Titanium Screws Titanium Barrel Carrier on FX Impact

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skygear

skygear

Member
Jun 9, 2015
404
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https://www.facebook.com/djmotomike/, United State
The journey started hunting Iguana. The salty gulf air is harsh on any metals that oxidize. In this case. Any of the black oxide steel on the Impact. Including the scope rings, barrel, trigger group, screws, etc. anything exterior exposed to the elements. I cleaned religiously with an oiled cloth and would put her away. 



Something had to give. I started looking at STAINLESS STEEL since thats what most use in a Marine environment. Cost on the hardware wasn't hateful at first. Then I went over the deepens and looked at tube. Well, Metric SS tube in USA isn't the most cost effective thing. Then I considered the Aluminum custom ones Raf was making. It is aluminum and if it corrodes, I'm back in the same boat. Stewed on it and was looking at other materials and solutions. 

Carbon fiber Barrel carrier? Well, I was told a hard no from a few trusted in the industry. I still wanted to try. Didn't solve the Screw issue. 

paint the screws? No, Every time you turn the screws, you remove the paint. Becomes an hassle. 

TITANIUM. Lighter then Black Oxide steely ~60% and even more when compared to Stainless. Looks similar to stainless. However, no galling issues and we can personalize by anodizing ... Heat or Electro and anyone at their house can do any of these processes with household items. Corrosive resistance? Yep, against most everything except some acids that aren't in the wild. Anodizing it and messing up? Sand paper or WHIX and back to naked titanium. But I want it BLACK to match my gun and the theme it is already. Well, there is a heat and oil anodizing process you can do at your home,. The Dark bronze from heat looks great too. I like the bare titanium look so far the best. Matches my watch. Little carbon fiber maybe in the future for the stiffener. 

Screws were horribly priced in the USA from $6-$13 EACH SCREW!!!!! So I sourced a manufacturer and ordered 5k of each size . Currently making go e other things too. 



Here is what she looks like now. Any Ideas or feedback is welcome. Easiest to get me direct on FB /djmotomike or pm for other contact details as I'm not the most active here. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALk4wA7BZiU
 
TITANIUM. Lighter then Black Oxide steely ~60% and even more when compared to Stainless. Looks similar to stainless. However, no galling issues and we can personalize by anodizing ... Heat or Electro and anyone at their house can do any of these processes with household items. Corrosive resistance? Yep, against most everything except some acids that aren't in the wild. Anodizing it and messing up? Sand paper or WHIX and back to naked titanium. But I want it BLACK to match my gun and the theme it is already. Well, there is a heat and oil anodizing process you can do at your home,. The Dark bronze from heat looks great too. I like the bare titanium look so far the best. Matches my watch. Little carbon fiber maybe in the future for the stiffener. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALk4wA7BZiU

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Titanium is still susceptible to galling if used wrong. Next to the galling a potential problem can be introduced by using titanium together with aluminum in humid and salty conditions: it is called galvanic corrosion. The titanium will start acting as a Cathode and the Aluminum as an Anode if there is an electrolyte in between them (salty water) and due to the galvanic corrosion the Anode will be corroded. Make sure you keep this in mind and check it every once in a while 😉
 
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You're not wrong. In the FX Impact though, the barrel is always separated from the rest of the aluminum parts by the o-rings that keep it centered and balanced in the front of the block and the back. 



Addressing the galling again not incorrect. Less so than the other hardware that was used. As you stated when used correctly it's fine. 



Other than those two things, what do you think?
 
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Just so all knows, in our trade we used to make galvanized drain pans that went under any piece of equipment that went up in the attic that carried an evaporator coil, as a back up should the factory interior pan clogged up. The drain pan was piped to a janitors sink, where if water was seen coming out of this pipe that meant there was a problem. The plumber who piped off of the pan used copper, so in the shop we would solder a stub of 3/4” copper out for him to attach to.

iif you look at the charts, copper and galvanized do not mix. Just because the two touched didn’t mean electrolysis would start. It needed a third ingredient, and that was moisture. If a gun gets wet, like most all guns do cause us boys like to go out with weapons in the elements, we just need to do our due diligence and give it a good oil wipe down, like we did with our powder burners. 

Ive discussed the titanium conversion extensively with the OP, and his main reasons were weight savings. I just did my conversion to stainless just recently, and saved all the original hardware in the baggies the stainless fasteners came in. All the baggies were in one larger zip lock bag, and when I grabbed them all at once, it made me realize that there was a bit of weight there when you bunch all those old fasteners together. 

Lastly, if we look at an impact, the brass transfer port thimble is attached directly to a dissimilar metal. But nothing will happen unless moisture gets in there. If someone got his impact soaking wet and did a half @$$ wipe down on it and put it away, well, they deserve to have things rust out on them.
 
