accupel have the edge. I have 9 rifles, all with LW barrels and they all shoot to their most accurate with different pellets. Suprisingly the only 22 I have is late 80’s manufacture and also WL barreled, this proved more of a challenge to find an accurate pellet but perseverence proved it to Gamo Pro Hunter which to my amazment produced a one hole group from a bench rest at 30yards.
    With a cleaning rod I pushed a 177 wad cutter pellet through my smoth twist barrel to see it lightly engraved on the head and tail with rifling marks, in comparison I did the same with another pellet from the same batch in an old pre 60’s Walther 10m target rifle, the engraving was much more pronounced and deeper. This begs the question as to why both guns can be seriously accurate when one barrel is obviously tighter in the bore than the other. Any explanations?

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    blackhawk
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    Metallurgy and speed is probably playing up in the (Wildcat) ST barrels.

    As I understood the acceleration in the barrel is tremendous. Than the pellet is wacked into lands/groves at the end of the barrel which also tapers.
    Temperature can be such as, I understood, that the pellet can slightly melt and leaves tiny deposits in the pores of the barrel.
    The question remains if the metal structure of the barrel itself is also not deformed with such temperature and the pellet ramming into lands/grooves which is tapering at the same time as well. Energy needs to go somewhere.
    Looking at the barrel pics of the Wildcat barrel it is surely damaged in the end part of the rifling. Not in the part with without the lands.grooves.

    Cleaning the barrel like a firearm with for example aggressive fluid like Robla is the only option. But nevertheless if the tiny lead deposits under high pressure and temperature are forced into the pores of the barrel, who can deny no structural change ?.

    It looks like cold fusion welding old style. In de old times Japanese swords were made of 3 types of steel with different hardness.  The cutting edge the hardest steel. The back of softer steel. After the cold fusion welding (hammering) both metals stick to each other. On molecular level the two steels are welded.

    That means that the ftp, barrel material and production process of barrel is important The regulator used in the Wildcat is I understood a high quality one. But ……….. how are the factory settings of the regulator of each Wildcat?
    If I feed my Blaser 93 with a specific factory bullet from a specific brand and type, I will have great results. Other brands might have worse results. I can decide to start reloading to get best results….. of course not possible with pellets of airguns.

    The only possibility to have some influence is on the regulator in the airgun and of course the choice of pellets.
    As understood Wildcat has no option to regulate the pellet to a slower speed.
    If I had a Wildcat with such barrel problems, I would of course ask for a new barrel (or go LW) and order a new regulator with a lower settings.

    keep me informed

             
     

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    Deleted Account

    Why then do others not see these detrimental metallurgy/speed issues in all smooth twist barrels?

     

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    weatherby
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    Be aware that this accuracy issue doesn’t necessarily has to be caused by the barrel……

    A couple of months ago, I bought a R400 black pepper which I regulated myself with the drop in FX reg.

    Although the rifle was shooting at pretty tight ES, it just did not group well.
    Suspect nr 1 was the barrel, but first I tried some other things.
    SHP valve, regular valve, hammerweight or without, different speeds, different reg. pressure, but none of them had success.
    The grouping really opened up, or it shot some clusters in a random direction.
    Funny thing was that my gun sometimes sounded different, and when it did, it was definitely a flyer.

    Fed up with it, I machined my well proven BSA barrel to fit the R400. Well…… it still wouldn’t group…….
    Thinking it over for an even longer time, I replaced the reg for an other one, and guess what…… it is shooting one holers at 50m now, even with the ST barrel.

    Conclusion, don’t blame the barrel too soon, it might be caused by something completely different……. I know the ST’s CAN shoot, and also at long range. I’ve had 8, and still have 3 Royale based guns, and they are all shooting like lasers (now😆)

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    blackhawk
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    QA issues, or better instructions from FX what to use or not? Souping up a gun can lead to problems.
     

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    blackhawk
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    what regulator was used as a replacement? New FX regulator,   HUMA or Lane ??

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    weatherby
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    “blackhawk”what regulator was used as a replacement? New FX regulator,   HUMA or Lane ??

    Swapped reg with of one of my other Royales to troubleshoot, there are no aftermarket drop in reg’s for Royales AFAIK.
    I don’t mind voiding the warranty, as I am in the lucky position that I can fix just about everything myself :)

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    blackhawk
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    “weatherby”

    “blackhawk”what regulator was used as a replacement? New FX regulator,   HUMA or Lane ??

    Swapped reg with of one of my other Royales to troubleshoot, there are no aftermarket drop in reg’s for Royales AFAIK.
    I don’t mind voiding the warranty, as I am in the lucky position that I can fix just about everything myself :)

    Hey……  that’s interesting. Beside fluke “problem” barrels from the FX Wildcat (and maybe Impact) range, might be that FX probably uses different regulators in different batches of the same rifle?? 

    This lead deposits in the barrel as shown in the photo’s …………. reminds me about my 2 Remington 700P both in ,300 WinMag.
    One shot fantastic, the other had sometimes a bad temper.
    After a good scrub with a (brass) brush dipped in Robla and later with Outers and after this with Ballistol cured the problem for the second Remmi. Results as good like nr.1.

    My conclusion is that same rifles, even from same production batches, have different temperaments.
    So I knew that Remmi nr.2 needed much more cleaning.
    That could have different reasons.

    I know that LW and CZ barrels have cold hammering production procedures for their firearms. The cleaning treatment for my firearms, I surely going to Use for my new airguns.

    For FX I am totally in the dark. FX production or Husqvarna or Sako? What kind of cleaning procedure is really allowed for the ST barrels from FX? Especially for the newer types they are throwing on the market.

     
    I would scrub the FX Wild Cat with my procedure. If the problem remains I would surely now order a replacement reg or another custom one.

    As you also know Weatherby is that DOPE is from extreme importance to achieve best results. Taking apart your gun and experiment within safety limits is a must.

    But Airguns tend to be mechanically more complex as I see. When I get mine, first thing I will totally disassemble the thing. I also not care about warranty

    Thanks for the info Weatherby.

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    gorgata
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    idk you say st barrels are not good out at longer yards yet  ted holdover just did a sub moa at 100 yards and took bench rest this year if all your doing is shooting and not tuning that could be part of the issue I know to get my wildcat to 1″groups at 75 it took a good bit of fiddling and that’s not even shooting 1000+ pellets yet and ive also shot probly 15 kinds of .25 cals threw it before I found my magical unicorn

    ​instead of trying to polish threw lead pellets try doing a polish with a mop manual there is a few posts on how to do that I did it to my marauder and it did wonders

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