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Yes, and that’s why after I posted those charts I made it clear that even in my trade, dissimilar metals are used all the time provided no moisture, condensate, etc will ever be in the area, so as not to speed up the oxidation process.

In my years out working in the field, I’ve been on a lot of roof tops, seen a lot of different metals from copper, lead, galvanized, brass, aluminum, stainless steel, etc, all exposed to the elements. Metal, all metal, will oxidize and crap out over time. 

Heck, stainless steel? Used to be that was the metal of choice, and all would say nothing could touch it. Well, I’ve seen first hand what happens to stainless steel vent hoods in areas where soldering is performed, around salamoniac and muriatic acid. Just those two things being in the same vicinity as stainless, will start to rot it out.

if you’re ever on top of a roof of a restaurant, take a look at the grease fan, that pulls all the cooking fumes and grease out of the kitchen. Those fans are either made of aluminum or stainless. Sure, those metals last longer, but they eat away just like all others.

Where I envy the use of titanium for sure is in the weight savings.
 
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You guys do realize people are making titanium Air vessels and using them with other dissimilar metals?

Yeah they are making lots of things in titanium. But you yourself said that the salty air corrodes blued steel quickly, so it’s the perfect environment for galvanic corrosion.

To help you understand that table a bit better, that list of metals is in that order for a good reason. It lists the most active metals at the top and the more noble they are, the lower they are on the list. Se how zinc is right at the top, that’s why they make sacrificial anodes for boats out of it. That way, the lump of doing nothing zinc literally gets eaten away instead of the expensive aluminium on your boat or outboard. That’s why galvanised (zinc dipped) boat trailers turn to white powder before the steel underneath starts to rust. See how high aluminium is and how low titanium is? That’s BAD.

You can reduce the chances of corrosion by applying an anti corrosion grease (lanolin is pretty good. Bit smelly but quite inert to o rings) to the screws shanks & threads, but go easy on it. This will then prevent the salty moisture (the electrolyte) getting between the metals and starting the corrosion process. But it is a bit of a band aid solution. Better to prevent the unintentional battery to start with.

That black coating on the outside of the aluminium bits is anodising. A controlled and purposefully coloured corrosion process that actually prevents further corrosion from the parent metal. If you have ever owned a mag lite, same same. Mag lites also have other more noble metal bits, and they hold up to corrosion pretty well. But if you get a battery leak, the 1st thing to crap itself is the threaded aluminium areas where the anodising has worn off. I have seen the thread completely seize very quickly when volts, electrolyte and dissimilar metals do their thing.

Take a piece of aluminium (anode) a piece of titanium (cathode) and stick them into a lemon (electrolyte), but don’t let them touch. Then measure the voltage being generated with a multimeter between the two dissimilar metals. Congratulations you hav just made a battery. But like all good things it will slowly corrode the aluminium into a white powder, and then your battery goes flat. Now think of all those expensive bits of aluminium on your FX airgun slowly turning into white powder.

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No attack noted. Sorry if I explained in too simple terms.

Hey i’m curious how titanium is anodised. Same process as aluminium? Did a bit of backyard anodising for reasons more for ‘I can do this’ than for practicality.

By the way, you have just reminded me of a bloke I worked with who grabbed (stole) a whole heap of new, aircraft grade titanium bolts from the airline for Boeing’s to, in his words ‘replace those bloody gal dipped fasteners that keep rusting on his boat trailer’ around 12 years ago. I bet those stolen bolts (that probably cost as much as a new trailer) are all that remains of his quest. Hopefully, he kept those bolts to ‘fix’ his new boat trailer after destroying the one he modified. Isn’t material science a wonderful thing?
 
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Anodizing is easy. Easiest metal to do. Heat with a torch to get colors you want. or electro anodize with a power supply or batteries. There is also a "painting" process you can do . I was going to experiment with this process to make a camo pattern or similar. You use a paintbrush or sponge with the +electrode attached to it. Then the -electrode attached to the part. 



Personally, I bought all mine. 5k+ of each screw from the manufacturer. Worked out less expensive that way vs buying them In single and double digits. Especially in USA. They were $6-$13 each. 

You wishing my gun falls apart like your buddies trailer? Saving all those critters I get😉






 
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Thanks for the info. By all means please send those lizards to the other side. We have serious feral animal problems here in Australia so yeah I am all for that. Remember, if it’s feral, it’s in peril.

Just a heads up. You can reduce the chances of metal cancer by applying a dissolved wax into the joins like we do on planes. Products like Dinitrol, Boeshield or Ardrox. Apply as a liquid and when the carrier evaporates, a thin film of wax protects. Keep out the moisture and you keep out the problem.

Happy hunting.

Dave
 
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